Originally posted by: TomB I don't know that I would call 52% vs. 48% with approximately 1.2 million votes difference razor thin at all. Regardless, they were offered the referendum and have two-years, plus a third year if desired, to work out the necessary treaties after they enact Article 50 of the Treaty on EU and may even wait many more months before activating the clock. What are they supposed to do; remove 52% of the UK from the EU? Alternatively, do they ignore the clear majority of voters because it is more expedient and orderly in the short-term?
Had 24,000 leave people voted remain, the vote would have swung the other way. Not a large margin. I agree a clear majority voted to leave, but it's a narrow clear majority. There's a lot of divide in Great Britain with Scottish independence and Northern Ireland uniting with Ireland real possibilities in the near-term. Great Britain's major issue isn't how to leave the EU but how to unite as Britons.
Originally posted by: TomB I don't know that I would call 52% vs. 48% with approximately 1.2 million votes difference razor thin at all. Regardless, they were offered the referendum and have two-years, plus a third year if desired, to work out the necessary treaties after they enact Article 50 of the Treaty on EU and may even wait many more months before activating the clock. What are they supposed to do; remove 52% of the UK from the EU? Alternatively, do they ignore the clear majority of voters because it is more expedient and orderly in the short-term?
Had 24,000 leave people voted remain, the vote would have swung the other way. Not a large margin. I agree a clear majority voted to leave, but it's a narrow clear majority. There's a lot of divide in Great Britain with Scottish independence and Northern Ireland uniting with Ireland real possibilities in the near-term. Great Britain's major issue isn't how to leave the EU but how to unite as Britons.
I realize this isn't a popular opinion in this thread, but I am still thrilled for the people of the UK. They were given the opportunity to vote in a referendum, they came out in large number (around 72% voter participation) and they debated the choice vigorously for four-plus months. Anyone who wanted to be educated on the topic prior to voting had the opportunity to do so, which makes me believe quite a few were aware of how Northern Ireland or Scotland might have voted. Scotland voted perhaps 62% to remain, if I recall correctly, and they voted something like 56% to remain in the UK two years ago. Does this mean that they will hold another referendum to leave the UK shortly and that they will leave? Perhaps, but if that is their will then that is their will.
It seems that most stock markets, financial markets and banks wanted the UK to remain in the EU, but I would much rather hear the voice of the people than the voice of money. I would bet there is short-term pain for the folks in the UK, but I am not sold that the long-term consequences are so dire or that they outweigh the potential freedom in policy that the UK might now experience once again. I'm happy for the people in the UK and quite interested to see how this plays out.
Not unpopular. I agree. It is democracy at its finest. There are a lot of doomsday scenarios being thrown around by financial guys like me, but in reality this is uncharted territory and no one really knows how it will all play out.
Democracy at it's finest in the form of a referendum would likely have led to a continuation of slavery in 1865 when the 13th amendment was ratified and the same with the right to vote for women in 1920.
the hyperbole is pretty thick in some of these posts.
Gee, ya think?
The point of the hyperbole was to recall for us what Europeans were trying to address and dispel after not only their two ruinous wars, but after all the tribalism and competitive power ethos that had violently preceded those particular wars for a millennium and a half.
I don't know, of course, where the Brexit will lead. I do perceive that history progresses in fits and starts, and that advances meet intermittent resistances before advances resume. Just because globalization (appears) inexorable doesn't mean that there won't be moves to delay or undo it, from people whose lives, livelihoods, customs and values are acutely disrupted. We just happen to live in a time when the resistances are in ascendency (immigration resistance, moves toward more protectionism, ISIS, al Qaeda et al., nationalist movements in many places, etc.), and the outcome of all that in the short and medium term is unsettlingly uncertain.
What we DO know is that the idealized reinstatement of more settled and secure times will NOT be the result of these movements.
Originally posted by: Ed62 The long British nightmare of unity and prosperity may soon be over.
And yet the millions in the majority disagree. It's not unexpected that many in the minority insist upon painting the majority as stupid, racist, or worse.
