Coin Receipts - Going Digital & Shredding....
ms70
Posts: 13,957 ✭✭✭✭✭
I was sorting out coin related stuff this weekend and came upon the overstuffed folder I keep purchase receipts in. With recently insuring my collection still fresh in my mind, it dawned on me that I should do something to preserve all that information other than just keeping papers in a folder.
So I scanned everything into .PDF files and named each file specific to the coin. Then I went to Tar-Jay and got a couple of USB drives. On them I put the .PDFs, all the coin images, and a scan of the insurance policy. I'll keep one USB home and the other in the safe deposit box. As I update files I can swap the updated USB for the one in the bank. Repeat as necessary..... Then I shredded all the paper receipts and made some new space in my desk!
I just wanted to put this out here as food for thought for anyone who might find this method would be helpful to them.
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Comments
I have a slightly different approach, kind of a Simba Lion King
I do not keep any receipts. I have photographs of the top value coins, a Pareto of value, and an excel list of what I have, generally. The "boring" junk I wish I did not have, I do not track.
To me, the receipt is but a meaningless reminder of the past. My insurance is based on present value, so what I paid for it is immaterial. A receipt will not tell me what I should sell it for, as what I paid has no bearing on current value or what a person might give for it. If nothing else, the receipt may poison a sale, as if I know I am buried in it, I may hold on for more, trying to somehow not lose as much, or conversely, if it a item where I paid a pittance, then I may sell it too cheap, as I already "know" I have made a ton on it.
Also, may receipts are not detailed enough, ie, paid $800 for a F12 1909-S VDB. OK, now prove the coin in your collection is the same one on the receipt. Short of cert numbers, it is basically impossible to match them up.
Back to insurance, with a "folder" how does the insurance know you still retained these coins? Maybe you sold 80% at various times for cash, no receipt. Unless you can convince the fire at your house or the thief to allow photographs dated the moment the loss occurs, it still goes back to "How do I know what was there?"
My dad was pretty meticulous about receipts on his stamp collection, a collection in the 7 figures. It was large, he was a variety freak, and spanned both the US and England, as he lived in England for a long time. He was the "discoverer" of many varieties. His receipts dated back into the late 1930's. My dad passed away very quickly, and literally stamps were still sitting out in his study. He did tell me, in his ramblings as he was fading, 2 people I should talk to about his stamps, 1 US and 1 British. The US person had been dead for 30 years, and the British person had been dead for 2 years.
I was executor of his estate, so I just lumped the entire stamp collection, with his excel files, as a single amount, based on a fixed percentage (33%) of the Scott Catalog value (too high, but it gave an IRS recognized value). That "cleared" all the receipts, as the new "value" of all the stamps was 33% of Scott Catalog, as of the date of the dispositioning of the estate. So far, all the stamps that have been sold have either fallen below the 33%, or for stamps above the 33%, they are bundled with stamps below the 33%, so there is no taxes due on any sale. Literally, about 2 linear feet of receipts in file drawers went to the shredder.
But what about YOU selling a coin and calculating an gains taxes? I spoke to an IRS person about this. The question was a little different, as it was posed as to purchasing an item for cash, where the seller did not provide a receipt, or if, through time, the receipt had been lost. The IRS person responded, off the record of course, that part of what they looked at was intent. If you said that I bought a given coin in 1982 for X amount, and sold it for Y amount in 2017, and I am paying taxes on the difference, that is a good starting point. If you showed that, for a given coin in 1982, the value was $200 in the Red Book, too high but it is printed, and you paid $100, and sold it for $500, and the Red Book Value is $975 today, that would be a pretty good correlation.
They recognize there is a huge cash market of no receipts, so you are at least trying to make it good.
Hey mustangbob, you have some good points in there and definitely some stuff to chew on. My main concern with the receipts though, is proof of ownership should I have to make an insurance claim. As to your point on "How do I know what was there?", the insurance company didn't ask for proof of ownership when I got the policy, except for individual pieces that exceed $10K in value (which sadly I have none). They only wanted to know a total value of the collection. So I assume they have their own adjusters that investigate the loss but if nothing else the receipts will hopefully give a starting point and some credibility. Plus I have no idea if they might even ask me to produce them or not.
As far as buying/selling/profit, etc, I'm not worried about that since I have no plan on selling anything in the foreseeable future. If I do decide to occasionally upgrade a piece here or there, in my experience, my profit would be insignificant if I even make any at all, LOL..... I figure unless I'm forced to sell for some catastrophic reason my kids can deal with the collection when I croak.
One other thing I forgot to mention which you reminded me of, is that I also put the back up file of my collecting software on the USB too.
Thanks for the very interesting response!
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Good thoughts presented here....something for us all to think about in one manner or another.
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I've always advocated to keep a copy of your numismatic receipts. If you need them in the future you can produce them, but if you want to bury them for whatever legitimate or paranoid reason then you may do that, too, but at least having the original copies (either in paper form or digital reproductions) allows you flexibility.
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
I (normally) keep my receipts so I may laugh or cry about what I paid for them back in the day.
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Digital receipts are the way to go. You have them if you need them and they don't take up much room.
As far as copies, you should always have a copy for when (a) your hard drive crashes (an external hard drive) and (b) for when your house burns down (an offsite copy)
I agree 100%. Save every receipt and a copy. If you ever sell off a large collection, you may have to prove your cost basis to the IRS. Ask your CPA or your tax person. The IRS can put your cost basis at face value if you do not have a receipt. Don't trust me, ask any CPA that has had to deal with this.
Receipts? With the moves and life changing events I have gone through, I am lucky to still have coins... Cheers, RickO
I conveniently lose my receipts immediately after each purchase.