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Did I get shilled? Weird bid activity?

Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
edited April 7, 2017 6:24PM in U.S. Coin Forum

I understand what shill bids are. I didn't always understand how you guys figured things out so I did some digging after I was out bid then it was immediately retracted. It looks like bidder only bids with this seller. And doesn't ever win? They max bid $490 which I guess is "nuclear" then backed off. I ended up winning after my bid was driven up.
Does the info in pics seem suspicious?

I had contacted the seller with a question. When I got his response today I bid again. No one had bid against me but I doubled up in case I missed the auction end. Minutes after I doubled up I was up bid then over bid. It was retracted and they never tried again.

Comments

  • DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Sure sounds fishy.

  • UnclePennyBagsUnclePennyBags Posts: 327 ✭✭✭

    Yeah that sure does look like a second account or friend inflating a bid on you.... Not sure what the recourse will be if eBay can prove it but fishy for sure!!!!

    Successful trades.... MichaelDixon,

  • Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    After looking at bid times it's maybe possible bidder meant to bid $49 after $43 didn't work. They Still would have seen my max bid after $490 was entered. And they went $4.69 under my high bid ultimately.

  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭

    use this website for all ebay bidding

    www.gixen.com

    no need to "show anyone your hand"

    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭

    We recently had an auction where several bidders were putting in high bids, then immediately retracting them.

    Seemed like they were feeling out the resistance point on the item. It was not shilling on our part and we sent them messages through eBay telling them that they would be banned from bidding if they had any further bids followed by retractions.

    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

    For a large selection of U.S. Coins & Currency, visit The Reeded Edge's online webstore at the link below.

    The Reeded Edge
  • sparky64sparky64 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2017 6:35PM

    I haven't bought from eBay in forever so I'm not up to speed on the bidding policies BUT that scenario looks funky to me.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks ok. Seems that he intended to bid $49 and put in $490.

  • sparky64sparky64 Posts: 7,044 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Coinstartled said:
    Looks ok. Seems that he intended to bid $49 and put in $490.

    That certainly seems likely too.

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

  • AmazonXAmazonX Posts: 680 ✭✭✭✭

    @ThoseBackPages said:
    use this website for all ebay bidding

    www.gixen.com

    no need to "show anyone your hand"

    Is this site any good?

  • logger7logger7 Posts: 9,022 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Here is another site to do ebay analysis: http://www.watchcount.com/

  • gtstanggtstang Posts: 1,778 ✭✭✭✭✭

    You got shilled. Look at the times he bid. When he put $490 in, he knew your max bid was $66 which is why he retracted and then put $65 in. I would contact the seller and tell them you're not comfortable with the auction and will not pay and plan on contacting ebay about it.

  • ThoseBackPagesThoseBackPages Posts: 4,871 ✭✭

    @AmazonX said:

    @ThoseBackPages said:
    use this website for all ebay bidding

    www.gixen.com

    no need to "show anyone your hand"

    Is this site any good?

    absolutely. it's WELL worth the $6 a year (there is a free version as well). Ive been a "paying member" for at least 3 years and using it longer then that

    Big Fan of: HOF Post War RC, Graded RCs
    WTB: PSA 1 - PSA 3 Centered, High Eye Appeal 1950's Mantle
  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    It could be a bogus bid, Richie. Bidder though has only 2 retractions in 6 months and no other bids for that seller (or any other) in 30 days.

    If you are concerned that you overpaid, Aspie, see what the sellers return policy is.

  • FallGuyFallGuy Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    Unless I am misreading the bid history, the other bidder placed a bid for $65 after retracting the $490 bid. To me that indicates the other bidder used the knowledge gained to drive up the final price without outbidding you. Their final bid of $4.69 under may have been to avoid making the shilling blatantly obvious.

    Soooo, assuming I am not missing something, it was either a deliberate "jerk move" or you were the victim of a shill bidder. And either way, not okay.

  • Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @FallGuy said:
    Unless I am misreading the bid history, the other bidder placed a bid for $65 after retracting the $490 bid. To me that indicates the other bidder used the knowledge gained to drive up the final price without outbidding you. Their final bid of $4.69 under may have been to avoid making the shilling blatantly obvious.

    Soooo, assuming I am not missing something, it was either a deliberate "jerk move" or you were the victim of a shill bidder. And either way, not okay.

    Yes this. What you said exactly!
    I usually wait until last 4 seconds but last week I forgot and lost. So I put in a "Doubled marker bid" just in case. ($69.96)
    The seller claims this coin IS the coneca ddo #1. If it isn't we will have problem. If the die gouge is on the forehead I'll be ok. I would have gone to $100 anyway, but it just seemed weird with the retraction and close underbid.

  • Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited April 7, 2017 7:34PM

    @Coinstartled said:
    It could be a bogus bid, Richie. Bidder though has only 2 retractions in 6 months and no other bids for that seller (or any other) in 30 days.

