Given slow grading times, would you PAY MORE (and how much) for a faster tier?

Bochiman · May 9, 2017 9:32PM

So, I continue to see slow grading time complaints.
I have NOT sent anything in in over a year, myself, so I have not been part of the issue. I prefer the fees to NOT go up, but, if there were a payment option that would "guarantee" your coins would be graded in a certain timeframe?

Say, $10/coin at the modern level. $50/coin at the express level.
????

Is there an amount that you would pay and be ok with? And, it would likely mean that coins NOT paying the extra fee would get MORE delayed. Would you be ok with that? Would you only send in with the added payment/speed?

Just wondering out loud on this as, except for getting more graders, which I take is NOT an easy task, there probably isn't much else PCGS can do to better the turnaround times (get more graders/work longer hours/work weekends/stop taking graders to shows/etc).

lkeigwin · May 9, 2017 9:38PM

The grading time trend over 6 months. Wait, make that the stock price.
Lance.

DoubleEagle59 · May 10, 2017 4:25AM

Prices are high enough.

Our Canadian grading fees for the best (in Canada) company (ICCS) is only $12.00 per item for a 2 week service and that $12.00 is in Canadian dollars!!

WaterSport · May 10, 2017 4:39AM

I think the real problem is PCGS needs to update its turn around schedule to reflect a more realistic grading time instead of pretending a majority of coins are done in either 2 weeks or 30 days. Day 63 for me today on economy.

WS

djm · May 10, 2017 4:56AM

@WaterSport said:
I think the real problem is PCGS needs to update its turn around schedule to reflect a more realistic grading time instead of pretending a majority of coins are done in either 2 weeks or 30 days. Day 63 for me today on economy.

WS

The majority of the coins are done in under 30 days. This is just my observation they tend to grade the small orders 1 - 6 coins first so many orders are done quickly. When they average in your 63 day wait time it is makes little difference in the turnaround time.
The best way to fix the problem would be a FIFO queue for each submission level, also making the voucher submissions wait in line with the rest of the submissions for that level. This will never happen as business is a numbers game. It's better to make 1 person wait 63 days than make 10 people wait 35 days.

oih82w8 · May 10, 2017 5:52AM

It's better to make 1 person wait 63 days than make 10 people wait 35 days.

It seems that the one person is normally a regular member on this forum.

As mentioned FIFO should be the practiced method, but there will usually be some "big-wig" who cuts into the line for some form of apparent "special treatment".

dbtunr · May 10, 2017 7:25AM

Here is what the CEO said just last week during the quarterly investor conference call:

With the introduction of the 2017 U.S. coins in January, our operational teams are ready to receive grade and return a record number of U.S. gold and silver eagle[s] submitted to us in the January and February time period.

Nearly half of the more than 500,000 modern coins graded in the quarter, were completed within five weeks of receipt. This expanded capacity and rapid turnaround gave our dealers a competitive edge in distributing the new coin issues and minimize[d] their working capital requirements to do so. This call couple with some many PCGS marketing programs to help differentiate graded coins for dealers made this the most successful modern coin introduction period for PCGS ever.

We also graded a record number of vintage U.S. coins during the quarter, a significance series that while modern coins are very popular with the larger consumer market in the U.S. vintage coins which are pre-1970 have the most appeal to coin collectors. Circulated and uncirculated these coins with the highest market value and historical relevance.

We’ve seen a steady increase in the submission of vintage U.S. coins throughout fiscal 2017, which indicates that the market dynamics are robust and PCGS is the chosen brand for the most valuable U.S. coins. Our significant grading presence at major U.S. coin shows augments our total vintage grading capability and again supports our market leadership in this segment.

KellenCoin · May 10, 2017 9:07AM

I am fine waiting.

ModCrewman · May 10, 2017 9:12AM

I just received grades on day 33 for a Secure economy submission yesterday. 5 other submissions in the pipeline.

clarkbar04 · May 10, 2017 9:24AM

From what I have been reading it is the variety attributions slowing up the process right now.

3/28 econ standard holder with 1 trueview graded and shipped 5/3
3/28 regular submission, secure holder with 1 variety attribution - still waiting

And there's the guys who fall through the cracks and go into the 50s and 60s.. still don't really understand this.

ShadyDave · May 10, 2017 10:08AM

@WaterSport said:
I think the real problem is PCGS needs to update its turn around schedule to reflect a more realistic grading time instead of pretending a majority of coins are done in either 2 weeks or 30 days. Day 63 for me today on economy.

