Quick greysheet question.

Coinstartled · March 18, 2017 3:11PM

Picked up my first in a couple of years. Looking at Morgan dollars I see only one price per column rather than two (Bid and ask).

I assume that the bid price is showing but not certain.

Please advise.

JohnF · March 18, 2017 5:32PM

Correct, the price you see is "Bid" price. The old "Ask" price was always ~10% over Bid so it didn't make sense to print it, especially as well used the saved space to add new pricing columns like AU58, etc. We are also working on new retail prices called "CDN Collectors Price Guide" (CPG). These prices are already showing on Heritage auctions, and coming soon to other dealer sites. Hope this helps.

John

LanceNewmanOCC · March 18, 2017 5:33PM

.
on the sheets, at top right.

“Ask” prices are calculated as “Bid” plus 10%.

bigjpst · March 18, 2017 5:41PM

@JohnF said:

We are also working on new retail prices called "CDN Collectors Price Guide" (CPG). These prices are already showing on Heritage auctions, and coming soon to other dealer sites. Hope this helps.

John

Seems everyone who comes to my table at shows these days thinks the greysheet is the retail price guide.

AMRC · March 18, 2017 5:41PM

And those bid prices are coming from things like the CAC and Heritage "Standing buy" prices. So now you have collectors walking up with a Grey Sheet thinking they should be able to buy [nice] coins for what JA and HA is willing to buy them at.

Coinstartled · March 18, 2017 7:19PM

Thank you John. The AU58 addition is a great benefit.

This place is truly a fine resource.

Bochiman · March 18, 2017 7:27PM

@AMRC said:
And those bid prices are coming from things like the CAC and Heritage "Standing buy" prices. So now you have collectors walking up with a Grey Sheet thinking they should be able to buy [nice] coins for what JA and HA is willing to buy them at.

If someone walks up and asks for the same price as JA or HA, then the dealer can either choose to sell it at that price, or not. They can do that for me, joeblow off the street, JA, or HA....it's the dealer's choice.

I absolutely want coins at the same price JA/HA would pay. Now, if the dealer decides not to sell it to me for that price, and they would to someone else at that price, then I lose and I would avoid them. If they wouldn't sell to anyone at that price, that is absolutely their right to NOT do so.

I don't see why it is a problem. Continued bifurcation, or worse, of the market for different customers causes confusion all around. Now, if JA/HA were buying a LOT of coins from a dealer and they got discounts because of that, that is a different story. Heck, if I were buying a lot from a dealer, I usually get discounts too...and I am only a small time collector.

JohnF · March 18, 2017 7:29PM

@bigjpst said:

@JohnF said:

We are also working on new retail prices called "CDN Collectors Price Guide" (CPG). These prices are already showing on Heritage auctions, and coming soon to other dealer sites. Hope this helps.

John

Seems everyone who comes to my table at shows these days thinks the greysheet is the retail price guide.

Old habits die hard! Active dealers are quickly adjusting to our "more accurate" levels. We decided from day 1 of taking over that the most accurate price we could determine would be published as soon as we knew it. In the 80s, 90s, and even early 2000s Greysheet was basically the base-line wholesale price.That slipped over the next decade to detriment to the hobby, IMO.

DancingFire · March 18, 2017 11:35PM

IMO, CDN should get rid of the MS60 column and all the BU roll bid after 1964.

Add AU55 , MS61 column for classic gold type.
Add AU55 and MS66 column for classic type coins.

My subscription expires in April and still thinking about whether or not to renew , b/c the subscription rate have almost double since 2015.

shish · March 19, 2017 4:31AM

"retail prices called "CDN Collectors Price Guide" (CPG)."

John, this could be a great addition to the CDN.

JohnF · March 19, 2017 5:01AM

@DancingFire said:
IMO, CDN should get rid of the MS60 column and all the BU roll bid after 1964.

Add AU55 , MS61 column for classic gold type.
Add AU55 and MS66 column for classic type coins.

My subscription expires in April and still thinking about whether or not to renew , b/c the subscription rate have almost double since 2015.

