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2014 one ounce Gold Eagles found struck on 24kt Gold Buffalo planchets
CaptHenway
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From Coin World online:
https://www.coinworld.com/news...tals&utm_content=#
Check your 2014 one ounce eagles. Weight test is simplest. Normal 22kt planchet 33.93 grams. Error 24kt planchet 31.1 grams.
https://www.coinworld.com/news...tals&utm_content=#
Check your 2014 one ounce eagles. Weight test is simplest. Normal 22kt planchet 33.93 grams. Error 24kt planchet 31.1 grams.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
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The two NGC-graded coins were subsequently broken out of their NGC holders, and one of the coins was submitted to PCGS, where it was certified as a wrong planchet error. Garofalo said APMEX officials plan to submit the second example to PCGS as well.
Would it be thinner visually? Obviously the die press would shape it correctly, but I'd think it would be thinner than a regular eagle.
The thickness of the finished coin is determined by the distance between the two dies, so while the planchet thickness may differ between the two issues, it is unlikely that there will be any perceptible visual difference on the struck coins.
Sean Reynolds
"Keep in mind that most of what passes as numismatic information is no more than tested opinion at best, and marketing blather at worst. However, I try to choose my words carefully, since I know that you guys are always watching." - Joe O'Connor
Would it be thinner visually?
edit: I've answered my own question.
Specs on apmex
Eagle
Thickness: 2.95 mm
Diameter: 32.7 mm
Buff:
Thickness: 2.87 mm
Diameter: 32.7 mm
Thickness is typically measured at the rim on the struck coin. Perhaps the Buffalo design has a high rim to protect the central details. 24kt gold is soft, and the central design could scratch easily.
as mentioned above, the diameter is the
same for both pieces.
The other main difference (not counting the
difference in fineness and weight) is that the coin
has a much more 'yellow gold' color to it, due
to the lack of the copper that is in the more
'reddish gold' AGE's.
It's quite apparent when seen in-hand.........
I've handled the first and only known ASE on
a Silver Commemorative Dollar planchet twice,
and I find this coin quite impressive as a gold
'Wrong Planchet' error, even though the diameters
are the same for both pieces.
My YouTube Channel
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
TD
They're sending the 2nd one to PCGS,
after they got the first one back with the
Mint Error label, etc.
Mine weighed 33.93. Back in the junk box.
I know right, I wonder how many people will be checking. Every time I have checked for an error it's always been a miss.
I find it interesting that NGC missed it. Nice job PCGS.
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Mine weighed 33.93. Back in the junk box.
I know right, I wonder how many people will be checking. Every time I have checked for an error it's always been a miss.
I find it interesting that NGC missed it. Nice job PCGS.
I wonder what the turnaround times where on the two company submissions. cough. cough. In my first post I said
Pick 2:
- correct
- cheap
- fast
I was most surprised to see the the note about the Silver Eagle struck on a commemorative $1 planchet selling for so much. I suspect that these two gold errors will have to sell privately as well to achieve that price level. There simply isn't the collector backing of modern gold errors like there is for classic gold errors. Maybe I'm just out of touch with errors of this magnitude
Surprising that they could allow this to happen with gold planchets at the mint. Seems like there would be gold unaccounted for.
Good point, perhaps there are an equal number of Buffs struck on AGE planchets in a sort of 1 for 1 swap.
Collector, occasional seller
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I wonder how many the Mint made? Could they have run an entire box of 24kt planchets through the Eagle press? If so, how many in a box?
probably two buff planchets left in the press before an AGE run.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
I wonder how many the Mint made? Could they have run an entire box of 24kt planchets through the Eagle press? If so, how many in a box?
probably two buff planchets left in the press before an AGE run.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Surprising that they could allow this to happen with gold planchets at the mint. Seems like there would be gold unaccounted for.
I was most surprised to see the the note about the Silver Eagle struck on a commemorative $1 planchet selling for so much. I suspect that these two gold errors will have to sell privately as well to achieve that price level. There simply isn't the collector backing of modern gold errors like there is for classic gold errors. Maybe I'm just out of touch with errors of this magnitude
Theoretically there is no gold missing, but at the end of the year their inventory numbers of 22kt and 24kt planchets should have been off by an offsetting number.
the difference when you have it in-hand.
Fred, if you can see the color difference, I'm clearly in the shallow end of the pool!
I wonder if that's why early 2006 buffalos had a reddish rinse applied to them, so they'd look deeper, more like the coppery gold people are used to.
Tom, there are two of them -
They're sending the 2nd one to PCGS,
after they got the first one back with the
Mint Error label, etc.
