Should or would you downgrade a coin you feel is over graded ?
STEWARTBLAYNUMIS
Posts: 2,697 ✭✭✭✭
Yes, I just bought the 1895 O Barber dime graded MS 67 which was graded two years ago as an MS 66+
I will down grade the coin back to MS 66+
I paid the same price for an MS 67 as it sold for as an MS 66+
I urge others to do the same to aid the stop of gradeflation
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Comments
How does a downgrade actually happen? Do you submit and tell PCGS the grade you want or provide a max grade?
Good question Zoins: I will go to PCGS and tell them they over graded the coin and want it back in the previous grade they assigned the coin. They have to do it and do it for FREE.
Stewart
"They have to do it and do it for FREE"
Something tells me they may agree in certain cases and not in others.
I like to downgrade them 3 or 4 grades, and then get the diamond stickers indicating ultra crazy PQ coins.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
I certainly would
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Yes it could be done if Stewart was the grader.:)
I do it often enough from NGC to PCGS. Have considered it once or twice with a PCGS coin but Laura says not to even try it.
Doesn't PCGS have a grade guarantee and pay you the difference between the grades?
Seems unlikely that anyone can say my coin is over graded, put it in a lower graded holder please. Oh, and by the way, pay me the difference.
EAC 6024
I question your premise and result.
Only an altruistic purist with no regard for commercialism would ever downgrade anything and getting PCGS to regrade for free has about as much chance as getting the Mexicans to pay for the wall.
I wouldn't do it, as it would not be financially prudent.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
I'm not sure this is the case. While they may do it, I don't believe they are obligated if they feel the coin is properly graded. Seems like some everyman set collectors could insist on MS to AU58+ downgrades and that could throw a wrench in the works.
But then everyman could get a boatload of gold CACa stickers.
I prefer the truth. And who is to say in the case of grading coins, what is true ? If I felt a coin is over/graded or under-graded, am I right or wrong ?
And who's money is being spent , looking for the truth ?
Buddy can you spare a dime ?
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
He says he paid the same price for the coin in both grades so.............
good luck with that......lol
Jack Beymer is the only dealer I know who will downgrade a certified coin that he believes (well, knows) is overgraded.
He doesn't physically have them downgraded by the services, just sells at a lower grade.
I welcomed the grading revolution in the 80's, but I believe it has gotten out of hand and become full of hazards lately.
I will not for several reasons. Collectors have the option to pay or pass-
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
Why bother? One collector's positive gesture will eventually be scrubbed out when that coin comes back on the market again and the same up-graders go back to work once again. And there's no way you can help return millions of TPG over-graded coins back for a down grade. This is the proverbial dutch boy with a finger in the dike. 20+ years of gradeflation is a "tad" too late to try and shut the barn door. You have CAC to assist though.
Companies are hesitant to downgrade their own coins even if they are over graded
Why do they HAVE to do it? I'm thinking they have the option to stand by the assigned grade. Bouncing back and forth makes them look incompetent. Besides, I think this "+" game is foolish anyway.
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Seriously? I always thought that he had some of the strongest 'ask' prices in the business. I have one of his old ads from 1994 and his prices aren't much lower than what I'd pay NOW...lmao.
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
BINGO!
Perhaps if you crack it and resubmit it...then it may receive the lower grade you desire.
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Glad someone said it. His prices are next grade up anyway so what's the difference.
EAC 6024
Not sure I could tell the difference on a Barber.
Have accepted downgrades on the crossover but, who hasn't?
How do you know for sure it is over graded ??
I submitted a 1905 O PC 63 Half for reconsideration in the original holder, thinking it should be a 58. It returned in a 64 holder. Oh well......
TPG coin - no.
I believe it is over graded because it was CAC 'd as an Ms 66+ but would not CAC as an MS 67
Every coin in my collection is CAC 'd and every O mint in MS 67 in my set is higher quality.
With all due respect, that seems hypocritical of Laura to not be willing to downgrade a PCGS coin based on some her posts in her Hot Topics blog. She has even stated or implied that having one coin with a lofty slab grade that is undeserved brings down the quality and value of an entire set.
You certainly are expert enough to make your own determination, but I would leave CAC out of it. Last year, I had a coin unexpectedly fail and resubmitted it two weeks later only to have it green bean the second time around. Granted it wasn't an expensive coin, but CAC is just as inconsistent as any mainstream grading service.
Maybe you should not have bought the coin to begin with? Why invite angst?
rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
I think tradedollarnut actually explains the rational behind a move such as this very articulately in the linked video interview below.
If you fast forward to 2:30 (two minutes and thirty seconds) into the video you can jump to the topic at hand.
coinweek.com/video-news/coinweek-iq-bruce-morelans-hall-of-fame-liberty-seated-silver-dollars/
Charles III Album
Charles III Portrait Set
Charles IV Album
Charles IV Portrait Set
Spanish Colonial Pillar Set
I've always felt my submissions had a downgrade built in.
Please tell me this is impossible.
I thought CACa was a "one shot" deal - - pass or fail forever (in that holder).
All of the rebsubmission activity is a crock IMO.
Stewart, I am sure that your motives are very genuine. But there not many collectors like yourself that might argue for a downgrade. Perhaps, it would be more productive to challenge the grade of a coin that another collector owns. Kind of like throwing the red flag in a NFL game. And you can still argue for your downgrade..
OINK
I've talked with JA. You can submit if you disagree. No charge (I don't think they have changed that).
Sometimes, a 2nd look may make a difference, sometimes it won't. It is what it is. People doing it should go into it with their eyes wide open and not assume anyone is infallible nor that everyone will agree.
They do keep numbers on file so any coin getting resubmitted can/will be looked up. They don't change often, but it doesn't mean they won't re-look and maybe agree that it should get a sticker
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I don't see this as practical for the owner of a coin unless the purchase price is at the level that in your opinion the grade is at.
"A dog breaks your heart only one time and that is when they pass on". Unknown
...Last year, I had a coin unexpectedly fail and resubmitted it two weeks later only to have it green bean the second time around. Granted it wasn't an expensive coin, but CAC is just as inconsistent as any mainstream grading service.
(My thought) If someone sends in multiple Walker Half Dollars, I would think that they would be compared to one another, whereas some would be CAC'd while others would not. If a Walker Half was sent in with a other denominations, I would think that it would have a better chance at getting CAC'd (if it was deserving) since it was not being compared to others within the a same time frame. I have never tried this, but...
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Once again.... grades are an opinion, and not a science. True, one can generally get a consensus among experienced graders, which is, in the end, a distilled opinion. There is no doubt some coins are overgraded and certainly some are undergraded...that is what happens when you are dealing with opinions. Add to that the (IMO) totally unacceptable category of 'eye appeal' and you then have an opinionated opinion. Cheers, RickO