@amwldcoin said:
Well...I am out my profit as I insured them for basically what I paid for them. That is due to all the hassles others have had getting the PO to pay up. From here on out my registered packages will be insured for more!
This is an interesting math problem. Registered mail insurance through the PO is expensive.
If you experience a loss one time in 1000, and the average value of that loss is $10,000, then your loss 'expectation' has a value of $10 per shipping event. My recollection of registered mail insurance rates is that it's well north of $50 per $5000 value. Far cheaper to 'self insure' IMO.
Actually, Registered Mail insurance is very cheap. It is only around $22.50 for $5000 worth of insurance. If you insure a package for $25,000, it only costs $53.30 for the insurance.
@amwldcoin said:
Well...I am out my profit as I insured them for basically what I paid for them. That is due to all the hassles others have had getting the PO to pay up. From here on out my registered packages will be insured for more!
This is an interesting math problem. Registered mail insurance through the PO is expensive.
If you experience a loss one time in 1000, and the average value of that loss is $10,000, then your loss 'expectation' has a value of $10 per shipping event. My recollection of registered mail insurance rates is that it's well north of $50 per $5000 value. Far cheaper to 'self insure' IMO.
@kevinj said:
In 25 years, had two registered packages stolen internally.
The Post Office refused to tell me of any investigation or any finds.
It took about 6 months to get a check.
One package was being returned by ANACS, who under insured the package and had to pay the difference.
Kevin
As long as you were made whole, the results of any investigation were of no concern to you.
In the surface, that statement is usually valid. However, in the case of something like this, where there may be a repeat done, then I would disagree.
If the results were "bad employee, but we will keep you on since firing is so difficult", then I would REALLY WANT to know!
If there results were "inconclusive, we won't spend more time on this and we had too many fingers in the cookie jar and no concrete video", then I would DEFINITELY WANT to know that as well.
They don't have to give a name, but I would want to get enough correct information to make informed decisions about my continued risks using their services. FOIA if necessary.
Just go to a different PO. If one is caught stealing RM, it's pretty much automatic termination. Shouldn't be too hard to see who's missing or ask around.
@amwldcoin said:
Well...I am out my profit as I insured them for basically what I paid for them. That is due to all the hassles others have had getting the PO to pay up. From here on out my registered packages will be insured for more!
This is an interesting math problem. Registered mail insurance through the PO is expensive.
If you experience a loss one time in 1000, and the average value of that loss is $10,000, then your loss 'expectation' has a value of $10 per shipping event. My recollection of registered mail insurance rates is that it's well north of $50 per $5000 value. Far cheaper to 'self insure' IMO.
Actually, Registered Mail insurance is very cheap. It is only around $22.50 for $5000 worth of insurance. If you insure a package for $25,000, it only costs $53.30 for the insurance.
Ship and insure is a pain; you have to enter all details on shipping, and join their organization at $125 or so a year; Hugh Wood is an annual fee and no requirement to enter all details before midnight of shipping and they cover first class parcels.
@logger7 said:
Ship and insure is a pain; you have to enter all details on shipping, and join their organization at $125 or so a year; Hugh Wood is an annual fee and no requirement to enter all details before midnight of shipping and they cover first class parcels.
Does Hugh Wood cover bullion? What are their rates for the same coverage that the USPS provides? You'd need to ship more packages than I do to make S and I worthwhile. For me tho, registered is secure enough that I usually declare no value or underdeclare value.
@BAJJERFAN said:
Does Hugh Wood cover bullion? What are their rates for the same coverage that the USPS provides? You'd need to ship more packages than I do to make S and I worthwhile. For me tho, registered is secure enough that I usually declare no value or underdeclare value.
You'd have to inquire with them on their policy since it depends on a number of factors. They do cover bullion. Based on the numbers people have mentioned here, I think insuring just handful of packages through USPS per year could justify the insurance premiums versus the USPS fees. USPS premiums seem relatively high compared to the actual risk of a lost package, so insuring yourself is the best option if you can afford the loss.
Not every post office is the same, so not every facility has a "secure room". My post office has a metal cage (4'x4' appx.) and that is where the registered mail goes. One person has the key to that box and they have to sign for chain of custody when things come and go.
I have never had an issue and I always over insure my packages (as a collector) just in case I do have an issue. I figure it would take me quite a bit of time to find new pieces that appeal to me and that fit my style, so I pay the extra few dollars and give myself some padding and peace of mind.
@BAJJERFAN Hugh Woods has several policies (collector and dealer) that cover coins and bullion when being shipped and their prices are very reasonable. I don't ship enough, so I don't have coverage for that, but it is definitely taking a look into if you use registered mail often.
@BackroadJunkie said:
I just had a registered package delivered to me a week ago.
It was just left at my door. No signature required....
Yikes. They are supposed to ask for an ID.
And get a signature. Tracking said it was delivered, but nothing about a signature.
