Anyone have Pics of California Proof Morgan

tyler267 · May 28, 2016 5:52AM

I've heard the term "California Proof" for years but have never seen one. Someone recently referenced the term on another thread. If you have a pic I would appreciate you posting it. thanks

coindeuce · May 28, 2016 6:46AM

I had one of these briefly in the past.

It was a PL circulation strike Philadelphia (1885 maybe ?) that had been enhanced with a metallic silver lacquer (scale model builder's paint) on all of the devices to create high contrast. It wasn't very deceptive, as the forger had done a sloppy job of letting the paint overlap in to the fields on both sides, and the coin didn't have the sharply squared edges or square edged legend lettering and date numerals. The paint had likely been applied with a graphic artist's air brush. I believe the moniker resulted from unofficial reports that these initially appeared in the Bay Area of San Francisco

Excerpt from the PCGS counterfeit detection guide

LanceNewmanOCC · May 28, 2016 8:03AM

.

a meager search effort turned up nada.

will try again sometime.

.

Zoins · May 28, 2016 8:07AM

I found this description online from Michael Schmidt, EAC #1947 CM #500 CTCC #101, posted on Sun, 01 Feb 1998 04:00:00. It doesn't have pics but describes coins with this treatment as "quite spectacular" and "most attractive".

Originally posted by: Michael Schmidt
California proof-likes were somewhat prevalent in the early seventies. These were coins that had been altered by carefully polishing the fields to a gleaming mirror finish with a VERY fine abrasive and then either etching or "painting a frosting" onto all of the devices. The result is quite spectacular. I have one of these, an 1881-S with full blazing white cameo devices and mirror fields over twelve inches deep. I have seen one of these done with a Peace dollar, I think it was the most attractive Peace dollar I have ever seen. Unfortunately the dealer wouldn't sell it.

Zoins · May 28, 2016 8:29AM

This is from fhcoins ATS (familyheritagecoins.com) on 11/30/07 05:09 PM. Looks like there was a California doctor that made these before the rise of the TPGs.

Originally posted by: fhcoins
California proofs were originally a real high end grouping of mint marked morgans that some dealers bought as branch mint proofs only to find out they had been mechanically and chemically altered. Later they were marketed as DMPL coins to the unwary. The original person who made these was somewhere in California, They were a common thing to find up until the mid 80's, but when most high end coins were put in tpg holders they died out.

lordmarcovan · May 28, 2016 8:31AM

Interesting topic. I hope somebody finds some pictures.

rhedden · May 28, 2016 9:38AM

I owned two of them in the 1990s, an 1880-s and an 1881-s. We called them "California Specials." They were doctored well enough that they initially fooled me and the local dealer who sold them to me. Then one day I noticed a speck of frosting in the field of the 1881-s. It was a greasy substance that scraped off easily with my fingernail. The dealer cheerfully took them back and proceeded to convince himself that the entire cameo effect could be rinsed off with a solvent. That's how we found the heavy bagmarks all over the cheeks of the coins, which were invisible with the frosting applied. These were $50-$75 coins at the time, so it was no big loss when they turned into $30 coins, but I bet a lot of people have been hosed by them over the years.

HighRelief · May 28, 2016 12:56PM

I heard that a coin dealer in California years ago was artificiality frosting DMPL Morgan's and selling them. They could also somehow create deeply mirrored fields using a chemical wash that would make the reflection clear at 24 inches. I bought one of these when I first started collecting DMPL's that happened to be graded Ultra Deep Mirror housed in a Anacs holder. I learned the hard way by trying to cross the coin and get it into a PCGS slab but it was sent back still in the Anac slab with a note stating "altered surfaces: It was the school of hard knocks that I attended and learned very quickly what to look for after that.

WEAAOSwciVXQM6h">This is what happens to a Morgan after they mess with it

Zoins · May 28, 2016 12:59PM

Thanks for the link Brian. That 1880-S just closed at $511.00. The seller seems to have a number of similar Morgans.

tyler267 · May 29, 2016 3:07AM

Originally posted by: LanceNewmanOCC
.
a meager search effort turned up nada.

will try again sometime.
.

I tried searching also, could not find any pics.

ricko · May 29, 2016 8:00AM

Why do people want one of these? Just as an example for education or as a part of a collection of altered coins? I sure would not pay for one... Cheers, RickO

LanceNewmanOCC · May 29, 2016 8:31AM

Originally posted by: ricko

Why do people want one of these? Just as an example for education or as a part of a collection of altered coins? I sure would not pay for one... Cheers, RickO

i consider it a personal tragedy i don't have at least one set of images. (even despite this forum discussing them a few times; even in just my tenure)

that is a tragedy that will be overcome.

.

LanceNewmanOCC · May 29, 2016 8:32AM

Originally posted by: ricko

Why do people want one of these? Just as an example for education or as a part of a collection of altered coins? I sure would not pay for one... Cheers, RickO

i consider it a personal tragedy i don't have at least one set of images. (even despite this forum discussing them a few times; even in just my tenure)

that is a tragedy that will be overcome.

.

drwstr123 · May 29, 2016 9:38AM

david3142 · May 29, 2016 9:48AM

I believe those images are highly doctored. It's obviously possible the coins are too but he sells some slabbed coins (PL or not even) as ultra deep mirrors. I have. No idea who is leaving positive feedback for these.

WildIdea · May 29, 2016 10:41AM

They had some at summer seminar grading as examples of what not to buy. They looked cool until they get around other legit coins, then they look pretty bad.

blu62vette · May 29, 2016 2:13PM

Originally posted by: drwstr123

This is just a doctored juiced up image but not a California cameo.

HighRelief · May 29, 2016 3:26PM

TextIs this one a California Cameo or just a juiced up image?

blu62vette · May 29, 2016 3:37PM

Originally posted by: HighRelief
TextIs this one a California Cameo or just a juiced up image?

Juiced. There are a few guys who all take the same bad images and then juice them. They make any semi PL coin look like the deepest DMPL out there. They have a few coins I looked at and then found on eBay shortly after, recognizable coins and I cant believe what they do to make them look so bad.

Zoins · May 29, 2016 4:36PM

Originally posted by: LanceNewmanOCC

Originally posted by: ricko
Why do people want one of these? Just as an example for education or as a part of a collection of altered coins? I sure would not pay for one... Cheers, RickO

i consider it a personal tragedy i don't have at least one set of images. (even despite this forum discussing them a few times; even in just my tenure)

that is a tragedy that will be overcome.
.

It may be worth reaching out to Conder101 ATS. Based on his post there, he may have a Morgan.

Kyle · June 10, 2016 7:50AM

Took me a while to find this thread again since the Search function doesn't work at all, but I found an example that was listed on eBay recently.

eBay Listing Link

Anyone have Pics of California Proof Morgan

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