USPS issue, need some advice.
Rob85635
Posts: 1,230 ✭✭✭
I have been selling half dollars on Ebay for a while. Nothing expensive but stuff I have excess of, modern stuff. Anyway I tape the two halves I sell to the packing slip after putting them in 2x2's. I ship in a regular letter envelope and have had no issues until today. They have been charging me the cost of a stamp, an additional ounce, and they said it cannot go through a machine because it has coins in it so I pay another I think it is one ounce charge. In total it is either 90 or 91 cents.
I have done this at two different post offices with no issue. All of a sudden today the guy tells me I have to pay parcel rate. I explained I have been doing this for a while and all the tellers were told I was sending two coins. He then replied that someone made a mistake, he checked with some other guy and he also said it needs to go parcel. So now instead of paying less than a dollar they are charging me $2.67 (if i recall correctly).
Has this happened to anyone else? For those who sell and ship coins does this sound right and how do you send them? I have now taken down my auction for the remaining lots I had. I was making about $2.00 per transaction which is not a lot but the letter I sent today has resulted in me losing money.
Any tips or advice would be appreciated.
Comments
Never tell what you send. It's not flammable, explosive, etc.
The very first time I did it they could feel it had something in it so they asked. I told them two coins and they said ok and charged me the less than a dollar rate. I am not going to lie and they have never had an issue with it until today. The only reason I take it in is because one teller there told me it has to be stamped as non machinable so I have to go in to do it and because it is non machinable i have to pay that third ounce price that brings it up to almost a dollar. All of this I have no problem with, it is the sudden change and price increase that is bothering me.
I would go to another post office and see what happens.
Box of 20
One more time, never tell the USPS the contents of your package.
IF there is value in the package, a typical label application is to apply the label at 45 degrees relative to the package.
Alert, Alert, Alert.
I've seen it, been there, done that.
If you are shipping coins that are in 2x2 cardboard holders and then placing them in business envelopes for shipping then you have been awfully fortunate to not have had a damaged or lost shipment along the way.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Yes, I pay the higher rate always. non-machinable rate or whatever they call it. I also can't believe your coins have made it through those machines!
@Rob85635
Have you tried using more paper around them. I used to sell PDS Susan B Anthony sets exactly the same way. I used a few pieces of paper around the coins, like a fat letter. To get past the rules. Just make sure it's not too thick. There is a gauge thing they have to check. About 4 thick or 6 thin sheets of paper around your coins and invoice.
Cheap cards with envelopes in bulk, like birthday card style are great too
Also be warned,
Shipping with no tracking will ruin top seller status as far as I know. I do most everything first class for 2.67 now. Comes with tracking.
I pay 10% fees with no store.
https://www.autismforums.com/media/albums/acrylic-colors-by-rocco.291/
Many of you may not be reading my initial or second post correctly. I pay EXTRA so they do not go through the machine. No, not using 2x2 cardboard, I am using plastic flips taped to the middle of the packing slip. And ... again... I didn't tell them what was in it, they asked because they could feel it was different than a regular letter.
Thank you for this comment. I have not tried putting more paper around it. Perhaps I need to put my auction back up and not offer free shipping but competitors are selling the same product for about the same price as I was and I have no idea how they make any money, they cannot be using the first class price of $2.67 to sell two modern NIFC Modern half dollars with fees, shipping, etc. for about $4.00 like I was.
Don't worry about lying, in this business it is called story telling. That makes it ok.
Cool, , look what I just googled. It pertains to exactly this topic but addresses coins the thickness of a nickel and smaller. It won't help me but this might help others. Sounds like they made a ruling just this year that says if done correctly you can mail coins in a letter envelope. Here is the link followed by the ruling from the USPS pe.usps.com/text/csr/PS-328.htm
Customer Support Ruling
Return to Full list
Small Flat Odd-Shaped Items in Envelopes at Automation Letter Prices
UPDATED January 2017
PS-328 (201.3.10)
This Customer Support Ruling (CSR) describes the preparation of letter-size automation compatible envelopes that contain coins, tokens, or similar small flat odd-shaped items. This ruling does not pertain to items thicker than a U.S. nickel.
