Lots of counterfeits in submission

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logger7
logger7 Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭✭✭
in U.S. Coin Forum

How does someone get snookered with buying this many counterfeits, then submit them losing $$$?

https://www.pcgs.com/Membership/sharedorder.aspx?OrderNo=21188143&Year=2017&Month=3

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  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Ouch! I would love it if PCGS posted pictures of them so we can see if they were convincing or not.

  • Kyle
    Kyle Posts: 1,822 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Ouch. Someone needs to spend less on coins and more on reference material.

    Successful BST Transactions With: tonedase, streg2, airplanenut, coindeuce, vibr0nic, natetrook, Shrub68, golden, Lakesammman, drddm, Ilikecolor, CoinJunkie, wondercoin, lablover
  • golden
    golden Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Ouch!

  • DollarAfterDollar
    DollarAfterDollar Posts: 3,217 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Gold. Definitely a collector who needs to learn more about the things they collect.

    If you do what you always did, you get what you always got.
  • bolivarshagnasty
    bolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,359 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    He won't be back after that mugging. Shame.

  • dpoole
    dpoole Posts: 5,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    What a drubbing. I can't imagine how much he got clipped to amass that mess. Really a shame.


    Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...



  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Some advantages in the submission; if the 1914 $2 1/2 was bought as an AU that graded MS62 that pays for a lot of mistakes; also the results on the $3 gold pieces were money advantageous. They try to make it worth the submitter's while.

  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    maybe it is a pawn shop and they bought them for less than melt

  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 13, 2017 7:45PM
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    A pawn shop/coin guy yesterday said he wanted to show me something. So he pulled out a two headed Barber quarter that came back from PCGS as "counterfeit" and he was upset because he thought it was a mint made product! And get this--it was a two headed coin with consecutive years, like 1914 and 1915. So he thought the mint would actually produce and release such a coin! And he said that PCGS could be sued since they said it was definitely fake if it later turned out to be real. Don't expect much from some of these guys.

  • Jinx86
    Jinx86 Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Looks like a group one my customers wanted me to send off. Ended up doing a nice "told ya so" when they came back. He is now a loyal customer and won't buy much raw stuff. He told me later that he thought I was just try to talk down his coins to buy them cheap.

  • sparky64
    sparky64 Posts: 7,063 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Man, that smarts.
    Wouldn't you like to know the story behind all those or how they ended up in one submission?

    "If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"

    My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress

  • MorganMan94
    MorganMan94 Posts: 1,331 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @sparky64 said:
    Man, that smarts.
    Wouldn't you like to know the story behind all those or how they ended up in one submission?

    Someone probably thought they were getting a lot of bargains at a small auction.

  • BryceM
    BryceM Posts: 11,940 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I bet they spent more than 10 seconds per coin on that one.

  • TopographicOceans
    TopographicOceans Posts: 6,535 ✭✭✭✭
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    It could also be a counterfeiter trying to see what they can get past PCGS.

    There a lot of counterfeit gold out there. Some is real gold melted down when gold became illegal to own in the US, except for collector coins.

    And Lebanon is a big source of counterfeit US gold coins.

  • Ryan1972
    Ryan1972 Posts: 3 ✭
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    Being a very novice collector, I learned to only buy graded coins I want for my collection. What happened to this person is one of my biggest fears in buying ungraded coins.

  • Cougar1978
    Cougar1978 Posts: 10,067 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Hope he did not pay much more than melt for them. What a disaster.

    Investor
  • chumley
    chumley Posts: 2,305 ✭✭✭✭
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    does PCGS slab counterfeits and just note that on the slab?I have what I think is a fake 1878cc Morgan that I keep as a learning tool... not sure I would want to learn that lesson in gold

  • SixMileRick
    SixMileRick Posts: 10 ✭
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    I watched a Morgan sell last week in a pawn shop. Handed to me and it looked nice. I flipped it over and it was a 1990 CC. I looked it over and let it ring on the counter when I put it down. I said ..." not a good silver ring to that one, I'll pass". The other guy there grabbed it and purchased it for $50.

    It had two small case c's for cc on the reverse. He said he was going to submit that one. --- OUCH

  • ricko
    ricko Posts: 98,724 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Wow... that is painful..... would like to know the details on that submission.... Probably not a member here though... Cheers, RickO

  • Walkerguy21D
    Walkerguy21D Posts: 12,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I bet they spent more than 10 seconds per coin on that one.

