Our hobby is so fraught with so many mine fields in gets incredibly distracting.
afford
Posts: 1,723 ✭✭✭✭✭
If a unscrupulous seller can get one over on an unsuspecting buyer he or she will if you let him or her. That is just the way it is.
Yes one needs to buy the book first and then become a mini-expert in that genre or one will lose and the tis just the way it is.
It seems like every time I finally find a rarity upon unwrapping the parcel the foot drops and something is just not right with the item, whether it be counterfeit, messed with in some harsh way or not at all what was advertised, but something fouls up the promise of discovery almost each and every time.
Not saying I haven't made a few great discoveries but if you add up the winners with the expected pieces the percentages are low, super low.
Lets here about your almost and ifs if there are any, and I am pretty certain there are and the stories are fascinating.
Comments
Knowledge sets you free.
Yes knowledge and experience is your friend. Believe most collectors have paid their "dues" in the process of learning the hobby. Your in the right place to cut down on some of those "dues". Research the forum and you'll benefit greatly from their experience.
There's a learning period with any hobby or activity.
Once you pay enough "tuition", you'll have enough teachers to make the hobby more satisfying.
Okay, I'm $327,000,000 in. What should I have learned?
$327,000,000? Maybe you should have learned the proper placing of decimal points. Or learned nothing because being so wealthy covers for any lack of knowledge. Either way I'll bet the ranch that you've enjoyed every minute of it all. Win, lose, or draw. $327,000,000! WOW!!!!
Wow. Now all you need to do to be made whole is go find that Jesuit treasure the guys are looking for on that Snake Island show before they do.
It's not as bad as some profess. Our hobby being fraught with so many mine fields, that is. In my honest opinion. Caveat Emptor.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The best way to avoid this situation in the short term is to consider a seller's reputation and return privileges so you can minimize surprises and protect yourself.
"Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill"
The biggest risks are with the raw coin sellers and certain auctions like that. I would ask what the rules of the dealers and auction are as others have suggested. If you get stung with mis-represented material either exchange for good stuff or return and if denied go over their heads. Many show managers these days will do what they can to be go betweens with their dealers and customers.
If you are finding items you purchased to be counterfeit or harshly damaged, I would recommend purchasing only slabbed coins, and stick with PCGS or NGC. You could also stick with PNG dealers, who are held to a certain ethical standard. You will pay more, but the chances of getting a damaged or fake coin are of course much less. There are fake slabs out there, and the very rare fake coin that makes it into a real slab, but these are the rare outliers. In general, when buying over the internet, it's considered "sight unseen" even if you have pictures, as you never really know what the item will look like in hand.
Some of the worst trap coins I've ever bought or had sent to me on approval came from PNG dealers....at least 6 PNG dealers I can think of off-hand. Though with some thought I might be able to double or triple that. A slab typically only limits your risk to 30-50%. Though on some moderns and high grade issues, it can be as high at 90%. Better than the mid-1980's where your risk was typically 30-75%.
Finding and creating a relationship with a trusted dealer that both has a return policy and will buy back strong will help reduce the amount of tuition you need to pay.
you should have learned that everything is relative. That number impresses most of us, even if we're "in" for 1/10, 1/4 or 1/2 that. On the other hand, there are members here whose worst coin is worth more than that.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
There's a coin worth more than $327,000,000?
LoL,blame it on my small screen, aging eyes, and especially Mr. Daniel's
Thought he said $327,000,00
Anyway, we've all paid our dues in proportion to our time and activity in the hobby.
Hang in there OP, let's hear about YOUR discoveries to get the stories started
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
The hobby has a lot of challenges these days. Counterfeiting, gradeflation, boring Mint issues, electronic money, etc. all contribute in their own way to making it 'less fun'.
K
Yes, there are shysters out there, and yes, there are sellers who really do not know they are selling dreck or fakes. The hobby is not just about acquiring nice coins, it is also about learning the technical aspects of numismatics. There is also the accompanying history of many of the coins we collect. If one just looks at coins as pretty baubles, and buys in that manner, than yes, there will be problems. If one studies, consults and participates fully in the hobby, then it can be very engaging and mistakes, though possible, are few and become fewer with numismatic maturity. Cheers, RickO
I hear this a lot, but have not ever experienced it. Envy those who have found it. As for 327,000,000 - I have a one of a kind %#^*{%}# for you - for only a tenth of that.
I can't speak for others here on the forum, but for me? I can honestly say that the experts on here have saved me thousands of dollars, as well as creating rewarding relationships and a greater love for this hobby. Books are great and teach us much, but the personal relationships here have been priceless.
to some extent, i concur.
most sellers arent going to know the expectations of most of their buyers. some people will buy just about anything, usually price dependent. i fall in/out of that category.
if a buyer has certain expectations, they should state them politely and concisely or not complain when they dont get the results they'd hoped for. its a simple and effective method to ask. i'm really referring to coins, say $3k and lower and mostly under $1k.
educating ones self, is still the best protection in any area of life. consulting others is good backup.
one of the best "free" educations ive received from numismatics is to look at a LOT of coins and coin images. i was amazed how much i learned in my first 6-18 months from looking a thousands+ of images of different us type. the rest just takes a lot of action and/or years.
it one just dabbles, their experience with be on-par with effort.