Subject to Domestic Mail Manual (DMM®) standards for automation, small flat odd-shaped items are permitted in automation-compatible letter-size envelopes when they are firmly affixed to a component in the mailpiece and wrapped within the contents so that the contour of the mailpiece is streamlined.
In addition, small flat odd-shaped items prepared in envelopes may be mailed at automation letter prices if the item is firmly affixed to one of the components and the mailpiece is prepared under the following conditions:
Sufficient additional material such as letters, response cards, envelopes, or advertising matter is included in the envelope to ensure that the mailpiece is streamlined for automated processing. When a closed-panel window envelope is used and the item is visible through the window, a second wrapping may be used to cover the item. This second covering is in addition to the window panel material and may be made of cellophane or a similar see-through substance. The mailpiece must have sufficient additional contents that the entire mailpiece remains streamlined for automation processing.The effect of including additional material or coverings to streamline the mailpiece meets the intent of wrapping the item within the contents. Small flat odd-shaped items cannot be placed in a position that would obscure the address or barcode.
When any envelope contains loose coins, tokens or similar small flat odd-shaped items that are not affixed to a component within or if the inclusion of such items results in the mailpiece not being streamlined, the mailpiece does not qualify for automation letter prices. It may be mailed, but is subject to the nonmachinable surcharge for First-Class Mail letters or the nonmachinable prices for USPS Marketing Mail letters.
(signed)
Sharon Daniel
Manager
Mailing Standards
Headquarters, US Postal Service
Washington, DC 20260-3436
a possible step might be to try a piece of thin cardboard. cut holes, place coins or coins-in-flips in the holes and mail.
Purchase bubble mailers and consider selling in lots of at least two. Generate you mailing label thru eBay ...cost is $2.61 for 1-4 oz items, with tracking included. ( I get my bubble mailers free from eBay....one of the perks for being a top rated seller)
Ahhhh...what he said.
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buy bulk bubble mailers from Polycyberusa on eBay for the equiv. of 6 cents per mailer in a shipment of 500. It's like $30 and lasts forever. Stick a stamp or two on the bubble mailer and now for the same price you have a secure, delivered package with no issue. Problem solved.. AND you don't have to go be badgered by the PO employees
Happy selling,
BN.
Thanks, I will go there now. By weight, the envelope, coins, flips and packing slip weigh between 1 and 2 ounces, so 2 stamps? And I can just throw it in the mail? Thanks.
sell six half dollars at a time and ship them in a bubble wrap envelope for under $3 printing your labels with paypal or ebay. This will bring your per coin shipping fee down to less than .50 per coin.
Reckless faith in the dollar's strength is reckless. Tariff proposals have demonstrated this.
I'd put it differently. The USPS has the right to know what's being shipped isn't prohibited or if it needs to be marked (fragile, hazardous, liquid, perishable). They don't need to know any more specifics. I wouldn't ever say the actual contents, and would just confirm it's safe/allowable to mail. If they ever really pushed I'd just say they're metal parts.
I received a raw coin once in a 4x6 bubble mailer with a Forever stamp and I got a Postage Due notice in my mail box.
I paid it and notified the seller.
He said he's been doing this for years without a problem.
He sent me a link to the USPS definition of 1st class mail and he was correct.
there are many different forms of first class mail. A bubble mailer is considered a thick envelope and requires more than a couple of stamps. When using on-line shipping a bubble envelope label starts at $2.61.
Reckless faith in the dollar's strength is reckless. Tariff proposals have demonstrated this.
Quit cheapin out and send the correct way. Part of the Cost of doing business and shipping the right way. I agree with above, really surprised you hadn't had more issues. I hate costs associated with selling as well, but again. part of business.