Excellent suggestions. We are adding new prices nearly every month, especially for MS66 coins. In the last three months we added MS66 pricing for Barber dimes, quarters and halves. In April we are adding MS66 FB, MS67 FB Mercs on the Supplement.

As far as pricing is concerned, when we took over in August 2015, we discovered that the subscription rate of ~$124 hadn't been changed in years. We produce and mail 76 issues a year, which means $1.63 / newsletter BEFORE shipping. After we factored in costs and mailing, we were losing money. Rather than increase rates 25% a year for four years, we decided to make a single rate hike to where it makes sense. At $249/yr, our subscription is $20/month for the most important pricing information in the hobby. Our readers are the most informed and serious numismatists in the country, and $20/mo won't buy you dinner at Applebee's anymore, so we think it's reasonable and we can keep the high level staff and pricing you need to protect yourself.

I recommend the MOP (Monthly option plan) which delivers all the Greysheets once a month for $179/year. I would also add the Monthly Bluesheet as well which we are offering at a discounted rate.

As a gesture for the readers of the CU Message Forum, we'll offer 20% to anyone here.

Call 757-656-1055 during work hours and tell them you read my message on the CU forum and you'll get the discount.

ricko · March 19, 2017 5:09AM

Very nice offer and the addition of CPG pricing is also a plus. Cheers, RickO

Coinstartled · March 19, 2017 9:21AM

Generous offer from the publisher.

AMRC · March 20, 2017 11:38AM

@Bochiman said:

@AMRC said:
And those bid prices are coming from things like the CAC and Heritage "Standing buy" prices. So now you have collectors walking up with a Grey Sheet thinking they should be able to buy [nice] coins for what JA and HA is willing to buy them at.

If someone walks up and asks for the same price as JA or HA, then the dealer can either choose to sell it at that price, or not. They can do that for me, joeblow off the street, JA, or HA....it's the dealer's choice.

I absolutely want coins at the same price JA/HA would pay. Now, if the dealer decides not to sell it to me for that price, and they would to someone else at that price, then I lose and I would avoid them. If they wouldn't sell to anyone at that price, that is absolutely their right to NOT do so.

I don't see why it is a problem. Continued bifurcation, or worse, of the market for different customers causes confusion all around. Now, if JA/HA were buying a LOT of coins from a dealer and they got discounts because of that, that is a different story. Heck, if I were buying a lot from a dealer, I usually get discounts too...and I am only a small time collector.

Point is that JA, or HA are Resellers.

Bochiman · March 20, 2017 11:45AM

Point is that anyone can ask to buy at any price and anyone can sell at any price.

I am just a collector, so I know dealers will discount my opinions, but if I go to sell something, and someone is willing to pay the price I am willing to sell at, I don't care if they are a reseller or not.

Only thing offering to someone else, at a lower price because they are a reseller, does is to continue pricing differences and a bifurcated, or worse, market.

Again, if there is a relationship and/or someone is buying a lot at once, that is one thing. If it is a 1 time thing, and/or there is no real relationship, who cares that they are a reseller? If you would sell for them at $1000, and someone else offered you $1000 before that and you turned it down, don't blame the person offering you.

northcoin · March 20, 2017 12:15PM

@Bochiman said:
Point is that anyone can ask to buy at any price and anyone can sell at any price.

I am just a collector, so I know dealers will discount my opinions, but if I go to sell something, and someone is willing to pay the price I am willing to sell at, I don't care if they are a reseller or not.

Only thing offering to someone else, at a lower price because they are a reseller, does is to continue pricing differences and a bifurcated, or worse, market.

Again, if there is a relationship and/or someone is buying a lot at once, that is one thing. If it is a 1 time thing, and/or there is no real relationship, who cares that they are a reseller? If you would sell for them at $1000, and someone else offered you $1000 before that and you turned it down, don't blame the person offering you.