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There are dealers out there this way but it's important to find one with the coins that you want. There are even threads about this on the forums, e.g. "dealers that buy back strong". If you can't find them, you can always ask here for good dealers in your areas of focus.
I've asked questions here and other forums, both about collecting areas in general and specific coins which has been very helpful in reducing tuition paid to teachers.
I have also recommended numismatic journalists here write about directing new collectors to forums for more information.
I've been purchasing raw coins on eBay for about 6 years now. Most of them have been XF to AU Barbers submitted for grading. At first I had a terrible success rate, but gradually I've learned (for the most part) to weed out the problem coins. My guess is about 99% of the coins I view online are obvious junk. Of those I purchase about half are returned because the problem couldn't be seen in the listing photos. About 90% of the raw coins I submit straight grade now.
I would agree that online raw coin sales are a minefield, but I've snagged my share of spectacular deals while paying tuition. Unless one learns from mistakes, however, the online raw market is way too dangerous a place to explore.
I don't get burned often these days, but I can definitely relate to finding a great buy on a coin of great value only to open the package and immediately see a problem. And then spending the next hour trying to convince myself that it's really not cleaned. And then saying goodbye to the spectacular deal as it slides into the return package. But if it were easy everyone would do it and the hobby would no longer be fun.
The only minefields I've encountered is gradeflatiion but there are ways to navigate around that as well. Since I make the final decisions on what I buy and who I buy from all purchases are on me. The dealers I use have actually saved me a ton of money and being naturally picky helps.
I find this hobby as enjoyable as all of my others.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Since the op asked about actual experiences, I will tell you a true and slightly embarrassing-to-me story.
Several years ago I was putting together a set of Morgan dollars as I could afford. I was getting close to completing the set but I still lacked key date, the 1893-S. My access to coins at this time was limited to a couple of local shops and one small regional coin show a year. I also had one dealer that I knew who traveled to the larger shows and would bring me occasional Morgans from my want-list. But finding the key dates and having enough money to buy them was a huge problem.
That brings me to a well known dealer who travels to all of the major coin shows and the larger regional shows. He is also a member and leader of coin organizations and teaches at the summer seminars. I had the opportunity to look through his inventory at the time and he had my white whale. An 1893-S in a two-by-two labeled as extra fine. It was a nice coin and looked original but I thought it looked more like a high end VF. It didn't matter because I couldn't come up with the $2,800 to buy it anyway. But he assured me, based on his vast experience and grading skills that were way beyond my own (which was true) that it was a solid XF coin. And best of all, he was willing to sell it to me on layaway. I still thought the grade was optimistic, to say the least, but the chance to buy it on payments was too good to pass up, so I bought it.
There was no guarantee or buy back, but the dealer did tell me that he was so sure of the grade that he would take it back on trade at $2,800 on one of his higher graded or more expensive coins.
I paid it off over the next few months and was thrilled to finally have my key date Morgan. Shortly after I went to visit one of the local shops to see what they had. Of course they had an 1893-S for $1,200 that was a full grade higher than the one I had just purchased.
D'oh
What to do? I did the only logical thing I could do. I sold several coins and put together every dollar I could and bought the $1,200 coin. So now I had two key coins.
Some time later I returned to the dealer who had sold me the first coin and had a stroke of good luck. He had a beautiful 1889-CC Morgan in stock. It was the nicest that I had seen up to that time and priced at $3,600 which was top dollar but this coin was all there. So I again sold more coins and scraped up the difference. I traded it back to the dealer who had sold it to me for the $2,800 as he had agreed plus $800 to make the purchase at $3,600. He made the trade only reluctantly at my insistence but he did do it. But he also made me throw in the 1889-CC that was in my set and was a well worn very good.
That made me buried in this coin at the time but I didn't care. It was the nicest Morgan I owned and it eventually was graded AU55 by PCGS. PCGS also graded the $1,200 1893-S XF40.
So what had started out as a disaster actually had a good ending. I don't tell this story to cast shade on the dealer who sold me the over graded and vastly over priced coin. In fact I still know him. We are friends and I still buy and sell coins with him and have done so recently. I just tell this story as a near miss as the op asked for. Also to confirm what others have said that you need to know your series and how to grade it. Also you should listen to the advice of your trusted dealer but no matter who he/she is, they are looking out for themselves first and you need to do the same.
And if a deal looks just a little too good, maybe you should wait for the next one.
Some of the biggest names can be the worst.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"