The discovery could have been confirmed earlier, but the submission took 87 work days to grade due to current turnaround times. The second coin is expected to be graded by Christmas 2017
8 Reales Madness Collection
But what a neat find!
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
Unfortunately the PMV will not automatically determine metal content of your coin. It depends on you to “set” it to the metal conten you wish to verify and will then confirm if the metal you are testing is in fact authentic. It is basically a "go, no-go" electronic instrument that is priceless in determining if your precious metal item is only plated with the precious metal or if the precious metal content is continuous throughout the item. A resulting “bar” within the instrument screen’s brackets indicates an authentic item. A result outside of the screen’s brackets indicates an item that is not authentic or one that is plated, based strictly on the metal content setting selected by the user.
I ran some tests with the PMV on known authentic one ounce AGEs and gold buffalos. And, yes, it will identify, in a roundabout way, an AGE that has been struck on a 24k planchet.
The first test is of both coins, raw and slabbed with the PMV set to measure “GOLD – PURE .999+.” As you can see from the photos the instrument correctly recognizes the 24k gold buffalo while the 22k AGE shows up as “not authentic” on the 24k setting.
Next I set the PMV to “GOLD – AMERICAN EAGLE” and ran the same test. Again the PMV will only authenticating an item whose metal content matches the instrument’s setting.
Test results show that the PMV can be used to correctly determine if the planchet contains the gold content selected by the instrument user. To determine if your gold eagle was struck on a gold buffalo 24k planchet, simply select the setting for testing a gold buffalo - “GOLD- PURE .999+.” If your results fall within the display’s brackets you have a winner – an AGE struck on a gold buffalo planchet.
Now that I have posted the pics of the two different coins I can see the more "yellow" gold of the buffalo. I can't see it with coins in hand.
IMPORTANT NOTE: since the PMV will authenticate based on the metal selected by the user, we now know that an authentic coin struck on the wrong planchet will show up as not authentic with the PMV. For this reason, before discounting a coin as plated or counterfeit, make sure you test it at other metal content settings. You may discover the next wrong planchet bullion coin.
For the final test I pulled the only 2014 $50 gold eagle in my inventory to see if I had a winner. Test results confirmed it’s just another run-of-the-mill American Gold Eagle.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
It's a little hard to believe a couple planchets were just "left in the press." I saw a video of the striking of the 2016 Standing Lib quarters a while back and they bring a tray with slots for each planchet to the press, put each planchet in individually, struck it, and placed it back in the same slot of the tray. Not sure how many slots a tray of 1 oz planchets has, maybe 30? Now maybe just a couple wrong planchets were placed on the tray but perhaps an entire tray of 20 or more were struck.
Because of their volume, bullion coins such as the generic business strike ASE, AGE and gold buff are mass produced in bulk, mostly an automated, machine fed process. Proof versions and special issues such as the Standing Lib gold receive special handling at the press with "hands on" feeding.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
No further reports of 2014 errors yet.... I imagine most have checked their inventory by now.. Cheers, RickO
Any comments about value?
Could there be other years that this has happened?
anything is possible
anything is possible
Has anybody checked the pop reports for these?
Given how different they appear in hand, it would be great to see two AGEs side by side via TrueViews (for those of us that can't see the 24K AGE in hand).
As a process sciences guy by profession, with a quality control background, I'd be fascinated to learn the mechanism by which this error occurs at the Mint.
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
Baley, having a similar background, I totally agree. Would love to have the opportunity to analyze this at the mint. Cheers, RickO
Yes, but remember that 10% of the average work week is a Monday morning!
Even poka-yoke won't stop a mint employee from having fun from time to time
Anyone have a link to the Silver Eagle error?
bob
coinworld.com/news/precious-metals/2015/10/check-your-1998-american-eagles-they-might-be-on-wrong-planchet.html
Thanks and interesting article and a hearty YOU SUCK to that original finder!!
bob
Wouldn't the two different planchets have a different ring tone? The few times I tried AGE's vs. 0.999 fine 1 oz gold coins the AGE's had a clearer bell tone similar to pre-1934 90% classic US gold, while the pure gold coins were quite muted, almost dead sounding in comparison.
Yes, the harder alloyed 22kt gold eagle planchet would have a better ring than the softer 24kt planchet, but I don't know that a noisy mint would be the best place to be listening for it. Nor would you conduct the test unless you had a suspicion that some planchets had been accidentally switched or misapplied. Once you did have a suspicion, it would be simpler to just check the weight.
Or, the two wrong planchets were put with the AGE planchets by the supplier before they were ever sent to and inventoried by the US Mint.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left