This is the same post office that was able to misplace a registered package, twice. It is one of the lowest rated post offices in the city. (Maybe it's me. UPS has also left signtature required packages without a signature.)
I've filed complaints before, still get the same sad service. I've never lost anything, though.
In Monroe, IA, USPS open 8a to 12p, 1p to 3p, I watched my registered mail go into a canvas bag, closure string was then secured with a lock. I figured good enough for USPS, good enough for me.
A registered package should never, ever be 'misplaced, lost or stolen' period. It's the whole premise behind this type of shipping...gee, even the 'Hope' diamond was shipped via registered mail and it made it to it's destination. Something is really afoul here and those responsible need to be held accountable. I hope for some reason, maybe heat from the man, your package mysteriously shows up, unannounced.
Most POs require both card ID and combination for access to the Registered Mail safe. If present at your PO, that will identify every person who opened the safe in the week between notice and attempted pick up.
@djm said:
Nobody knows if the package in question even made it back to the PO. The package could have been taken from the truck while the driver was doing his route.
I don't know where you guys get the idea registered packages are locked up. The post offices I've dealt with either have them in an open safe or in a cabinet behind the counter. As stated above anybody has access even the janitor mopping the floor.
They get locked up when counter clerk who received it leaves the counter. They travel to the main branch in locked box.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Not if they were on vacation, out of town on business, notification wasn't left noticeably (ie...was it in mailbox or on the front door which someone using their garage may not notice?), emergency happened with family, etc.
There are actually plenty of valid reasons that it could take 5 days to attempt to get it "after notification". I'm usually johnny-on-the-spot when it comes to getting my packages that I know are coming (met the mail lady outside my garage door yesterday when I was expecting a package I needed to sign for...was watching her go to mailbox row and then went out and surprised her)......however, I have had times where I had to be out of town, or at hospital for someone and didn't go in for a few+ days (gotta get there while open, fight the lines, etc).
Had a PO Box for awhile, but it didn't really make sense to keep it, so I let it go. Was a bigger hassle to get down there for it for everything than it was to just get the packages as they came to me, or get from my annex (PO boxes were in a local PO a few more miles away than my annex).
I have used registered mail a few times... always with success. The system, as described, seems very secure. So obviously, someone has clearly violated the process. I wonder why this particular package was singled out? Since there were two in the delivery....If no external indications, then perhaps weight appealed to the thief. Please let us know what transpires... Cheers, RickO
Re: lack of tracking for registered mail. Pkg shipped from Sarasota and scanned there...and..Tampa....and Boston...arrived PVD 214pm today and, I assume, will be delivered to me tomorrow. Got texts for every step
Friday I received a call from the supervisor at the post office telling me they again could not find the package and I needed to file a claim. She told me it was the 1st registered package she had seen lost during her entire career.
I called the Postal Inspectors and basically went through the same rigamarole. Seems it is not being as aggressively investigated as I was led to believe. Now the case is escalated to consumer affairs(like what good is this going to do). I was also given the number for the Inspector General's office and told maybe a call would help. Might do that Monday.
It's amazing now you have to have an online account with USPS.com to file a claim. Anywho on exactly the 15th day after being mailed(which is the minimum) I filed my claim.
Whoever, being a Postal Service officer or employee, embezzles any letter, postal card, package, bag, or mail, or any article or thing contained therein entrusted to him or which comes into his possession intended to be conveyed by mail, or carried or delivered by any carrier, messenger, agent, or other person employed in any department of the Postal Service, or forwarded through or delivered from any post office or station thereof established by authority of the Postmaster General or of the Postal Service; or steals, abstracts, or removes from any such letter, package, bag, or mail, any article or thing contained therein, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
-----Burton ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Comments
Sssoooo....what did the postal inspectors tell you? Already on to the claim.
They are supposed to contact me in 48-72 hours as of yesterday. If not I am supposed to call back.
Actually, Registered Mail insurance is very cheap. It is only around $22.50 for $5000 worth of insurance. If you insure a package for $25,000, it only costs $53.30 for the insurance.
Just go to a different PO. If one is caught stealing RM, it's pretty much automatic termination. Shouldn't be too hard to see who's missing or ask around.
Ship and insure is about 1/4 of USPS rates.
Ship and insure is a pain; you have to enter all details on shipping, and join their organization at $125 or so a year; Hugh Wood is an annual fee and no requirement to enter all details before midnight of shipping and they cover first class parcels.
Does Hugh Wood cover bullion? What are their rates for the same coverage that the USPS provides? You'd need to ship more packages than I do to make S and I worthwhile. For me tho, registered is secure enough that I usually declare no value or underdeclare value.
I think they are about the same in what they cover. I would like to see a consumer reports style analysis of all the options with collectibles.
I just had a registered package delivered to me a week ago.
It was just left at my door. No signature required....
You should report this! Even be nasty and say you didn't receive the package. It's time to make the Post Office tow the line.
