Things bad metal/coin shop dealers say
Azurescens
Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭✭✭
1 Speak ill of their last customers while you're there. I'll just leave.
2 "I can't pay spot for rolls of XF (old US silver), I'll never see my money'.
3 "I have to pay less for 40% kennedy, war nickels, etc because it costs me more". Wink wink nudge nudge.
4 "No one pays spot for 90%" .. apmex does!
5 "Everyone thinks melt for gold jewelry is fair but I'll never sell gold bracelets or necklaces anywhere near melt". Yeah, 500% past melt is pretty far.
6 When your coin hasn't come in, but they have 4 or 5 others that they think you might like because you once mentioned liking a denomination, but didn't have the courtesy to call email or text that it'd be a few more days.
7 World silver melt is less than US melt because it costs more. LOL
8 "There's no money in it for me if I pay spot for serialized Englehard bars".
... How do these people stay in business?? Sharking grannies? The more and more I stop at shops and hear people say these things, the more and more I don't even want to stop in local coin shops anymore.
As dealers, do these kinds of dealers make you look bad? Do most places just think right out the gate that anyone selling is an idiot?
I left a bad review for a guy who "misread his decimal" on a junk gold / silver maples sale and tried to shark me out of 5400. Google took it down since the guy said it never happened. I understand mistakes, but really did you think I'd take 600 bucks and be ecstatic all my gold and silver caught so much?
Oh, and, "Good luck getting this price somewhere else".. what I hear is "get a better price somewhere else".
I'm sorry that you can't pay out 7 an ounce on silver but charge 21.50 for an American Eagle when silver is at 17.
I've had $1000 years and $20k years. I've been in places where I caught a good price selling, and took the money and just bought coins somewhere else.
Last week I went to sell a 3000 gold necklace. The guy said "18k didn't really mean 18k back then".. what, in the mid 90s? He offered me 2k saying the cost of melting it, waiting to get his money back.. oh shut up and stop digging deeper. I left and got my 3k at a random shop on my way home.
Sometimes I'll sell some trash to make room for more and get a good idea if I'll ever be there again. Is this really what corner coin shops have come to?
I never remember it ever being like this!
Comments
It was always like this at many shops. This is why it is so important for collectors to figure out who the good guys are, and do this quickly.
RMR: 'Wer, wenn ich schriee, hörte mich denn aus der Engel Ordnungen?'
CJ: 'No one!' [Ain't no angels in the coin biz]
Man, after skimming through all that, you sure have a lot of problems!
Lol no just a culmination of the last few years. I move around a lot and still haven't established a local go-to place. Is it too much to ask to buy/sell fairly, talk about coins and nerd out? I had a great one in CT, an okay one in Fargo, a great one in Fargo, an OK one in Minnesota but the last 3 years in the PNW.. I don't really feel comfortable anywhere.
Which one in Minnesota?
I have dealt with a great one in Fargo as well and they are one of my favorites.
I have heard the most vicious things even at the better coin dealer operations. Lots of idle time, the devil's workshop I guess.
I've heard them say that when the coins come in to the grading services they are graded and slabbed right away, then they sit on the slabs until the magic time to ship them arrives much later. I've heard a lot of gossip about the biggest auction companies with criticisms, their competitors offering little of nothing, all the skeletons in other people's closet proffered as if they were gems.
If it were me I would probably go out of business in giving the customers too much information about what their stuff was worth and trying to get them the most $$$.
The big dealer that looks like a bank in Fargo is a great outfit. 2 miles down the road, there's an older gentleman in a corner store that's just as honest as anyone else... "kinda". Definitely a cool place to hang out and talk coins all day and buy a few things cuz why not.. The big bank-looking outfit has a great owner but the young associates are terrible at times if you're buying anything.
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That goes without saying.. shop or not, if someone came to me with a monster box of silver and said I was hoping to get 1000 dollars I'd grant them their wish for sure.
Shops that want to pay half of what silver is worth then charge massive premiums on bullion.. to me that's double dipping and then some.. I know you gotta pay to keep the lights on, I know what running a business entails (not a coin business of course).. but in this day and age and the limitless technology and huge world market, why lie? I've heard some of the most outlandish things from dealers these days than I ever did way back. It's as if the more level the playing field, the more absurd things I hear.
Unfortunately some dishonest dealers are in every area.. I had a new watch in a sealed box worth over $5,000 ,, Dumbass dealer attempted to convince me it was used , offered $250.00... Or dealer buying price of 1oz AGEs $75 under spot .
I saw one guy walk into a shop with a 1799 $10 gold piece that the owner said was counterfeit, the guy was shocked because he said it had been in the family for generations. He ended up selling it at melt being discouraged by what the "expert" said. How would you know the guy was being honest or not? I have heard many dealers flat out lie, or it could be being misinformed. They keep their cards close to their chest. Selective recall actually is quite profitable if you are a good liar. I agree that fair buy sells are imperative. I know a dealer who in the last month turned an under $4K purchase of a "problem" proof gold coin into an MS ultra cam worth over $10K more, and that coin had been in the family for generations. I don't think windfall profits are right, at least the tax man theoretically gets a bigger cut.
I brought a 5$ gold piece to a dealer who said "most of these below ms66 get melted or thrown in rolls ... but I can pay you fair melt". Fair melt was 50%, lol. Come on, guy, haha.