    I'm hoping they went back and double checked the ones they didn't call counterfeit!

    .

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  • shorecoll
    shorecoll Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Guy could have thought they were all fake, so he scored on the real ones.

    Likely bought a "deal". I had a friend who bought 30 or 40 AU/Unc Morgans a few years back at a flea market...they looked very good, but I thought they were fakes, and had identical toning on all of them. Some semi-keys, CC's etc. and he got them all for $15 each. He sold them on eBay and none came back, but I wouldn't have touched them.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • derryb
    derryb Posts: 38,604 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Uncertified $2.50 gold coins should be bought only by an experienced collector. An often counterfeited coin.

    Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else. - Bastiat

  • ShadyDave
    ShadyDave Posts: 2,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @shorecoll said:
    Guy could have thought they were all fake, so he scored on the real ones.

    Likely bought a "deal". I had a friend who bought 30 or 40 AU/Unc Morgans a few years back at a flea market...they looked very good, but I thought they were fakes, and had identical toning on all of them. Some semi-keys, CC's etc. and he got them all for $15 each. He sold them on eBay and none came back, but I wouldn't have touched them.

    That's a really shitty thing to do...that is what give this hobby a black eye. That's how someone ends up with a submission like this...

  • shorecoll
    shorecoll Posts: 5,447 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    I have read that back in the "good old days" there was more counterfeit gold in circulation than real. I rarely buy gold at all, and I would never buy it raw, unless I spent some serious time studying counterfeit detection.

    ANA-LM, NBS, EAC
  • logger7
    logger7 Posts: 9,857 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    It's the reason the grading services came about--to interdict fakes, "authentication".

  • davewesen
    davewesen Posts: 6,981 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    @TopographicOceans said:
    It could also be a counterfeiter trying to see what they can get past PCGS.

    There a lot of counterfeit gold out there. Some is real gold melted down when gold became illegal to own in the US, except for collector coins.

    And Lebanon is a big source of counterfeit US gold coins.

    If that is the case, they did very well

  • crazyhounddog
    crazyhounddog Posts: 14,250 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 14, 2017 12:23PM
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    It appears this collector has more dollars than sense. I'm VERY sorry to see this.

    The bitterness of "Poor Quality" is remembered long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.
  • Walkerguy21D
    Walkerguy21D Posts: 12,164 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Uncertified $2.50 gold coins should be bought only by an experienced collector. An often counterfeited coin.

    I recall reading a long time back that Dave Bowers once compiled a complete set of counterfeit $2.50 Indians....every date and mm.

    .

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  • golden
    golden Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Back in the very early 1970's I purchased 20 gold coins from a guy that had an advertisement in the Coin Dealer Newsletter. There were 5 $2.5 Liberties, 5 $2.5 Indians, 5 $5 Liberties and 5 $5 Indians all AU or so. I showed them to my buddy that had a coin shop. He said that some were bad and maybe all were. He knew a guy at the Secret Service and said I should let them look at them which I did. The Secret Service sent them off to headquarters. After several months I got the 5 $5 Liberties back which were good. The Secret Service paid a visit to the guy that sold them to me. He was mad. He said that I should just have sent them back ( so that he could sell them to someone else ) for a refund. I did receive a refund. The guy never advertised gold coins in the Newsletter again.

  • lkeigwin
    lkeigwin Posts: 16,895 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    Talk about a shellacking. That'll kill a new interest in the hobby.
    Lance.

    Coin Photography Services / Everyman Registry set / BHNC #213
  • WoodenJefferson
    WoodenJefferson Posts: 6,491 ✭✭✭✭
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    e-bay bound

    Chat Board Lingo

    "Keep your malarkey filter in good operating order" -Walter Breen
  • jwitten
    jwitten Posts: 5,417 ✭✭✭✭✭
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    As a collector of mainly $2 1/2 Indians, this makes me at least feel better about myself. I think in all of the NGC and PCGS submissions I've had (probably had over 100 graded so far) only one has come back fake, and it was a REALLY good fake. I mainly buy raw, but have gotten pretty good at spotting the bad ones.

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