You'd have to inquire with them on their policy since it depends on a number of factors. They do cover bullion. Based on the numbers people have mentioned here, I think insuring just handful of packages through USPS per year could justify the insurance premiums versus the USPS fees. USPS premiums seem relatively high compared to the actual risk of a lost package, so insuring yourself is the best option if you can afford the loss.
IG: DeCourcyCoinsEbay: neilrobertson
"Numismatic categorizations, if left unconstrained, will increase spontaneously over time." -me
Yikes. They are supposed to ask for an ID.
Not every post office is the same, so not every facility has a "secure room". My post office has a metal cage (4'x4' appx.) and that is where the registered mail goes. One person has the key to that box and they have to sign for chain of custody when things come and go.
I have never had an issue and I always over insure my packages (as a collector) just in case I do have an issue. I figure it would take me quite a bit of time to find new pieces that appeal to me and that fit my style, so I pay the extra few dollars and give myself some padding and peace of mind.
@BAJJERFAN Hugh Woods has several policies (collector and dealer) that cover coins and bullion when being shipped and their prices are very reasonable. I don't ship enough, so I don't have coverage for that, but it is definitely taking a look into if you use registered mail often.
And get a signature. Tracking said it was delivered, but nothing about a signature.
This is the same post office that was able to misplace a registered package, twice. It is one of the lowest rated post offices in the city. (Maybe it's me. UPS has also left signtature required packages without a signature.)
I've filed complaints before, still get the same sad service. I've never lost anything, though.
In Monroe, IA, USPS open 8a to 12p, 1p to 3p, I watched my registered mail go into a canvas bag, closure string was then secured with a lock. I figured good enough for USPS, good enough for me.
A registered package should never, ever be 'misplaced, lost or stolen' period. It's the whole premise behind this type of shipping...gee, even the 'Hope' diamond was shipped via registered mail and it made it to it's destination. Something is really afoul here and those responsible need to be held accountable. I hope for some reason, maybe heat from the man, your package mysteriously shows up, unannounced.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
Most POs require both card ID and combination for access to the Registered Mail safe. If present at your PO, that will identify every person who opened the safe in the week between notice and attempted pick up.
The Hope made it - http://postalmuseumblog.si.edu/2012/11/delivering-the-hope-diamond.html
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")
Interesting. Never knew this. Thanks for the link.
They get locked up when counter clerk who received it leaves the counter. They travel to the main branch in locked box.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Five days is a long time for the recipient to go get it after being notified.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Not if they were on vacation, out of town on business, notification wasn't left noticeably (ie...was it in mailbox or on the front door which someone using their garage may not notice?), emergency happened with family, etc.
There are actually plenty of valid reasons that it could take 5 days to attempt to get it "after notification". I'm usually johnny-on-the-spot when it comes to getting my packages that I know are coming (met the mail lady outside my garage door yesterday when I was expecting a package I needed to sign for...was watching her go to mailbox row and then went out and surprised her)......however, I have had times where I had to be out of town, or at hospital for someone and didn't go in for a few+ days (gotta get there while open, fight the lines, etc).
Had a PO Box for awhile, but it didn't really make sense to keep it, so I let it go. Was a bigger hassle to get down there for it for everything than it was to just get the packages as they came to me, or get from my annex (PO boxes were in a local PO a few more miles away than my annex).
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I have used registered mail a few times... always with success. The system, as described, seems very secure. So obviously, someone has clearly violated the process. I wonder why this particular package was singled out? Since there were two in the delivery....If no external indications, then perhaps weight appealed to the thief. Please let us know what transpires... Cheers, RickO
" They travel to the main branch in locked box."
There is a thing called an, "Outside Registered."
It travels unsecured.
Re: lack of tracking for registered mail. Pkg shipped from Sarasota and scanned there...and..Tampa....and Boston...arrived PVD 214pm today and, I assume, will be delivered to me tomorrow. Got texts for every step
Friday I received a call from the supervisor at the post office telling me they again could not find the package and I needed to file a claim. She told me it was the 1st registered package she had seen lost during her entire career.
I called the Postal Inspectors and basically went through the same rigamarole. Seems it is not being as aggressively investigated as I was led to believe. Now the case is escalated to consumer affairs(like what good is this going to do). I was also given the number for the Inspector General's office and told maybe a call would help. Might do that Monday.
It's amazing now you have to have an online account with USPS.com to file a claim. Anywho on exactly the 15th day after being mailed(which is the minimum) I filed my claim.
Question for your PO: Any chance it was picked up by the customer and the PO misplaced the slip he signed before scanning it?
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I saw the report in a Numismatic Crime center, I hope it shows up.
Definitely call the IG's office. This is a case of theft of registered mail.
18 U.S. Code § 1709 - Theft of mail matter by officer or employee (https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1709)
ANA 50 year/Life Member (now "Emeritus")