Adding VAM designation to certification (1921 P$1 VAM 1H)

ChrisH821 · April 14, 2017 2:13PM

I just picked up this unattributed VAM 1H, what is the best way to get the designation added to the cert?
Also there doesn't seem to be much price info on these, I see one 63 on heritage that sold pretty high and a current 64 for sale on ebay for about $1500 with a bunch of watchers but no buyer, any idea what a realistic value is on these?
Here are the pics, sorry some are a little out of focus but they get the job done.

CascadeChris · April 14, 2017 3:36PM

PM @messydesk he can help you out.

coindeuce · April 14, 2017 5:48PM

Submit to PCGS, selecting "Reholder" AND "Other" in the Service Level section and hand write Quarterly Special on the Other line. Below, on the item line, indicate the Variety claimed and also check the box for Variety Attribution. Indicate the cert. number of current holder (last seven or eight digits depending on generation of holder). The current Quarterly Special for Collector's Club members is half price on Variety Attributions, or $9 per coin (+ $12 for reholder)

messydesk · April 14, 2017 5:56PM

@coindeuce said:
Submit to PCGS, selecting "Reholder" AND "Other" in the Service Level section and hand write Quarterly Special on the Other line. Below, on the item line, indicate the Variety claimed and also check the box for Variety Attribution. ...

The thing is, they don't attribute that variety. PM me if you're interested in an alternative.

coindeuce · April 14, 2017 8:20PM

@messydesk said:

@coindeuce said:
Submit to PCGS, selecting "Reholder" AND "Other" in the Service Level section and hand write Quarterly Special on the Other line. Below, on the item line, indicate the Variety claimed and also check the box for Variety Attribution. ...

The thing is, they don't attribute that variety. PM me if you're interested in an alternative.

I guess I coulda looked at the PCGS Vams list before typing furiously.

Go VSS ! or maybe ANACS ?

ChrisH821 · April 14, 2017 11:14PM

@coindeuce said:
Submit to PCGS, selecting "Reholder" AND "Other" in the Service Level section and hand write Quarterly Special on the Other line. Below, on the item line, indicate the Variety claimed and also check the box for Variety Attribution. Indicate the cert. number of current holder (last seven or eight digits depending on generation of holder). The current Quarterly Special for Collector's Club members is half price on Variety Attributions, or $9 per coin (+ $12 for reholder)

Thanks for the info on that!

@messydesk said:

@coindeuce said:
Submit to PCGS, selecting "Reholder" AND "Other" in the Service Level section and hand write Quarterly Special on the Other line. Below, on the item line, indicate the Variety claimed and also check the box for Variety Attribution. ...

The thing is, they don't attribute that variety. PM me if you're interested in an alternative.

It's in the price guide though, coin 518800.

coindeuce · April 15, 2017 7:57AM

If it is in the price guide with a PCGS coin number assigned to the specific VAM, then they should attribute it on the holder.
It appears that many varieties attributable by PCGS are not conspicuously advertised. I just went through the same situation with a 1865 2¢ DDO that is listed in CPG 6th Ed. Vol.1, which is not designated as a resource yet on the variety attribution guide page. Another forum member pointed out that it does have a PCGS coin number assigned to the variety.

coindeuce · April 15, 2017 10:17AM

"The way I see it, PCGS ignores these types of "varieties" for obvious reasons.
Polishing lines qualify for a variety....... sure, sounds reasonable and not a stretch at all."

Obviously PCGS has not ignored the variety, since they have assigned it a coin number. And since Leroy Van Allen assigned the VAM number initially, they have little reason to ignore it.

ChrisH821 · April 15, 2017 10:28AM

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
They do indeed ignore and do not certify many of these VAM "varieties"........... as should other serious numismatics. Seriously, die polishing lines qualifying for its own variety designation? A die clash error coin qualifying for variety attribution? A die gouge?

Not in my world, not ever.