Back in the early 1970's I walked into my local coin shop. These guys were honest and fair. My buddy handed me a 1793 Wreath Cent in Good or nearly so. He said that he had just bought it for $150 ( a fair price at the time ) from a lady that brought it into the shop. She had first taken it to another coin shop in town. My buddy asked me what I thought would be the lowest price that anyone would offer? I said that someone would have to have a lot of nerve to offer $50. The lady told him that the dealer, who was a preacher, had offered her $5!
My man tells people who bring in junk all the time, I don't want or need it, but if you have to have cash right now, here is what I will pay. Seems like the "right way" to go about screwing people.
Local shop here bought a almost complete set of bust dimes for 2 bucks each a few months ago. Most were ag to VG, but several scarce dates. Saw the coins herd him bragging about it at a local show
In all defense 40% does cost more to ship it and is really a pain sometimes.
When supply outpaces demand and the coin and pawn shops are the only buyers.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I can understand the problems with buying bullion type coins, but many dealers have enough credit to be able to buy and then lock in a price with a wholesale buyer like DelGreco, Apmex, Upstate, etc.. 10-20% profit margin buys should be enough on the larger purchases.
When I had the shop, I paid the same amount even if the Peace Dollar was the rare "TRVST" one.
Its a shame that you have had so many bad experiences that lead you to have such a disgusted view of the industry. Some of the points you make are valid. Other points are just ridiculous as it seems you think that the businesses are there to facilitate you making money but not themselves.
Point 3: the wholesale buy on 40% tends to be 50 cents to a dollar less per ounce than 90%. People would rather buy 90% because it takes up much less space. In order to get people to tie up their space with 40% and war nix you have to discount them much more. It is not cost effective to melt them and I am pretty sure you have to use a specialized refiner to melt 40% because of one of the elements in the alloy. I am not certain about that so feel free to correct me on that.
Point 4: Apmex is currently paying about 50 cents under on $1000 face bags wholesale. I think their public number is $1 under. You can certainly ship it to them and they will send you a check very reliably. Well if you are selling it to a dealer who may not have a retail outlet what should they be expected to pay? They run a business which is expected to pay out immediately. They have rent, employees and market risk. They are providing you a service to get money immediately. What about on smaller quantities that require the same paperwork to buy it from you? In your eyes, how much are they allowed to make tying up $13,000 to provide you a service? If they are lying which at times in history that would be, that is not ok. At current time it is the complete truth.
Point 5: This is a matter of contention but most coin dealers don't sell jewelry and if they do they might sell it for melt or maybe a little more. They are not like Jewelers who mark things up 3-5X. Unless you are looking to rip premium brands like Tiffany, you should be able to get used, non-stone items at less than 150% of melt.
Point 7: Again just like dealing with 40%, most people prefer US90 because it is a known, easily figured product. People only need to know 1 calculation. It is available in huge quantities and pretty much any store has a fair amount of it moving through regularly. With world silver it may only be a handful of any one thing at a time. Purity is different and not consistent across different countries. Dealing with a few pieces is much more costly as far as time. Even if you can sell to someone like Apmex for a little more, it takes more time than it is worth to sell them 5 canada silver quarters, 10 silver six pence and a few Mexican coins (especially the 10% ones). A lot of that stuff gets melted because it just saves a bunch of time. When you melt silver you end up getting less than 90%.
The other points I will grant you.
I would guess that they'd know where to sell it BEFORE they bought it. Nothing worse than buying something only to be told by your wholesaler that he doesn't need it.
It is not cost effective to melt them and I am pretty sure you have to use a specialized refiner to melt 40% because of one of the elements in the alloy. I am not certain about that so feel free to correct me on that.
It's the war nicks that are difficult to refine. My understanding based on what I've read is that they have to go through the refining process twice. This is due to the low silver content and the difficulty of removing the manganese alloy.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I stand corrected. I knew it was one of those two low percentage ones. Thx PerryHall
I have no problem with any of them. I just buy from the one's I like best and that give me the best deals we all need to do this find the right one's that don't do that. They need to live with them self's and if they can sleep at night good for theme some do and sleep very well with full belles and bank Accounts.
Hoard the keys.
The worst one I've experienced was on a 100 ounce silver bar last summer.The dealer was telling me a regular customer had just spent 14k buying bulk bars.Says he's looking for 100 ounce bars.I say I have one I'd sell.The dealer gets excited and says I'll pay you $1400 cash right now (his were marked at $2495).I respond with why so low? He says they're tough to sell.Right after telling me about this customer buying them. I respond with I'll do $2000.He says the profit margain is too small.I decline and he gets mad and says "I have to make a profit" and slams his hand down on the table.I remind him that he would be making almost $500.His response, while laughing, "$500 isn't worth my time".I walked away and haven't spoken to the guy since.Always remember morals and business hardly ever go together.
BST references several
It's a stupid dealer who tells ANY customer ANYTHING about another customer.
I got a GRAND sale by pissing off a caller.
Phone rang and the guy asked me WHY he should buy from me. Then he asked for the names of some satisfied customers he could call for a reference.
I told him NO! I will NOT divulge the contact info for ANY customer!
He said he would make it "worth my while."
I lit into him and told him that ALL my deals are CONFIDENTIAL!
He asked "even for a deal as big as this one?"
I told him the size didn't matter. I would give NO info about ANY customer, buyer or seller. PERIOD!
His voice changed and he said he would be right in. He told me that EVERY other shop in town was willing to give him refs to call.
Amazing!
"18k didn't really mean 18k back then"....
Amazing... That is just plain lying... Cheers, RickO
I can attest to karat stamps not being completely reliable.