WS

I agree, I'm in the mid 40's (with a lot of others as well) and its pretty annoying that I can't have an idea of when my 9 coin submission will get graded. I'm not asking for much, just a realistic timeframe of when I can expect my submission to be completed. A little communication goes a LONG way.

Bochiman · May 10, 2017 10:18AM

So, I think 1, maybe 2, people have actually answered the question posed......."would you pay MORE to get your items done quicker (with a guarantee)?"
They, like me, are fine waiting at the current prices (ie....no raise in price, please)......

oih82w8 · May 10, 2017 10:22AM

No extra fee for potentially extra time...UNLESS the fee was returned if the suspense was busted.

Wabbit2313 · May 10, 2017 10:36AM

I do pay more. I buy the express level often if I don't want to wait. So yes.

PRIZ430 · May 10, 2017 10:53AM

Why would I pay more?...If the grading service CAN NOT grade and return coins in the expected ADVERTISED time...WHY would I want to reward them with paying higher fees just to do what was originally expected???

Bochiman · May 10, 2017 11:00AM

@PRIZ430 said:
Why would I pay more?...If the grading service CAN NOT grade and return coins in the expected ADVERTISED time...WHY would I want to reward them with paying higher fees just to do what was originally expected???

1) The ADVERTISED time is an estimate. Estimates are just that....not always exact.
2) I mentioned a "guarantee" for the extra expense. That would mean a refund of the "overpayment" if not done in the allotted time.

So, why would you pay more? To get them done in a guaranteed time. Plain & simple.
Else, like I would do, pay the "normal" amount and go with the estimated time....or longer.

neildrobertson · May 10, 2017 11:01AM

Nice try PCGS. You can't trick me into paying more.

dbtunr · May 10, 2017 12:03PM

@Bochiman said:

@PRIZ430 said:
Why would I pay more?...If the grading service CAN NOT grade and return coins in the expected ADVERTISED time...WHY would I want to reward them with paying higher fees just to do what was originally expected???

1) The ADVERTISED time is an estimate. Estimates are just that....not always exact.
2) I mentioned a "guarantee" for the extra expense. That would mean a refund of the "overpayment" if not done in the allotted time.

So, why would you pay more? To get them done in a guaranteed time. Plain & simple.
Else, like I would do, pay the "normal" amount and go with the estimated time....or longer.

If you read the quote from the CEO in my post above, large Modern bulk submitters probably do pay more for faster turnaround and the company patted itself on the back saying their turnaround for those customers was fantastic even though volumes increased. In the companies mind, they are doing exceptionally well with turnaround.

Bochiman · May 10, 2017 12:06PM

I read it. I also know that for these large modern bulk deals, from post PCGS posts, they use a lot of different graders (less experience?) and they just run through them...like SAEs.....

That is what a majority of the people here are complaining about as I believe they are submitting other types of coins.

Bochiman · May 10, 2017 12:07PM

@neildrobertson said:
Nice try PCGS. You can't trick me into paying more.

LOL

I'm not representing, nor employed by, PCGS/CU/etc in any way, shape, or form.
I do hold the stock and I hate to see negative posts about complaints due to submissions though, so I was just wondering what else could be done

DollarAfterDollar · May 10, 2017 12:09PM

Grading fee's are too high already. I much prefer to just blast PCGS for advertising one timetable when another is actually the norm. The people selecting "regular" submissions today and not getting a 12 day turn around are just giving away money.

DIMEMAN · May 10, 2017 12:10PM

Maybe they should stop grading all those non coin things (gold and silver eagles) and just do real coins!

dbtunr · May 10, 2017 12:27PM

@Bochiman said:
I read it. I also know that for these large modern bulk deals, from post PCGS posts, they use a lot of different graders (less experience?) and they just run through them...like SAEs.....

That is what a majority of the people here are complaining about as I believe they are submitting other types of coins.

Everyone keeps assuming the bottleneck is always grading. Many folks touch the coins from delivery, data entry, grading, slabbing, photo, data entry again, packaging, mailing. A large bulk order affects it all and can slow down orders for everyone

keets · May 10, 2017 12:35PM

what Wabbit2313, which means we already have the option available.

Dave99B · May 10, 2017 1:23PM

Not me. I'd like to keep things as cheap as possible. I have no issues waiting, although I'm not a large submitter by any measure ... maybe 10-20 coins per year.

Dave

MICHAELDIXON · May 10, 2017 1:46PM

No

WingedLiberty1957 · May 10, 2017 1:56PM

Last time I sent some coins in Express they took over 40 biz days (2 months)
Economy, for me at least, has been taking over 3 months.
Express is not worth the extra money IMHO.

