Outside of your collection, has anyone seen a decent 1839-C Quarter Eagle in AU or Unc. for sale
BillJones
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Doug Winter describes the 1839-C quarter eagle as "one of the most common Charlotte gold coins." That might be true by the number of survivors, but when it comes the quality, it's whole different story. I've been looking at the major shows and auctions for a little over a year, and the best I've seen, I would call "marginal." All of the AU and Mint State graded pieces I have seen have been cleaned to death.
The "coin doctors" who do this kind of work deserve to be called "coin butchers." When they get done, the coins are only fit to be worn beside the polished brass buttons on military and marching band uniform. The coins are utterly ruined with no hope of even returning to "collector grade" by a great deal of storage time in a coin envelope. This technique can work for many coins, but for these "jazzed up horrors" there is no hope.
At the recent Winter ANA, there were six 1839-C quarter eagles on the floor. The highest graded examples were two "AU-58s," an "MS-60" and an "MS-61." All of them were straight graded and as bright as brass buttons. None of them were graded by our host. There were two EF-40s and one of them was better than any of the "AU" and "Mint State" examples, but given the quality of the rest of the coins in my set, that piece was below my goals and expectations.
So has any one seen any decent 1839-C quarter eagles in PCGS holders? It would be nice to know if there are any out there for this so-called "common date."
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Birds chirping.................................................
I don't know why, but the 1839-C QE might be the easiest gold coin to find in brass button condition- certainly the easiest Classic Head to find so.
There are decent ones out there in AU - MS condition, but in 10 years of searching, I'd say there are a handful that exist. And I do mean five coins or less constituting a handful. Haven't seen any in the last couple of years. One coin, I think a PCGS 58 came up at Heritage a couple years ago. The Pogue coin in September 2105 was a PCGS 62. RCW had a PCGS58 back in 2013.
I was at 2008 FUN when a hoard of them hit, about 13-14 in AU to MS between Heritage and Stacks. I recall only 2 of them that were not brass buttons. One was an NGC coin that was graded 53 or 55, which I would bet donuts is now in a 58 holder.
Doug also says the 39-c in high grade is a tough tough tough coin. More so then the 38-c
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Well, maybe it's time to buy one in EF-40 and say to hell with it. If they have all been ruined, it's a waste of time to look for a good one since they are all in "strong hands." You may as well own a coin you can live with for a lot less money.
Why have some many 1839-C's been ruined and not so many 1838-C's? Did all of the 1839-C's end in a hoard that was marketed by a "coin butcher?"
Doug says it's rarer in full Mint State than the 1838-C. I'd be happy to over pay for an AU in an MS-60 holder, which I did for the 1839-D, but not even that option is available. One piece at the ANA show, that was in an NGC MS-61 holder, was probably a Mint State coin before someone decided to treat it with Braso. Now it's just a $30,000 brass button without a shank.
Almost an AU - Here's one in XF. It's part of my 1839 "Coins in Commerce" set purchased from Doug Winter:
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
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This one sold at Heritage in 2015:
https://coins.ha.com/itm/classic-quarter-eagles/quarter-eagles/1839-c-2-1-2-au58-pcgs-cac-breen-6150-winter-2-variety-22-r4/a/1219-5253.s
That Heritage piece looks really nice. Too bad it's "for sale by the owner."
Really like that example @claychaser . Great overall look.
I like @Ronyahski 's brass button reference. Although I've never seen one in person, I can see it perfectly in my mind.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
My Washington Quarter Registry set...in progress
Interesting post. For about the last 2-1/2 years, I have been looking for a 39-c in XF+ for a friend of mine who is doing a set of $2-1/2 Classic Heads. I have also been looking for a 38-c. I agree that decent ones are almost impossible to find. I did not get to walk the floor at FUN but when I do get around at a show, the going is tough. I'm not sure I've seen a decent one in over 2 years. My friend's requirements are a little tough-PCGS XF40 or 45 with a CAC, or t a minimum CACable. Nothing! I wish I had seen the XFs you saw. At least I could have passed it on.