The significance of these die polishing lines is not the fact that they are "just there". The die characteristics of VAM 1H directly link a coin to the dies that were used to strike just a very small handfull of proofs before being retired to business strike use. If you don't think that is cool then I guess there is no convincing you otherwise.

coindeuce · April 15, 2017 10:55AM

Obviously CAMC, you have the viewpoint that your enjoyment of the hobby is more important than anyone else's. How about considering the adage "Live and let live" I suspect that if John Roberts of ANACS or Ryan Moretti of PCGS or even Leroy Van Allen were to witness your remarks here, they would simply do a firm face palm and sigh.
And furthermore, messydesk and I agreed via PM discussion that the updating of such variety listings at PCGS is a work in progress that may not have high priority, but it is going to continue to advance whether you care about it or not.
Who appointed you as judge of what constitutes a serious numismatist ?

ChrisH821 · April 15, 2017 10:55AM

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
It, scribbly scratches, gouges etc may be cool but, qualifying them, as actual varieties on coins that aren't even DD or anything else, deviates from the entire rest of the universe of the field and the huge mess of similar attributions for a potential Morgan or PD collector to wade thru serves well to keep interested/devoted groups nice and small and these coins' market values far less than common copper pennies in so very many cases.

So, I'll simply keep buying and worry not with such trifling attributions.

Note, messydesk affirmed PCGS does not attribute this variety. My guess is at some point, they decided enough is enough.

So no, you're not going to convince me in the least and trying to do so may appear to you as futile a mission, from your chair, as trying to teach a pig to sing. Amazingly enough from my chair, it's...........

So basically you just came in here to trash on VAM collectors, that's fine.

oih82w8 · April 15, 2017 11:10AM

@messydesk said:
The thing is, they don't attribute that variety. PM me if you're interested in an alternative.

Here are the varieties that PCGS recognizes and will attribute;

1921 $1 VAM 1A Rev Field Break Peace
1921 $1 VAM 1F Polishing Lines Peace
1921 $1 VAM 1H Polishing Lines Peace
1921 $1 Peace VAM 3 Line Thru L

http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/7356

specifically,

http://www.pcgscoinfacts.com/Coin/Detail/518800

coindeuce · April 15, 2017 11:39AM

CAMC you still haven't answered my question. Just more deflection.

ChrisH821 · April 15, 2017 11:40AM

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
If what you posted is fact, that makes 4 out of 34-ish VAM's for that 1921 P, recognized by PCGS and again, DIE POLISH LINES.
(...)

http://www.vamworld.com/1921-P+Peace+VAMs

Comical in a sad way.

Apparently you are missing the part where it says "SATIN PROOF DIES", that is the importance here, not just die polish lines. Take you belittling comments and insults out of here. I'll also point out that it is in the Elite 30 VAM registry set, take a look, apparently someone thinks it's a pretty big deal.

CascadeChris · April 15, 2017 11:46AM

@CoinsAndMoreCoins, the very root and heart of VAMming is not to just list "cool" varieties but to catalogue every known die pairing. And we do that by using unique die markers to identify the dies used. A vast majority of them are mundane with small feature that are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things aside the fact that they identify which dies were used to strike a specific coin. That's VAMming. Some do have way cool clashes or gouges or naked eye features that make them highly desirable but most features are miniscule and only used to identify the dies. That's what a vam is, an identified die pairing. Then you have dlfearuees that develop in a dies life that are pronounced and require an advanced listing of a known die pair.

It's quite simple and fun. You seem to have some vendetta against VAMming. If you don't like it that's fine. But please lay off of demeaning them and those that study or collect them. Thanks

RogerB · April 15, 2017 1:20PM

Dies used for 1921 Proof Peace dollars were not given any special treatment....They were merely used in a medal press for a few impressions. Some were then sandblasted; others were not (and are called 'satin').

messydesk · April 15, 2017 6:54PM

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

Note, messydesk affirmed PCGS does not attribute this variety. My guess is at some point, they decided enough is enough.

