An ebay scam and now paypal to be very careful for
joebb21
Posts: 4,772 ✭✭✭✭✭
Recently I purchased an item from ebay from a 0 feedback seller. The item was not particularly expensive (under $500) and I felt there was a decent chance the seller was legit and so I bid and won and item from him.
The day after the sale I see the seller has uploaded tracking information but I see that their ebay account has become suspended. I call up ebay and mention that i would like to file a claim as I expected to no longer get my item as ebay seemed to believe his account was not legit.
I was told since tracking information was provided I had to wait for a "delivery" before anything could be done.
Fast forward 5 days I see that an item was shown as "out for delivery" in my zip code and eventually "delivered".
I have a po box and only get shipped to it so there is never an "out for delivery" but nonetheless go down to my post office and of course do not find the said package.
I filed a claim with ebay stating item not received. The seller (who once again has since been banned) responds back that he shipped the item and it was delivered. I of course claim it never was and my case from ebay is denied. I called ebay to dispute and reopen the case and am told I need to go down to the post office and get proof the package was not delivered to me. No problem. My case is now reopened and I have 3 days to comply.
The same first day I go down to the post office and find out the package was delivered to a home address (not mine) in the same zip code as mine and of course was never delivered to me.
I uploaded the proof from the post office and waited for ebay to rule in my favor and refund my money. 3 days go by and I get an email from ebay stating my case is closed since they never got the proof from me.
I immediately call them and tell them of course I submitted it etc but they said too bad the time has passed and its too late. I went back to the link that allowed me to upload proof and uploaded the proof again-this time circling the date that I got the post office printout of the delivery (4 days earlier) and was told shortly after by ebay meesage.
"I've reviewed the details of this case and found that on March 28, 2016, we asked you to provide documentation supporting your claim. Because the documentation was not received by the hold date,
March 31 2016, the case has been closed and a refund is not going to be issued.
Once a case has been closed by you or eBay, it cannot be reopened. If you have to open a case in the future, please keep in mind the time frame and procedures."
I then get a message from another ebay rep asking me to file an IC3 claim online and send them the ic3 claim #
I submit the ic3 report and send them the claim number. From there I get another wonderful response
"Based on the information that we have you did not provide the documents on time that is why we cannot grant your appeal and please take note that We believe we
have explained everything from our previous email in reference to the same concern. This will be our final email response for this issue.
I hope I explained everything and thanks for choosing eBay!
Sincerely,
Michael P.
eBay Customer Service"
Now Im ticked off and go and file a claim with paypal. Their first response 2 days later.
"Your seller has provided shipment tracking information in response to your claim. We used the shipping company's online tracking service and found that it confirms delivery of the merchandise. As a result, this case has been closed. We're happy we were able to help you resolve this issue."
On friday I then called in and asked to upload proof that the sellers tracking never went to my address. I upload all the information and have a paypal rep look over all the documents on the phone. He thanks me for my loyalty on paypal and says this looks like a clear cut case.
An hour ago I get the following response from papyal.
"The seller has provided valid tracking information on the above case. As a result, your appeal can not be granted at this time.
We encourage you to contact your seller for a resolution.
We value your business and regret that you have had this experience.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Protection Services"
I am just at a loss of words how simple I feel this matter should be and somehow I keep losing...
Be careful...
The day after the sale I see the seller has uploaded tracking information but I see that their ebay account has become suspended. I call up ebay and mention that i would like to file a claim as I expected to no longer get my item as ebay seemed to believe his account was not legit.
I was told since tracking information was provided I had to wait for a "delivery" before anything could be done.
Fast forward 5 days I see that an item was shown as "out for delivery" in my zip code and eventually "delivered".
I have a po box and only get shipped to it so there is never an "out for delivery" but nonetheless go down to my post office and of course do not find the said package.
I filed a claim with ebay stating item not received. The seller (who once again has since been banned) responds back that he shipped the item and it was delivered. I of course claim it never was and my case from ebay is denied. I called ebay to dispute and reopen the case and am told I need to go down to the post office and get proof the package was not delivered to me. No problem. My case is now reopened and I have 3 days to comply.
The same first day I go down to the post office and find out the package was delivered to a home address (not mine) in the same zip code as mine and of course was never delivered to me.