I think the best strategy is to send everything Economy -- then go on a 3 month vacation -- when you get back your coins should be ready!

Davideo · May 10, 2017 2:17PM

@dbtunr said:
Everyone keeps assuming the bottleneck is always grading. Many folks touch the coins from delivery, data entry, grading, slabbing, photo, data entry again, packaging, mailing. A large bulk order affects it all and can slow down orders for everyone

Agreed that it's important to not overlook other aspects of the process. However, if grading is not the bottleneck then they are doing something seriously wrong. The labor pool for graders is minuscule. The labor pool for everything else you mentioned is enormous and more flexible.

In fact, I would guess that the lack of flexibility with grading labor is a large part of the difficulty. During heavy periods they can hire temps for just about everything but grading. They can't realistically hire temp graders just for 5 weeks. My assumption is that identifying and training good graders is a difficult process.

To answer the question, unless the "guaranteed" timeline fee is very cheap (like $5), I would not pay for it.

coinkat · May 10, 2017 3:23PM

It is not about speed, it's about providing the best opinion possible. And sometimes that takes more time based on the demand seeking the opinion.

Collecting is not about instant gratification all the time.

dbldie55 · May 10, 2017 3:40PM

@Davideo said:

In fact, I would guess that the lack of flexibility with grading labor is a large part of the difficulty. During heavy periods they can hire temps for just about everything but grading. They can't realistically hire temp graders just for 5 weeks. My assumption is that identifying and training good graders is a difficult process.

Not sure how they work this now, but they did this in the past. The ones I know who did this work are all former full time graders.

Manorcourtman · May 10, 2017 5:13PM

I would pay more if PCGS guaranteed there service times. I think that would be good for PCGS.......put some pressure on them to perform. The real Business world has plenty of deadlines that are promised and met on a daily basis. It drives many of us NUTS that our coins are delayed sometimes multiple weeks even months for no apparent reason. Poor communication and poor service are not good for business. Regular service times have turned into Economy times and Economy times have to be measured in seasons now in some cases.

Desert Moon · May 10, 2017 6:06PM

Slow grading times? I had a group of 7 submitted on the Regular service and they were graded and shipped in 15 buisness days. What slow times? I seem to never experience them................

Best, SH

Davideo · May 10, 2017 6:07PM

@dbldie55 said:

@Davideo said:

In fact, I would guess that the lack of flexibility with grading labor is a large part of the difficulty. During heavy periods they can hire temps for just about everything but grading. They can't realistically hire temp graders just for 5 weeks. My assumption is that identifying and training good graders is a difficult process.

Not sure how they work this now, but they did this in the past. The ones I know who did this work are all former full time graders.

Ah, that makes sense if they were former graders. Interesting. I was thinking more like regular temps to do data entry, shipping, etc.

logger7 · May 10, 2017 7:15PM

No, it is an insult to the customer to have to pay more for what have been done in the first place. Though I prefer the PCGS slab, NGC surpasses its competitor in a number of areas like customer service and turn around times, where the job gets done like clockwork and customer service is frank and no-nonsense. They should just bring up to snuff their services at current pricing.

ricko · May 11, 2017 7:34AM

Most businesses have scheduled process times and take orders in compliance with that schedule. When I was in business, we did charge an additional fee for expedited delivery.....and it was not uncommon to get such an order. My business was aerospace electronics and while production schedules were quoted and in most cases complied with, on occasion, issues will arise that affect schedules. These are often beyond the control of the business and then we would struggle to get back on schedule. So, such a business model (expedited process for a fee) certainly has precedence in the business world. Cheers, RickO

Cougar1978 · May 11, 2017 4:43PM

No - it's too big an unfavorable bump in cost. I write off grading costs to expense. So want keep to a minimum and go with least expensive tier.

basetsb · May 11, 2017 6:24PM

If there's an express service and the coins can get graded at the express speed, then it means that any coin submitted to the company could theoretically get graded that quickly. All that happens is that your coins gets moved to the front of the line, but it arrives at the same time and takes the same amount of time for someone to look at it and apply a grade/slab it/etc.

The whole 'pay more to have your coin graded quicker' is a money grabbing scheme that is employed by many companies that have an 'express' service. Why should someone have to pay more to have you do something that you've proven can be done in a timely manner? You are basically bribing the company to 'expedite' your coin, when it should be processed at that speed by default.

It's a shame, but any way to make a dime.

Given slow grading times, would you PAY MORE (and how much) for a faster tier?

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