While I can understand both sides, it has always seemed puzzling to me that coins seemed to have one price before the public was allowed to enter a show, and another higher price after.

logger7 · March 20, 2017 12:24PM

Usually between HA's pricing guide and PCGS coinfacts you can get pretty close to current market value. Also I pick up a copy of GS from time to time, but the subscription is out of my budget at this time.

Bochiman · March 20, 2017 2:47PM

@northcoin said:

@Bochiman said:
Point is that anyone can ask to buy at any price and anyone can sell at any price.

I am just a collector, so I know dealers will discount my opinions, but if I go to sell something, and someone is willing to pay the price I am willing to sell at, I don't care if they are a reseller or not.

Only thing offering to someone else, at a lower price because they are a reseller, does is to continue pricing differences and a bifurcated, or worse, market.

Again, if there is a relationship and/or someone is buying a lot at once, that is one thing. If it is a 1 time thing, and/or there is no real relationship, who cares that they are a reseller? If you would sell for them at $1000, and someone else offered you $1000 before that and you turned it down, don't blame the person offering you.

While I can understand both sides, it has always seemed puzzling to me that coins seemed to have one price before the public was allowed to enter a show, and another higher price after.

Exactly. I can actually understand both sides as well, but both sides have flaws in them too.
End of the day, if someone pulls out a GS and expects that price, it is still within the dealer's right to say "no". No matter who it is.
It is, however, the customer's right to ask anything they want...such as the GS price. And, if a dealer would sell to another dealer for that price, but not to a regular collector, they may not be selling as much or building a customer base they would be building otherwise.

Only exception, I see, is if the customer has any kind of special "permissions" that the dealer hasn't (ie....dealer is completely a done-deal. Collector allowed to buy and come back later...a day, a week, etc....for a full price refund.).
If there are special allowances given to a collector, then I can understand a higher price.

JohnF · March 21, 2017 4:54AM

@Bochiman said:
Point is that anyone can ask to buy at any price and anyone can sell at any price.

I am just a collector, so I know dealers will discount my opinions, but if I go to sell something, and someone is willing to pay the price I am willing to sell at, I don't care if they are a reseller or not.

Only thing offering to someone else, at a lower price because they are a reseller, does is to continue pricing differences and a bifurcated, or worse, market.

Again, if there is a relationship and/or someone is buying a lot at once, that is one thing. If it is a 1 time thing, and/or there is no real relationship, who cares that they are a reseller? If you would sell for them at $1000, and someone else offered you $1000 before that and you turned it down, don't blame the person offering you.

My experience is that most dealers at shows really don't differentiate whether a buyer is a dealer or not when negotiating a "best price." For most inventory items, a dealer has a vague (or specific) idea of the lowest price he/she would part with the coin for. Often this can be affected by immediate environmental issues, like "the show has been horrible and I need to raise cash", or "the show has been awesome and I don't need to sell too cheap right now." Dealers at shows often know each other quite well, so the familiarity allows for better negotiation, however I've seen just as many dealers who don't like each other as do, so this doesn't change the issue on a large scale.

If you want my 2-cents of advice on getting the best price for your coins, or negotiating the lowest price as a buyer, the message is simple. For starters, don't play games. If you know what you want for your coin, wait for a quiet moment with the potential buyer and ask if he is interested, first. If not, you don't have to play your hand. If so, don't try and outsmart the dealer. Just tell him "my best price for this coin is... ". If he counters, tell him you already gave your best price. If he (she) passes, you move on politely. On the flip side, if a seller has a coin you like, ask for his best price and tell him up front how you plan to pay. It helps a lot to say, "I'm a cash buyer...". If you know what you want to pay, best to put it out there. These days, most coins are relatively easy to value if you've done your homework. If you'd pay $250 for a coin, just offer it. Say, "I'm a cash buyer at $250 if you are interested." If the guy accepts your offer, don't second guess yourself. Dealers are tired of the games and you will benefit from being a straight shooter. Of course, the more you buy the better his prices might get... Dealers love to sell multiple coins again, I don't think they care whether you are a "dealer" or "collector." They just want to know if your check is going to clear....

Quick greysheet question.

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