I realize this isn't a popular opinion in this thread, but I am still thrilled for the people of the UK. They were given the opportunity to vote in a referendum, they came out in large number (around 72% voter participation) and they debated the choice vigorously for four-plus months. Anyone who wanted to be educated on the topic prior to voting had the opportunity to do so, which makes me believe quite a few were aware of how Northern Ireland or Scotland might have voted. Scotland voted perhaps 62% to remain, if I recall correctly, and they voted something like 56% to remain in the UK two years ago. Does this mean that they will hold another referendum to leave the UK shortly and that they will leave? Perhaps, but if that is their will then that is their will.
It seems that most stock markets, financial markets and banks wanted the UK to remain in the EU, but I would much rather hear the voice of the people than the voice of money. I would bet there is short-term pain for the folks in the UK, but I am not sold that the long-term consequences are so dire or that they outweigh the potential freedom in policy that the UK might now experience once again. I'm happy for the people in the UK and quite interested to see how this plays out.
As I partial Brit, I agree
Yorkshireman,Obsessed collector of round, metallic pieces of history.Hunting for Latin American colonial portraits plus cool US & British coins.
It will take YEARS before Great Britain implements full exit from the EU. And most important they did not implement the Euro. Everything that has happened in the last 48 hours is nothing more than a short term knee-jerk reaction.
Gold will go through many more cycles before Britain fully exits the EU.
Just my opinion...this was a stupid mistake on the part of GB.
"Just because you were born on 3rd base doesn't mean you hit a triple"
Originally posted by: Boosibri Democracy at it's finest in the form of a referendum would likely have led to a continuation of slavery in 1865 when the 13th amendment was ratified and the same with the right to vote for women in 1920.
Originally posted by: TomB I don't know that I would call 52% vs. 48% with approximately 1.2 million votes difference razor thin at all. Regardless, they were offered the referendum and have two-years, plus a third year if desired, to work out the necessary treaties after they enact Article 50 of the Treaty on EU and may even wait many more months before activating the clock. What are they supposed to do; remove 52% of the UK from the EU? Alternatively, do they ignore the clear majority of voters because it is more expedient and orderly in the short-term?
Had 24,000 leave people voted remain, the vote would have swung the other way. Not a large margin. I agree a clear majority voted to leave, but it's a narrow clear majority. There's a lot of divide in Great Britain with Scottish independence and Northern Ireland uniting with Ireland real possibilities in the near-term. Great Britain's major issue isn't how to leave the EU but how to unite as Britons.
1.2 million == 24,000 ???
Nevermind. I read the previous post as 1.2 million total votes cast. But, the 1.2 million margin means 600,000 would have needed to vote differently for the outcome to have switched.
Originally posted by: Ed62 The long British nightmare of unity and prosperity may soon be over.
Prosperity is something most Brits have not seen for a couple of decades. Their unity is mostly limited to football and life at the pub. This I have witnessed first hand.
Brexit will increase their chances of prosperity.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Seems the British populace is already having buyers remorse. Oh, the joys of populism. Lol
I have seen the stories about the petition for a revote. 2 million people have signed. But are those people who voted to remain and just want another shot. Or are they people who changed their mind ? My hunch is that it is people who lost and want another chance as opposed to remorse
I am glad for the UK. How could anyone be? Well to be honest talk with a UK farmer, a UK fisherman, etc etc etc. The EU parliament is not elected and is just a bureaucratic bloat of a mess. This will streamline the UK and make them more competitive. As for having the best of both worlds, the UK did not. The EU is done now, the UK was the buffer against Germany. France is a lost cause anyway.
If one really wants to ask what the benefit was, ask yourself who set it up? That's right the good of US of A and CI of A.
It hurt my portfolio but I am still happy and if but for one main reason, next up is Texas. They missed in the state legislature by two votes last time. This time will be different. Now I am from Texas but do not live there and I do not want to see the state leave the Union, however it is time the Feds get a black eye so to speak and the power be given back to the people and the States as was intended. Read Jefferson etc, they gave us a Republic and it was ours to protect, yet we have let it slip some. Freedom from Federal jurisdiction were it has NO place. Its time, the last 40 years has not been good to our Union.