    If you are concerned that you overpaid, Aspie, see what the sellers return policy is.

    The only seller this bidder ever bids with IS the same seller. The bidder placed two retractions with same seller. 0 feedback. No purchases...

  • FallGuyFallGuy Posts: 207 ✭✭✭

    I sure hope it's the coneca variety you seek. That would be a nice way of redeeming the situation.

    In my view, the other bidder's last bid served the sole purpose of jacking up the final price on your coin. I have no idea what, if anything can be done about it but in the future if I were you I would be very careful when bidding on this seller's auctions.

    Best of luck to you!

  • Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @gtstang said:
    You got shilled. Look at the times he bid. When he put $490 in, he knew your max bid was $66 which is why he retracted and then put $65 in. I would contact the seller and tell them you're not comfortable with the auction and will not pay and plan on contacting ebay about it.

    I already paid, with ebucks too. I need the coin, if it actually is the 05 ddo cherry pickers variety.

    I sometimes misinterpret things in life so I wanted the opinions of fellow members here. Before I contact the seller or eBay.

    Side note question
    Do eBay bucks refunds go back in bucks balance? If it is not legit...

  • CoinstartledCoinstartled Posts: 10,135 ✭✭✭✭✭

    How do you know that both retractions were with the same seller? That is a six month retraction total. If both were with the same seller, that greatly strengthens your case.

  • rte592rte592 Posts: 1,888 ✭✭✭✭✭

    yes it looks like you did....WAY too convenient.
    I would contact the seller and complain to see what the reaction is.
    If nothing else have the seller relist the item and start again bidding at the end of the auction.

  • TopographicOceansTopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭

    It's called Bid Shielding and is against eBay rules.

    The purpose is to find out what the competitions maximum bid is by placing an ultra high bid and then canceling it. He can see the other bidder's max bid and comeback and bid again if they want to.

  • lavalava Posts: 3,286 ✭✭✭

    @TopographicOceans said:
    It's called Bid Shielding and is against eBay rules.

    The purpose is to find out what the competitions maximum bid is by placing an ultra high bid and then canceling it. He can see the other bidder's max bid and comeback and bid again if they want to.

    But here they didn't come back, so it looks like a shill bid as the OP feared.

    I brake for ear bars.
  • CoinZipCoinZip Posts: 3,253 ✭✭✭

    I've never been a fan of the proxy bidding system.

    Coin Club Benefit auctions ..... View the Lots

  • rickoricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Looks like a shill..... You should report it to get it on the record anyway. On the rare occasions that I bid on ebay, I snipe.... after initial bid I just wait..... and then, (if I don't forget) I put in a nuclear bid with around 4 seconds to go.... Always works. Cheers, RickO

  • Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    @Shortgapbob said:
    We recently had an auction where several bidders were putting in high bids, then immediately retracting them.

    Seemed like they were feeling out the resistance point on the item. It was not shilling on our part and we sent them messages through eBay telling them that they would be banned from bidding if they had any further bids followed by retractions.

    When this happens on items I sell, the bidder is immediately added to the block list.

  • Aspie_RoccoAspie_Rocco Posts: 3,663 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2018 8:30AM

    I remembered this thread when I was shilled again recently. I thought of this old thread. This time I let the coin go after being outbid.

    Now I don’t even enter a serious bid until the last few seconds

    Happy ending... the 2005 shill was THE ddo, and it’s super hard to find. Here’s the true view or Pcgs pic. For you fellow hunters... the diagnostic give away is the die gouge “pimple” on the top forehead of Tom’s profile.

  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2018 11:07PM

    Nice color on that buffalo nickel :)

    Sorry you got shilled. A good snipe service can help you there.

  • JeffersonFrogJeffersonFrog Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited September 28, 2018 6:52AM

    Another possibility, maybe even probability.

    You put both of your bids in before r^^m placed his first bid. r^^m saw this:

    a^^o (aspie_rocco): $39
    a^^o (aspie_rocco): $39

    I believe it's been discussed here before, but this kind of bidding - while understandable - drives others to drive up your price - with little risk.

    His first bid was $40. Then $43. $49 would be a reasonable next bump. However, if he did hit $490 (the 9 and 0 are together on the keyboard), he would of seen your $66, hence the $65 bid.

    Just something to note - it you stack your bids in an effort to "make sure" you have the best chance of winning, others may adopt the, "I'm not going to let them get a bargain, if I can't win it I'll at least drive the price up" sentiment.

    It could be a shill, but it seems unlikely given the only 3 bids he has in the last 30 days were on this item. Lot of trouble to go to for $30.

    Regardless, I believe the "wait to the last minute" and/or sniping advice stated by others is a good way to avoid this happening again.

    If we were all the same, the world would be an incredibly boring place.

    Tommy

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