Tom
Yes, this is the one I was referring to. Bill - call up Heritage and ask them to contact the Buyer with an offer. Nothing to lose.
One EF would not have CAC'd at all. The other one had decent color, but there were some marks in the field that would have dropped a grade years ago. The CAC mavin would have had to been in a generous mood.
This AU-50 old green label PCGS just sold at Heritage. I tracked it with a cover bid and would have jumped in at well over the previous bids, but it went for over the previous prices realized and well over the "Coin Facts" price. It has a small lamination in the right obverse field, and I was concerned about the light color, which can indicate dipped "white gold."
Dipped "white gold" is not as bad as the "Brasso look," but it's not worth a premium price for sure.
https://coins.ha.com/itm/1839-c-2-1-2-au50-pcgs-winter-2-variety-22-r4/a/1252-3916.s?ic3=ViewItem-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-ArchiveSearchResults-012417&lotPosition=0|0
Doug CoinFacts--
"The 1839-C is by far the more common of the two Classic Head quarter eagles struck at the Charlotte Mint. It is also one of the more available issues from this mint, in terms of overall rarity. In high grade, however, it is scarce and underrated. In fact, it is a rarer coin in Uncirculated than the more heralded 1838-C quarter eagle. The 1839-C quarter eagle is one of the most common Charlotte gold coins. It is comparatively plentiful in VF and EF grades. It becomes moderately scarce in the lower AU grades and it is scarce in the higher AU grades. It us extremely rare and very underrated in full Mint State and is actually rarer in Uncirculated than the 1838-C."
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Still, it's nicer than most I've seen and the AU-58 CAC looks really nice. Thanks, Bill.
Tom
Bill,
Here is mine, only XF45 but CAC liked it. If it was cleaned in the past it retoned nicely.
Best, SH
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nice coin!
I agree with Bill... I was fortunate enough to have finally made it to a Winter FUN this year, and every AU+ '39-C QE I saw was a shiny mess. I think I know which XF-40s he speaks of also - they were a "pass" for me also. FWIW, here's my example of the "more common in AU" '38-C.
'dude
That coin is a little nicer than my 1838-C, Charlotte Dude, which is also graded AU-55.
Oh my, but yours is pretty also, Bill. LOVE.
'dude
Thank you! I bought that one at a late 1980s Early American Coppers convention, of all places. It was raw, of course, which is why I have a photo of it outside of a slab. This was my "representative" Charlotte gold coin for many years.
Well as long as we are showing our 38-C's..... Mine again is only XF but I paid AU money for it because, well, these are hard to find without the scrubbed look....
BTW, old image from 4 years ago, I need to reshoot this one after polishing up the scuffs on the slab and get my better image of the green bean on the presentation!
Best, SH
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I "used" to have a '39-C... purchased it raw from a small-time dealer from the Charlotte area who had a table at a New Carrolton, MD show (anyone remember those) back in 1994. He had it unholdered, jingling around in his shirt pocket. When he realized I was looking for Charlotte mint product, he pulled it out, and after a brief discussion about it, sold it to me as a FINE coin... @ $500 if I recall correctly. I had it submitted to PCGS, and it came back as a VF-20. While it was well worn, it was honest wear, and an opportunity not to pass by. I agree on the general consensus regarding the vast majority of holdered '39-C QEs, particularly those in one certain company's holder... scrubbed, brightened, simply no character... If the "right" '39-C were to come my way again, I'd jump on it though.
Here's my old girl... no telling where she is nowadays.
'dude
That VF-20 is a nice wholesome coin with distracting marks and original surfaces. I'd rather have that than a $20,000 + "brass button."
Since everyone is showing the 38 and 39-C qe's. Here is a 39-C I bought from DW a few years back. It is graded PCGS AU55 CAC
Overland Trail Collection Showcase
Dahlonega Type Set-2008 PCGS Best Exhibited Set
+1. With a coin like that grade takes a backseat to the "look".
I did finally fill the hole in a Heritage auction. The piece is graded AU-50 and is a late die state.