Remember "Against all enemies both Foreign and Domestic".
Socialism works until you run out of other peoples money.......
** Edit ***
And it is time for the State Legislature to vote in Senators so they can be recalled when they fail to remember their constituents...
"A gun is like a parachute. If you need one, and don't have one, you'll probably never need one again.
“I want you to remember that no * ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb * die for his country”
Comments
I don't know that I would call 52% vs. 48% with approximately 1.2 million votes difference razor thin at all. Regardless, they were offered the referendum and have two-years, plus a third year if desired, to work out the necessary treaties after they enact Article 50 of the Treaty on EU and may even wait many more months before activating the clock. What are they supposed to do; remove 52% of the UK from the EU? Alternatively, do they ignore the clear majority of voters because it is more expedient and orderly in the short-term?
Had 24,000 leave people voted remain, the vote would have swung the other way. Not a large margin. I agree a clear majority voted to leave, but it's a narrow clear majority. There's a lot of divide in Great Britain with Scottish independence and Northern Ireland uniting with Ireland real possibilities in the near-term. Great Britain's major issue isn't how to leave the EU but how to unite as Britons.
I don't know that I would call 52% vs. 48% with approximately 1.2 million votes difference razor thin at all. Regardless, they were offered the referendum and have two-years, plus a third year if desired, to work out the necessary treaties after they enact Article 50 of the Treaty on EU and may even wait many more months before activating the clock. What are they supposed to do; remove 52% of the UK from the EU? Alternatively, do they ignore the clear majority of voters because it is more expedient and orderly in the short-term?
Had 24,000 leave people voted remain, the vote would have swung the other way. Not a large margin. I agree a clear majority voted to leave, but it's a narrow clear majority. There's a lot of divide in Great Britain with Scottish independence and Northern Ireland uniting with Ireland real possibilities in the near-term. Great Britain's major issue isn't how to leave the EU but how to unite as Britons.
1.2 million == 24,000 ???
I realize this isn't a popular opinion in this thread, but I am still thrilled for the people of the UK. They were given the opportunity to vote in a referendum, they came out in large number (around 72% voter participation) and they debated the choice vigorously for four-plus months. Anyone who wanted to be educated on the topic prior to voting had the opportunity to do so, which makes me believe quite a few were aware of how Northern Ireland or Scotland might have voted. Scotland voted perhaps 62% to remain, if I recall correctly, and they voted something like 56% to remain in the UK two years ago. Does this mean that they will hold another referendum to leave the UK shortly and that they will leave? Perhaps, but if that is their will then that is their will.
It seems that most stock markets, financial markets and banks wanted the UK to remain in the EU, but I would much rather hear the voice of the people than the voice of money. I would bet there is short-term pain for the folks in the UK, but I am not sold that the long-term consequences are so dire or that they outweigh the potential freedom in policy that the UK might now experience once again. I'm happy for the people in the UK and quite interested to see how this plays out.
Not unpopular. I agree. It is democracy at its finest. There are a lot of doomsday scenarios being thrown around by financial guys like me, but in reality this is uncharted territory and no one really knows how it will all play out.
Democracy at it's finest in the form of a referendum would likely have led to a continuation of slavery in 1865 when the 13th amendment was ratified and the same with the right to vote for women in 1920.
Latin American Collection
the hyperbole is pretty thick in some of these posts.
Gee, ya think?
The point of the hyperbole was to recall for us what Europeans were trying to address and dispel after not only their two ruinous wars, but after all the tribalism and competitive power ethos that had violently preceded those particular wars for a millennium and a half.
I don't know, of course, where the Brexit will lead. I do perceive that history progresses in fits and starts, and that advances meet intermittent resistances before advances resume. Just because globalization (appears) inexorable doesn't mean that there won't be moves to delay or undo it, from people whose lives, livelihoods, customs and values are acutely disrupted. We just happen to live in a time when the resistances are in ascendency (immigration resistance, moves toward more protectionism, ISIS, al Qaeda et al., nationalist movements in many places, etc.), and the outcome of all that in the short and medium term is unsettlingly uncertain.
