Famous Coin NO SALEs - What will be the public perception?
MidLifeCrisis
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Famous coins - major rarities - NO SALEs. If the story of tonight's Pogue Auction is carried by the national media, how will this event be perceived by the public?
Edited to add: My own perception of these NO SALEs is they will impact the hobby negatively...down to 4 and 5 figure coins. Many will assume this is a(nother) indicator that the hobby is weak, the coin market is slow, and that any recovery must be a long way off.
Edited to add: My own perception of these NO SALEs is they will impact the hobby negatively...down to 4 and 5 figure coins. Many will assume this is a(nother) indicator that the hobby is weak, the coin market is slow, and that any recovery must be a long way off.
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I give away money. I collect money.
I don’t love money . I do love the Lord God.
They were then passed after reaching 6.4 and 9.2
Sellers remorse it looks like
Really, so when that now famous dollar went for $10M how did that influence the market......not in my estimation. I don't think anyone cares about a couple of big sale or no sales. Look how many auctions have taken place and what was the effect. In fact the fact that these coins did not sell or the seller had a high reserve means also that the seller wasn't willing to sell it for $9M, which is a great deal of money.
I edited my OP to add my perception of tonight's events. I'm deeply involved in the hobby and I like when it gets good publicity. When I saw the NO SALE results, I thought "Well, damn..."
My question was about the average John or Jane Q. Public who only has a passing interest in the hobby. I hope they don't get a negative perception. If they do, I hope it doesn't last long and I hope it doesn't carry over.
bob
Unless some can explain it to me, I don't see how these 2 coins not selling indicates that the market is weak.
Especially at where the bids topped out.
"If I say something in the woods and my wife isn't there to hear it.....am I still wrong?"
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In summary I'd read nothing at all into the no sale nor the bidding action prior to the pass.
I get the feeling that Pogue had second thoughts about letting these two coins go even at strong prices
I don't think he had a "real"strong bid to consider
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
. So it is what it is....I know that I certainly wanted to keep one favorite coin from my Seated Set when I sold it (tho I didn't).
In summary I'd read nothing at all into the no sale nor the bidding action prior to the pass.
Interesting point
Premier coins. Perhaps only cherished prices will take them one day... no matter the day.
And for those that attended the sale and saw the way the reserves were handled, the lesson should be to be extremely careful bidding at major art sales. (Although, to be fair, the auctioneer did announce before the sale that the auction house may enter "a series of bids" on behalf of the consignor, up to the amount of the reserve. Can't say they didn't warn us.)
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
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Really, so when that now famous dollar went for $10M how did that influence the market......not in my estimation. I don't think anyone cares about a couple of big sale or no sales. Look how many auctions have taken place and what was the effect. In fact the fact that these coins did not sell or the seller had a high reserve means also that the seller wasn't willing to sell it for $9M, which is a great deal of money.
I edited my OP to add my perception of tonight's events. I'm deeply involved in the hobby and I like when it gets good publicity. When I saw the NO SALE results, I thought "Well, damn..."
My question was about the average John or Jane Q. Public who only has a passing interest in the hobby. I hope they don't get a negative perception. If they do, I hope it doesn't last long and I hope it doesn't carry over.
As AUandAG noted in the post after yours, it won't likely have much negative effect outside of coin collecting. If you ever look at comments under coin related news that makes it to the public, it is often along the lines of "what kind of idiot would pay that for some dumb coin", or "look at all the poor people that would have been fed" and the classic "I got an old coin too and will sell it for half that".
On the other side, it could have been a temporary public positive if they had been let go for their top bids.
Will be interesting to see how it is viewed by collectors, dealers and in the hobby press.
"To Be Esteemed Be Useful" - 1792 Birch Cent --- "I personally think we developed language because of our deep need to complain." - Lily Tomlin
what is important is that they were originally scheduled to be opened at first bids of $2.6 and $4m but opened in the end at $5.5 and 7.6
They were then passed after reaching 6.4 and 9.2
Sellers remorse it looks like
So bidding for the 1822 $5 went to $6.4Mil and the 1804 $1 bidding went to $9.2Mil and then they had not met reserve...and the auction house went to the next lots? Am I reading what you wrote correctly?