And then someone pointed out to me that there was a coin number for it, so I will stand corrected. They must have decided there was demand for it and it wasn't difficult to attribute.

messydesk · April 15, 2017 8:14PM

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
I'll go look whenever I get real bored and see if I can find the list of which ones the host does indeed acknowledge as valid. If they do this one, it appears to me to be an act of placating benevolence.

Meanwhile, you'll just troll message boards. Got it.

coindeuce · April 15, 2017 9:55PM

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
I'll go look whenever I get real bored and see if I can find the list of which ones the host does indeed acknowledge as valid. If they do this one, it appears to me to be an act of placating benevolence.

For just this 1921P, I think we arrived upon 4 of 34 acknowledged and I am with virtually zero inclination or concern to go verify.

If the topic is such a drag on your superior mindset of the hobby, why are you devoting so much time and bloviating to this thread ? Obviously you're just a very unhappy soul that finds self gratification in being a nattering nabob of negativity.

ChrisH821 · April 16, 2017 9:48AM

This thread was never about whether the VAM 1H a proof and no, it is not. It was simply about how to get the attribution added to the cert and that was answered thoroughly by @coindeuce .

We all have opinions and at this point we are just beating a dead horse, can't we just let this die?

coindeuce · April 16, 2017 10:03AM

ChrisH821, most of us proponents of VAM collecting in this thread realize what CAMC's posts are about. They're nothing more than a thinly veiled bashing of our host. The guy is lone wolf. Let him keep howling at the moon.

coindeuce · April 16, 2017 10:31AM

CAMC, obviously your desperate mission to hijack the OP's thread is all that is necessary to see through you. At the very least, totally offensive netiquette. The OP's question was answered within the first few responses, yet you felt obsessed with hijacking the topic with your

RogerB · April 16, 2017 10:50AM

.> @CoinsAndMoreCoins said:

@RogerB said:
Dies used for 1921 Proof Peace dollars were not given any special treatment....They were merely used in a medal press for a few impressions. Some were then sandblasted; others were not (and are called 'satin').

Thank you, Roger even though this does not answer the simple question, 'is the 1-H coin a proof?'

If the question is about the coin pictured in the first post, it is not a proof.

coindeuce · April 16, 2017 11:01AM

The OP never made any inference that his coin is a Proof. So the thread hijacker's question is totally irrelevant. PCGS has a coin number assigned to this minor variety, which was derived from Leroy Van Allen's confirmation. The OP got his question answered in this regard, so everything beyond that was off topic and undeserved.

garrynot · April 16, 2017 11:06AM

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
1921-P Peace VAM-1H
1921-P Peace VAM-1H Satin Proof Dies with Polishing Lines

1H I 1 · Aa (Satin Proof Dies with Polishing Lines) I-4 R-5
Obverse I 1– Fine polishing lines around OD WE, across neck and left and right fields. Die markers– Numerous tight elliptical polishing lines below jaw and just below bottom of hair bun. Die used for satin proofs and business strikes.
Reverse Aa– Fine polishing lines above and below ONE, around eagle’s feet, thru S OF AM and below last A in AMERICA. Die markers– Numerous horizontal die polishing lines between last S in STATES and O in OF, single light polishing line at bottom inside of R in AMERICA. Die chip at top end of fourth ray down below eagle’s tail feathers. Die used for satin proofs and business strikes.

The way I see it, PCGS ignores these types of "varieties" for obvious reasons.

Polishing lines qualify for a variety....... sure, sounds reasonable and not a stretch at all.

@CoinsAndMoreCoins said:
1921-P Peace VAM-1H
1921-P Peace VAM-1H Satin Proof Dies with Polishing Lines

The answer to whether VAM 1H is a proof or not is in your own post.

Adding VAM designation to certification (1921 P$1 VAM 1H)

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