What we DO know is that the idealized reinstatement of more settled and secure times will NOT be the result of these movements.
Here's a warning parable for coin collectors...
The long British nightmare of unity and prosperity may soon be over.
And yet the millions in the majority disagree. It's not unexpected that many in the minority insist upon painting the majority as stupid, racist, or worse.
I realize this isn't a popular opinion in this thread, but I am still thrilled for the people of the UK. They were given the opportunity to vote in a referendum, they came out in large number (around 72% voter participation) and they debated the choice vigorously for four-plus months. Anyone who wanted to be educated on the topic prior to voting had the opportunity to do so, which makes me believe quite a few were aware of how Northern Ireland or Scotland might have voted. Scotland voted perhaps 62% to remain, if I recall correctly, and they voted something like 56% to remain in the UK two years ago. Does this mean that they will hold another referendum to leave the UK shortly and that they will leave? Perhaps, but if that is their will then that is their will.
It seems that most stock markets, financial markets and banks wanted the UK to remain in the EU, but I would much rather hear the voice of the people than the voice of money. I would bet there is short-term pain for the folks in the UK, but I am not sold that the long-term consequences are so dire or that they outweigh the potential freedom in policy that the UK might now experience once again. I'm happy for the people in the UK and quite interested to see how this plays out.
As I partial Brit, I agree
Gold will go through many more cycles before Britain fully exits the EU.
Just my opinion...this was a stupid mistake on the part of GB.
"Just because you were born on 3rd base doesn't mean you hit a triple"
Democracy at it's finest in the form of a referendum would likely have led to a continuation of slavery in 1865 when the 13th amendment was ratified and the same with the right to vote for women in 1920.
Exactly.
I don't know that I would call 52% vs. 48% with approximately 1.2 million votes difference razor thin at all. Regardless, they were offered the referendum and have two-years, plus a third year if desired, to work out the necessary treaties after they enact Article 50 of the Treaty on EU and may even wait many more months before activating the clock. What are they supposed to do; remove 52% of the UK from the EU? Alternatively, do they ignore the clear majority of voters because it is more expedient and orderly in the short-term?
Had 24,000 leave people voted remain, the vote would have swung the other way. Not a large margin. I agree a clear majority voted to leave, but it's a narrow clear majority. There's a lot of divide in Great Britain with Scottish independence and Northern Ireland uniting with Ireland real possibilities in the near-term. Great Britain's major issue isn't how to leave the EU but how to unite as Britons.
1.2 million == 24,000 ???
Nevermind. I read the previous post as 1.2 million total votes cast. But, the 1.2 million margin means 600,000 would have needed to vote differently for the outcome to have switched.
The long British nightmare of unity and prosperity may soon be over.
Prosperity is something most Brits have not seen for a couple of decades. Their unity is mostly limited to football and life at the pub. This I have witnessed first hand.
Brexit will increase their chances of prosperity.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Knowledge is the enemy of fear
Seems the British populace is already having buyers remorse. Oh, the joys of populism. Lol
I have seen the stories about the petition for a revote. 2 million people have signed. But are those people who voted to remain and just want another shot. Or are they people who changed their mind ? My hunch is that it is people who lost and want another chance as opposed to remorse
If one really wants to ask what the benefit was, ask yourself who set it up? That's right the good of US of A and CI of A.
It hurt my portfolio but I am still happy and if but for one main reason, next up is Texas. They missed in the state legislature by two votes last time. This time will be different. Now I am from Texas but do not live there and I do not want to see the state leave the Union, however it is time the Feds get a black eye so to speak and the power be given back to the people and the States as was intended. Read Jefferson etc, they gave us a Republic and it was ours to protect, yet we have let it slip some. Freedom from Federal jurisdiction were it has NO place. Its time, the last 40 years has not been good to our Union.
Remember "Against all enemies both Foreign and Domestic".
Socialism works until you run out of other peoples money.......
** Edit ***
And it is time for the State Legislature to vote in Senators so they can be recalled when they fail to remember their constituents...
“I want you to remember that no * ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb * die for his country”