A New Esoteric Series To Collect! Mexico 1811-1814 SUD Coinage

ambro51 · August 24, 2016 2:42AM

So I've found a new series to learn and collect. Certainly esoteric, crude copper, little understood and for a change fairly inexpensive. I'm speaking of the coinage of the Oaxaca region of Mexico under General Moreales during the Mexican War of Independence 1811-1814. This crude coinage served to pay the "wages" of the 70 thousand insurgents under arms (pitchforks, spears, bow and arrows) in the south of Mexico. If the revolution was triumphant the copper coins could be exchanged for silver. Coins were struck in many locations in a crude manner. The 8 real coins are about 35 mm and can weigh well over 20 grams, or they can be thinner. The whole coinage is all over the map with different dies and varieties. Rarity is misunderstood and seems not to be much of a factor in most cases. Some break the AU line and can look very nice but for the most part F-VF is generally found. Some are AG also. Ill add that the inscription SUD refers by the Spanish to "South", which is where they were. the arrow pointed up i suppose is a politically coorect way to say "attack the North".••••••••••••••••••••••••••••So.....just really learning this series I made three buys off eBay. The first is a known variety of the 8 real coin, its an error date, misstamped 18 812 for the date. All 1812 8 reals are scarce but this one is a distinct and understood variety. I really like the color. The second 8 reals is an 1813, typical or the more ornate issues. Again a variety here as the 3 in the date is rounded. Of known rarity the angle top 3 coins outnumber this 20 to 1. Of lighter weight is has a nice color also. The 1812 2 reals seems to be the commonest (by number) piece of the series with a huge number of dies (at least over 50) seen. I like this one for type with its nice patina and eye appeal. It's typical of the SUD issues and quite attractive. These were all hand made coins. There are a lot of pieces to study and way farther to go. It's nice to buy a few coins again! [URL=http://s249.photobucket.com/user/ambro51/media/Mobile Uploads/image_zpss8ewrons.jpg.html]

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ElKevvo · August 24, 2016 2:55AM

Pretty cool. Thanks for posting with the history info!

K

Flatwoods · August 24, 2016 3:04AM

Cool coins.

Good luck with the hunt.

ambro51 · August 24, 2016 10:15AM

I spent $67,520 for the first one

cmerlo1 · August 24, 2016 10:40AM

They kind of remind me of Texas Jolas in a way...

HandH · August 24, 2016 10:44AM

Really interesting. Come on over to the dark side. Good luck hunting.

bjamin · August 24, 2016 3:57PM

Originally posted by: ambro51
I spent $67,520 for the first one

?

ricko · August 25, 2016 2:30AM

Interesting... was not aware of these coins...thanks for the history. Cheers, RickO

coinhack · August 25, 2016 4:15AM

Originally posted by: ambro51
I spent $67,520 for the first one

You paid too much. I could have sold you one for under $60,000

ambro51 · August 25, 2016 6:56AM

Yes RickO I've gone beyond the limit and posted something the whole peanut gallery is unfamiliar with. I've outesotericed them. :-) BTW the "scratches" on the middle piece are not PMD. Many coins show these as does the zlPCGS coin facts MS62. They currently have 18 copper issues slab bed.

Bob1951 · August 25, 2016 7:01AM

Does this count?--I have one of the counterfeit-looking 8 reales from 1812-don't know what area it is from though. They were cast,not struck, by the government, thus look fake.

ambro51 · August 25, 2016 9:24AM

Wow I've posted something Bill Jones hasn't offered opinions/information on!! Yikes!!

RYK · August 25, 2016 9:53AM

Originally posted by: ambro51

I spent $67,520 for the first one

Really? In that case you should have your head examined.

(Rude? Perhaps, but I said what most of you were thinking.

)

ambro51 · August 25, 2016 11:16AM

.....just trying to get the thread rebooted after it died with only 15 words of response from this learned aggregation of numismatists. It's only a $100 coin. Ghe other two were much less.

ambro51 · August 25, 2016 11:17AM

On and I DID have my head examined by a Phrenologist.

msch1man · August 25, 2016 11:35AM

I think that qualifies as a fairly esoteric series...I had certainly never heard of them before. Did the Vermonts (if memory serves me that was what you were into) just get too mainstream?

ambro51 · August 25, 2016 12:37PM

Similar early crude copper as are the Canadian Blacksmith Tokens. I find these early issues so appealing. The 2 Real arrived today beautiful color a tad bigger than a nickel but thinner than a dime. Slightly irregular planchet, a nice problem free 200 year old copper.

howards · August 25, 2016 5:54PM

The SUD coins are pretty cool.

Many years ago I became interested in coins of the Mexican Revolution. Lots of interesting stuff there, some of it quite rare. Here's my web page dedicated to RevMex:

http://www.shieldnickels.net/revmex/revMex.html

Staircoins · January 2, 2017 5:22PM

(Forgive me for being late to the party. Just now seeing this thread ...)

@cmerlo1 said:
They kind of remind me of Texas Jolas in a way...

These remind me of New Spain (Texas) 1/2 Reals quite a bit. After all the Jolas were made in 1817 & 1818, only a few short years after these coins, and were produced by basically the same methods, perhaps 1100 miles north.

Were I to hazard a guess, I'd conjecture that the scarcity of the two issues might be roughly comparable. Of course, the values are not. So we're left with yet another example of how much more impact demand has on price than supply.

Great coins, Ambro!

Zoins · January 2, 2017 5:44PM

Great thread to bring up again!

How is the collection going Ambro?

ricko · January 3, 2017 6:27AM

Nice to see this again.... any further acquisitions?? Cheers, RickO

A New Esoteric Series To Collect! Mexico 1811-1814 SUD Coinage

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