Seller is taking a lot of chances; and on ebay you are going to get buyers who deny they got it even if they did. Without tracking too you are going to have problems.
How so?
Anyone with a store can get the free shipping supplies every quarter.
http://stores.ebay.com/ebay-Shipping-Supplies
Free shipping supplies. Typical is $25 coupon, so you can get 100 free bubbles, depending on size, or may have to pay a little if you want LARGE ones, and they can always be neatly cut in half to double the quantity.
I've gotten plenty of bubble mailers with stamps on them, so I'm sure it's fine.
I've NEVER been notified of this when I had a store. Is that something new? I'm going to have to reopen my store if that's the case.... How do I find this?
ebay store owners periodically get the $25 coupon to be used for shipping supplies.
Reckless faith in the dollar's strength is reckless. Tariff proposals have demonstrated this.
.
.49 under 1oz with card stock thick paper. cut into 1/3 from full sheet folded in half.
But there's no tracking on these, is there?
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
I am well aware of the risks of not having tracking numbers. I decided before I listed these coins that if anyone said they didn't get them I would simply refund the $4.00. I have yet to have a problem but eventually I am sure I will, but I find the vast majority of people are honest. I decided it was easier to take the risk and refund the money than have to charge $2.67 shipping and not sell these small lots. This was a simple and small bulk listing that nets me a few bucks per transaction and allows me to get some BU coins at a very reasonable price to someone who wants them all the while thinning out stuff I don't want. I created this post to get some advice and ideas on how to handle this issue that came up, but as posts often do people take the conversation in different directions. This can be good and bad but so far I am learning a lot. I have never sold ebay lots of this low a value so I was trying to do it on the cheap for all involved.
i do advise if you are going to put 2 2x2 in an envelope, and i prefer the 3.6x6.5 envelopes, not the long ones, to allow it to bend in the middle by not putting the 2x2 right next to each other in the middle. 80pk $1 for security envelopes.
whenever postal clerks have checked my envelopes, they usually bend them by the middle, sometimes every now n then they try to stick me with the .70 or .91 cent rates or something to that effect. depends on weights and flexibility.
i agree it is a pretty good way to get out some low dollar stock. from a percentage point of fees, it is pretty steep, unless the item is like $8-15 but the under $4 are rough if a seller pays shipping, even at .49.
the pp minimum .30 stings. so after all the fees and a non store, it is usually $1 in fees just about which can be 25, 33% or even higher. i figured the breaking point is $2.5, depending on what i'm selling.
some foreign coins i can get for .05-.15, this is not much of a big deal but everyone else is making a nice chunk, percentage-wise.
i do recommend that card stock, like i posted above. i actually wouldn't mind going a bit thicker one this batch runs out. i think it is probably 5-8 sheets thick, and then folded, so double that.
i also ran the numbers to try and justify a store, just to get the 250 listings but a person needs to sell hundreds each month, at least, in order to justify going after the 4% difference. although, i did read something about non TRS and non stores getting a big hit to fees coming this spring some time, so the low dollar ventures will take a bigger hit. will have to adjust accordingly at that time.
.
I must've been in the "do not sent to" list for years, then.
No there's not. The OP does not seem to care about that, though.
USPS is only protecting themselves by charging extra...it might be a deterrent for you to do it again and if your envelope jams up the sorting process at the distribution centers, it creates 'downtime' and somebody has to fix it, so it's better for the clerk to divert your envelope which requires special handling and more cost.
I detested e-Bay sellers who would rather 'pocket' .90 of the shipping paid in order to have a half decent 'protected' package arrive, intact with the contents not disturbed. I had a seller tape a $80 Walking liberty to the invoice and stick it in a business envelope and mail. You could see the outline of half dollar on both sides of the envelope but the coin was history as it got torn out during one of the sorting journeys. They ended up sending me an inferior replacement coin in a padded mailer...not a happy camper.
"Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
A trick I have learned for detecting bad information from my local postal clerks has been to focus on whether or not their mouths are open and sounds are coming out. If both observations return positive results, I conclude I am being misinformed.
I regularly receive coins mailed at one rate, and return the coin to the sender in the same weight mailer at the same service level and am charged a different rate. I have been told that my packaging is not acceptable for registered mail only to show the clerk that I had received the item, through registered USPS, in the exact same packaging. I have been told that my paper tape is not acceptable for registered packages because the ink won't show on the hand stamps, only to insist that they stamp the tape, which ends up holding the ink as plain as day.
I have concluded that after being asked what I was mailing, and volunteering any number of descriptions of what i was mailing (both accurate and made up) that in the opinions of my local clerks, no item/material/substance that exists in the physical world and can be placed in packaging would actually be covered by postal insurance if it were purchased.
So I have made a game of it. A game that is harder and more time consuming than chess, but one where winning is more rewarding. I have a mental dossier on each of the five clerks I work with noting what they like and do not like in terms of answers to pointless questions, as well as a list of responses that stymies each of them which then allows my package to enter the mails. When I walk out without the package I carried in, I feel I have already won. If the package actually arrives, it is frosting on the cake.
I get the 25 bucks once per quarter.
https://community.ebay.com/t5/Bidding-Buying/How-does-the-Ebay-25-coupon-for-shipping-supply-work/qaq-p/25518922
Put all the envelopes you want to send the cheap way in your mailbox or hand them to your man. He will take anything if you are nice to him and recognize him once or more per year, with a little grease!
Wow, all this advice on how to skirt the rules. The USPS policy is pretty clear. Ignorance of the rules does not "grandfather you in." You are also taking a risk by not using tracking, trust me, you will be giving stuff away soon.
The "Cost of business" is what it is. This kind of behaviour eventually means higher rates for everyone else. Time to put on your big-boy pants and do the right thing. i.e. Parcel Post with tracking.
Hold on there cowboy. Read my original post. I never argued with them, I answered all the questions I was asked and when told I had to pay the parcel post rate with tracking I did just that. I did ask if policy had changed and was told the other employees had made a mistake. You are wrongfully assuming things, and you know what they say about assuming. I wanted a consensus from the many members here who do this a lot more often than I do. It does seem the post office is inconsistent with how they handle this type of shipment. Any future listings for these coins will include the parcel rate in the price or I will charge for the coins and charge parcel in the shipping.
Again, the whole purpose of my auction was to get some nice BU NIFC halves to people cheaply and make a couple bucks per transaction. I have a fair bit of them I wanted to unload and they were selling well enough until I had to end it due to the issue in my OP.
There are 4 basic criteria for making the distinction between what is eligible for basic 1st class letter rate and what requires non-machinable or parcel rate:
1 )Dimension [height and width- anything larger than a 5" X 8" envelope requires added postage]
2) Rigidity [Flat mail of eligible dimensions must be able to conform easily to the radius of the sort machine slot through which it has to pass, otherwise it requires parcel rate]
3) Thickness variation [a flat piece which varies more than 1/4" in thickness over the entire surface requires parcel rate]
4) A flat letter of 1 oz. or more requires added postage.
I've found that the cheapest_ safest_ way to mail a single or a few single coins is to use the 4" X 7" poly padded envelope (I've found them in quantities of 500 for .06/ea.) and discount unused low denomination stamps (which can be found in the range of .40 - .50 per $1 face in bulk lots). Even though the basic parcel rate of $2.67 might apply (up to 4 ounces), the cost is minimized with the stamps, and the tracking number label can be applied free at a retail service counter.
Some clerks can get bitchy about the DMM requirement that stamps have to be applied only on the addressed face of a parcel, but unless dealing with Dudley-Do-Right, they usually let that slide. In practice, using a minimum denomination of .30 is usually enough to get the necessary total on the addressed face.
"Everything is on its way to somewhere. Everything." - George Malley, Phenomenon
http://www.american-legacy-coins.com