Question for Coin Dealers
stevepk
Posts: 238 ✭✭✭
How often do you encounter a prospective seller who obviously knows nothing about coins who tries to sell something at an outrageous price based on absolutely no logic whatsoever?
I enjoy browsing Craigs List for coins and time after time read posts that make me wonder what goes on through these people's heads. This is not exclusive to the infamous 'Craig List'.
When I value something, I find some type of reference. It could be a price guide, auction achieves, or perhaps just a little logic driven by the concept of supply and demand. Suppose I was dealing in something completely outside of my area of expertise. Suppose I was trying to price a Faberge Egg or a Porcelain doll. Although I know nothing about either, I would find some sort of reference material and do my best to match comparable examples based on manufacture, condition, or whatever they key variables are. If I thought I had something of value, I would be even more conscious of the details to ensure I am comparing 'apples to apples'. Virtually everyone has access to the Internet today and research is easy to do. I don't understand why a non-collector cannot use this same approach to coin valuation when attempting to sell. I understand coin valuation can be tricky and is not an exact science, but at some point a valuation is just plain wrong.
As a dealer, how often do you encounter someone who attempts to sell something ordinary or damaged at an absolutely absurd asking price that makes no sense at all? It's like they are pulling fantasy numbers out of thin air. Can anyone attempt to explain their thought process? I might understand if we lived in 1985 and valuing something required making a trip to the library and finding the microfiche slide, but this is 2016.
I enjoy browsing Craigs List for coins and time after time read posts that make me wonder what goes on through these people's heads. This is not exclusive to the infamous 'Craig List'.
When I value something, I find some type of reference. It could be a price guide, auction achieves, or perhaps just a little logic driven by the concept of supply and demand. Suppose I was dealing in something completely outside of my area of expertise. Suppose I was trying to price a Faberge Egg or a Porcelain doll. Although I know nothing about either, I would find some sort of reference material and do my best to match comparable examples based on manufacture, condition, or whatever they key variables are. If I thought I had something of value, I would be even more conscious of the details to ensure I am comparing 'apples to apples'. Virtually everyone has access to the Internet today and research is easy to do. I don't understand why a non-collector cannot use this same approach to coin valuation when attempting to sell. I understand coin valuation can be tricky and is not an exact science, but at some point a valuation is just plain wrong.
As a dealer, how often do you encounter someone who attempts to sell something ordinary or damaged at an absolutely absurd asking price that makes no sense at all? It's like they are pulling fantasy numbers out of thin air. Can anyone attempt to explain their thought process? I might understand if we lived in 1985 and valuing something required making a trip to the library and finding the microfiche slide, but this is 2016.
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or even more so a common date morgan in UNC, and they think there 1880-s is worth 500 bucks, because they went on line and found a PCGS 67 selling for that much, they have no differentiation of grading or what being holdered means, they just see that its the same type and or dat of their own coin. I get this an awful lot.
I am glad some folks do a little research before they go to sell, because there are several folks still in the business that thrive on the unknowledgeable and take them to the cleaners, but sometimes its a nusiance and makes it impossible to buy , because they think you are trying to rip them off when they have little value to what they see on line.
But as jdimmick noted, I think GRADING is where the wheels come off, sometimes. To some, "It looks really good" is the same as Uncirculated.
My bosses-boss found out I was a collector, and brought some Morgans over for me to look at. "These are uncirculated, right?" Well, they were AU, or AU-cleaned, but I could tell he had never actually SEEN a true uncirculated Morgan. I brought a couple slabbed ones in later in the week, and the lightbulb went on. "Oh...those look much better than mine....."
Here is a quick example. Sure, the bezel could be platinum, but somehow I doubt it. I will admit I am not an expert on Mexican 20 centavos, but I don't think this is a key date. How does someone determine this is worth $200?
I'm sure I can find a dozen more examples if I spend some time looking for them.
I encounter coin sellers asking unrealistic asking prices all the time. Not there to educate them lol. I simply offer what I pay then they can shop it around. Many times I have a sign at my table "Cash paid for Coins and Currency." I lay the money on the table when making offer, if they want to pass on that then their loss not mine.