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The Public will not give a rats arse. They have no clue what a silver dollar is worth from 1921. Only collectors will notice.
bob
Who believes a million would matter to the owner?
Pride, ego, or something else was in the way. Maybe the box of two thing isn't so bad.
Lance.
what is important is that they were originally scheduled to be opened at first bids of $2.6 and $4m but opened in the end at $5.5 and 7.6
They were then passed after reaching 6.4 and 9.2
Sellers remorse it looks like
So bidding for the 1822 $5 went to $6.4Mil and the 1804 $1 bidding went to $9.2Mil and then they had not met reserve...and the auction house went to the next lots? Am I reading what you wrote correctly?
Correct
Really, so when that now famous dollar went for $10M how did that influence the market......not in my estimation. I don't think anyone cares about a couple of big sale or no sales....
The $10 MILL dollar silver dollar auction sale had the under-bidder in the $8 MILL range. I don't see how it could be verifiable at $10 MILL FMV when the high bidder jumped their own bid. I suspect the market saw that as worth one or two bid increments over the under-bidder. Since the market was just a couple of people, it comes down to them. PCGS lists the 1804 at $8.5 MILL and the 1794 SP66 at $10 MILL.
The rest of the coin market has likewise been slow.
But the general public will have zero interest.
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This.....
Down here closer to Earth, I've already been outbid on several lots in the upcoming Goldberg auction, despite having absentee bids above the Estimated Prices posted.
Yes, I know these are generally a little lowball, but the auction is still 10 days away.
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Had they sold, there would have been a 30-second segment about it on the Today Show. But they didn't, so they filled that slot with an amusing cat video instead.
I wonder if the individual(s) who busted their butt meticulously cataloging the sale took this into consideration. They could have watched a boatload of cat and dog videos in the time they spent for lots which did not meet a reserve.
Had they sold, there would have been a 30-second segment about it on the Today Show. But they didn't, so they filled that slot with an amusing cat video instead.
I wonder if the individual(s) who busted their butt meticulously cataloging the sale took this into consideration. They could have watched a boatload of cat and dog videos in the time they spent for lots which did not meet a reserve.
If it's only those 2 lots which had a reserve and failed to meet it, I would think the majority of the information describing the history/provenance of those coins is pretty much just cut and paste from other sources. Anything "new" since the 1804 and 1822 last sold could be summed up fairly quickly.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Really, so when that now famous dollar went for $10M how did that influence the market......not in my estimation. I don't think anyone cares about a couple of big sale or no sales....
The $10 MILL dollar silver dollar auction sale had the under-bidder in the $8 MILL range. I don't see how it could be verifiable at $10 MILL FMV when the high bidder jumped their own bid. I suspect the market saw that as worth one or two bid increments over the under-bidder. Since the market was just a couple of people, it comes down to them. PCGS lists the 1804 at $8.5 MILL and the 1794 SP66 at $10 MILL.
Wasn't Pogue the underbidder on the 1794? Take Pogue out of the market and $10M coins might not exist.
Bidding against yourself in an attempt to influence public perception and gain free publicity might not be as brilliant as the perpetrators believed. We might look back in a few years and see that $10M jump bid as when the bell was rung announcing the top of the ultra-rarities market.
Edit: I just rewatched the video, and I most love the shocked look on Greg Rohan's face when the jump bid was executed. Laura was on the coin for $5M. The auctioneer called for $5.5M. The underbidder split the increment with a bid of $5.25M. Laura then bid $5.5M and the the auctioneer asked for $6M with no takers. At this point Laura bid the pre-calculated amount of $8.525M. Thus, the all in underbid was under $6.17M. It appears all other bidders dropped out when the bidding hit $3.75M or just over $4.4M. If the underbidder was Pogue, as I was told at the time, what does that tell you about the market? I'm so glad these shenanigans were documented on video.