Tungsten filled AGE's
Meltdown
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The seam should be visible inside the reverse rim with a good 10X loupe. Thanks for the warning to keep an eye out for these altered coins.
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Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
What was the tell?
I shop I frequent had a guy call last week with 5 AGE's he wanted to sell. He locked in the price over the phone and showed up about an hour later.
3 of them ended up being milled & filled with Tungsten. Looks like a pretty damn good job too. 1 of them even passed their spectro-anaylizer thing.
All of them ring pretty dead with the ping test... They confiscated the 3 and the guy who is a fairly regular buyer/seller swore he knew nothing.
I took some crappy phone pics but these are real AGE's with the Tungsten superglued inside... When snapped together tight, you can't really see the seam, they're pretty damn legit looking.
It looks like the weight is 34 grams (as seen in picture above) would be the easiest giveaway. Depending on the quality of the workmanship, the seam or cuts could be another obvious giveaway.
What I'm interested in knowing is what the "spectro-anaylizer thing" is....is it a Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal verifier?
I shop I frequent had a guy call last week with 5 AGE's he wanted to sell. He locked in the price over the phone and showed up about an hour later.
3 of them ended up being milled & filled with Tungsten. Looks like a pretty damn good job too. 1 of them even passed their spectro-anaylizer thing.
All of them ring pretty dead with the ping test... They confiscated the 3 and the guy who is a fairly regular buyer/seller swore he knew nothing.
I took some crappy phone pics but these are real AGE's with the Tungsten superglued inside... When snapped together tight, you can't really see the seam, they're pretty damn legit looking.
It looks like the weight is 34 grams (as seen in picture above) would be the easiest giveaway. Depending on the quality of the workmanship, the seam or cuts could be another obvious giveaway.
What I'm interested in knowing is what the "spectro-anaylizer thing" is....is it a Sigma Metalytics Precious Metal verifier?
Standard weight 33.931 grams of 22KT gold. A reading of 34 grams on a scale like that is not going to show anything.
weight is actually 33.931, why would a difference of .069 on a store scale be an easy giveaway??
What was the weight of the tungsten plug? That will show how much 22kt gold is missing.
So would weighing the remaining gold without the plug.
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The seam should be visible inside the reverse rim with a good 10X loupe. Thanks for the warning to keep an eye out for these altered coins.
Also the reeds would have to line up exactly, if anyone bothered to look.
Pics appear to indicate coin was machined just inside the reverse rim, not on the edge.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
Also, they did not "ping" like a real eagle does... I tried it myself, they just sounded dead.
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Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
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They test everything. 2 of them did not pass their analysis machine and 3 of the 5 did not ping.
Was the analysis machine a sigma PMV? Testing everything is a good thing.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
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Yes it was.
My experience with the sigma is to test both sides of a coin or multiple locations on a bar and to do so with more than one probe. If enough gold thickness was left on the side of the coin that was read by the sigma, then the sigma would not see a problem. I like the sigma, so far.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
since gold is heavier than tungsten it would seem that more tungsten would have to be added than gold that was removed. When it comes to comparing tungsten weight to gold weight (they are very close) scale accuracy is paramount. If the accuracy of the scale pictured is not in question, then the difference in what was measured and what it should have been would have been an indicator that further analysis/visual inspection was necessary. Detecting tungsten filled bullion requires a very precise and accurate quality scale.
Pics appear to indicate coin was machined just inside the reverse rim, not on the edge.
The seam could appear on either the obverse or the reverse. The way this type of alteration works (think the two-headed or two-tailed magician coins), they destroy, by grinding out, the reverse of Coin A to leave a cup with the obverse and the reeded edge intact; they destroy the obverse of Coin B to leave a reverse and the reeded edge intact, and then they cut Coin C in half, remove the reeded edges and grind the obverse and reverse faces as thin as they can and then match them up with the appropriate tungsten-filled cups.
TD
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Yeah, this event is not going to improve liquidity of AGEs
I doubt this will stop anyone with a quality 10X loupe and a brain from buying AGE's. Of course buyers will actually have to take the time to examine the AGE's before they buy them.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
since gold is heavier than tungsten it would seem that more tungsten would have to be added than gold that was removed. When it comes to comparing tungsten weight to gold weight (they are very close) scale accuracy is paramount. If the accuracy of the scale pictured is not in question, then the difference in what was measured and what it should have been would have been an indicator that further analysis/visual inspection was necessary. Detecting tungsten filled bullion requires a very precise and accurate quality scale.
Pics appear to indicate coin was machined just inside the reverse rim, not on the edge.
The density of tungsten is 19.25. The density of pure gold is 19.30, but since it is alloyed gold the density of the alloy is approx. 17.5. Thus the tungsten takes up less volume than the gold alloy removed, perhaps leaving room for the glue on either side of the tungsten.
TD
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You know how the fake silver bars are usually sold in plastic shells? I'll bet these will be offered in Capital Plastic holders or some other kind of holder that is a nuisance to open so you can check the coin.
You should be able to examine the inside rim for a seam with a 10X loupe even if it's in a clear plastic holder. The ring test would be a little more difficult though.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
The tungsten plug weighed 22grams. That's all I learned today when I stopped in.
Thanks. So just under 2/3rds of the gold is gone.
You know how the fake silver bars are usually sold in plastic shells? I'll bet these will be offered in Capital Plastic holders or some other kind of holder that is a nuisance to open so you can check the coin.
Or fake slabs.
The post was meant to be cautionary & informational.
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Hey guys. I decided to take down the posting for now while the matter is still being dealt with.
The post was meant to be cautionary & informational.
That it was. Keep us posted of further developments.
Capital investment depends on confidence. - Martin Armstrong
TD