Its sad when you see people who obviously were ripped on the buy transaction trying to get something near it when the market simply has moved away or never got there. Lately I have seen people trying get moon money for some stickered coin they paid for up in the stratosphere.
One of my first attempts to buy a "coin accumulation" in 1988 was with a gentleman who owned a pile of silver dollars. At that time the price of silver was $6-$7. I figured I'd be able to buy those for not a lot more. After spending an hour going through the hoard the old guy says, "well what do you think?" After tossing out my number of around $8-$12 per coin, he was visibly upset. He had bought them in the silver craze of late 1979/early 1980 ($25-$35 each) and couldn't let them go for anything less. My first lesson in not asking the right questions up front. He thought I was plainly trying to rip him off. No way they could only be worth a third or less of what he paid.
That guy had some thought process behind his valuation. He paid a fair price at the time for his silver dollars and made the assumption the coins would slowly and gradually appreciate in value over time. This is not a completely absurd concept. He was just unlucky. He probably did not keep a vigilant eye on the spot price of silver and was taken by surprise when the price of silver dropped. This is admittedly an amateur move and he probably should have done a bit more research on historic prices of silver and had a better grasp of the precious metals market before diving in, but at least there was some form of brain activity in his head that helped him determine the value of his silver dollars.
Suppose he paid $35 apiece for his silver dollars and expected to sell them for $350 apiece a few years later under the assumption they are worth a fortune because they are dated from the 1800's and he felt this was the rate of return he was entitled to. This is the thought process I question. From where do these people get their numbers?
One of my first attempts to buy a "coin accumulation" in 1988 was with a gentleman who owned a pile of silver dollars. At that time the price of silver was $6-$7. I figured I'd be able to buy those for not a lot more. After spending an hour going through the hoard the old guy says, "well what do you think?" After tossing out my number of around $8-$12 per coin, he was visibly upset. He had bought them in the silver craze of late 1979/early 1980 ($25-$35 each) and couldn't let them go for anything less. My first lesson in not asking the right questions up front. He thought I was plainly trying to rip him off. No way they could only be worth a third or less of what he paid.
Also, in 1988, most people did not have access to the Internet. Even if they did, the Internet of 1988 was nothing like it is today in 2016. Back then you had to pick up a newspaper or go to the library to check the current spot price of silver. Checking the price of silver or attempting to research the value of a coin required more work and was more difficult than it is today. I don't understand someone who obviously has the computer skills to post an ad on Craigs List in 2016 but cannot use those same skills to do a bit of research beforehand.
Non coin-collectors really have no idea why someone would pay 100x or a 1000x more for a coin with one date over an identical coin with a different date. Not even to mention the concept of grades and condition rarity.
Imagine you're in a clothes shop, and you're shown hundreds of almost identical-looking garments. Then the shop owner tells you some clothes are worth $5 and the others are worth $5000, based on difference that you can't see such as something written on a label, or an almost invisible difference in the color, or the form of the stitches, or whatever. You shake your head in disbelief and go home, only to find such a garment in your own closet. You rush back to the shop, hoping it's like the $5000 ones, but the shop owner just frowns and offers you $5. It all looks the same to you. Do you take his offer, or do you feel he's taking advantage of you? Across the street there's another shop, would you try there as well?
That's how non-collectors feel when they look at our coins.
Logic has nothing to do with it. Also, if two of these types of folks do a deal and one sells and overpriced item to another that now has something "rare" they both continue the fantasy. Magical thinking....
Also, there are those people who think everyone is just trying to rip them off and it is not going to happen to them.
The point is, its all in the head until they are open to the truth. If they are closed to the truth nothing or no one can hurt them....
Understanding this will not change their behavior....THEIR behavior,.... so you must understand your behavior and not be offended as they know not what they are doing......
I enjoy browsing Craigs List for coins and time after time read posts that make me wonder what goes on through these people's heads. This is not exclusive to the infamous 'Craig List'.
Craigs list says it all. What? "Time after time" , wondering what is going thru peoples heads?
Its Craigs list. You should up your game.