I uploaded the proof from the post office and waited for ebay to rule in my favor and refund my money. 3 days go by and I get an email from ebay stating my case is closed since they never got the proof from me.
I immediately call them and tell them of course I submitted it etc but they said too bad the time has passed and its too late. I went back to the link that allowed me to upload proof and uploaded the proof again-this time circling the date that I got the post office printout of the delivery (4 days earlier) and was told shortly after by ebay meesage.
"I've reviewed the details of this case and found that on March 28, 2016, we asked you to provide documentation supporting your claim. Because the documentation was not received by the hold date,
March 31 2016, the case has been closed and a refund is not going to be issued.
Once a case has been closed by you or eBay, it cannot be reopened. If you have to open a case in the future, please keep in mind the time frame and procedures."
I then get a message from another ebay rep asking me to file an IC3 claim online and send them the ic3 claim #
I submit the ic3 report and send them the claim number. From there I get another wonderful response
"Based on the information that we have you did not provide the documents on time that is why we cannot grant your appeal and please take note that We believe we
have explained everything from our previous email in reference to the same concern. This will be our final email response for this issue.
I hope I explained everything and thanks for choosing eBay!
Sincerely,
Michael P.
eBay Customer Service"
Now Im ticked off and go and file a claim with paypal. Their first response 2 days later.
"Your seller has provided shipment tracking information in response to your claim. We used the shipping company's online tracking service and found that it confirms delivery of the merchandise. As a result, this case has been closed. We're happy we were able to help you resolve this issue."
On friday I then called in and asked to upload proof that the sellers tracking never went to my address. I upload all the information and have a paypal rep look over all the documents on the phone. He thanks me for my loyalty on paypal and says this looks like a clear cut case.
An hour ago I get the following response from papyal.
"The seller has provided valid tracking information on the above case. As a result, your appeal can not be granted at this time.
We encourage you to contact your seller for a resolution.
We value your business and regret that you have had this experience.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Protection Services"
I am just at a loss of words how simple I feel this matter should be and somehow I keep losing...
Be careful...
may the fonz be with you...always...
0
Comments
bob
I imagine many people would give up and the seller would keep the money.
The PO gave me proof that the item was delivered to some other address but both ebay and paypal automatically reject any claims if the delivered zip code are the same.
when you look up tracking info on usps.com it does not include the address delivered to-just states an item was delivered.
Ebay and paypal use this same information and will then automatically reject cases and appeals.
Above all else E-Bay has no desire to get involved in disputes. Further, they encourage as many brand new sellers as they can muster up. They don't care about reputations. That's for sellers to earn (or not) over time.
I think buying from a zero feedback Seller any item that costs more than a few bucks is like asking the man on the street to hold your wallet. The results are abt to be mixed.
I'd be raising hell at the Post Office first thing Monday morning.
How is this a scam? It appears that the PO is at fault and that is where I would direct my anger and ire. They should get the coin back from the home where it was delivered.
bob
can send a 'free gift' to any valid address in the same zip code with tracking and say it was the $500 con going to Joebb21
This is an old delivered scam and hard to protect against, especially if they do not use eBay or PAYPAL shipping and upload tracking info.
Joebb21, file for a return SNAD and send them a box of crap
How is this a scam? It appears that the PO is at fault and that is where I would direct my anger and ire. They should get the coin back from the home where it was delivered.
bob
can send a 'free gift' to any valid address in the same zip code with tracking and say it was the $500 con going to Joebb21
This is an old delivered scam and hard to protect against, especially if they do not use eBay or PAYPAL shipping and upload tracking info.
Joebb21, file for a return SNAD and send them a box of crap
+1
Scammers know the a loophole in paypal protection is that they can ship to any address as long as it is in same zip code and that will satisfy ebay/paypal to prove delivery.
Did you use a CC? If so, file a chargeback. The CC company will get your money back. Definitely something to remember if buying from a new or questionable seller. Good luck..
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
For example, the zip code for my house is xxx56 and my PO box (and all others) is xxx52.
I don't know if that is true for every post office?
But the seller could easily get an address for a zip code and put like a pencil in an envelope and ship it with tracking and it would show delivered. The person who got it wouldn't have a clue.
It all seems pretty strange, especially about eBay denying you didn't provide proof within 3 days and the seller being NARU'd.
About all I think you can do is go up the ladder until you can get someone to look at the details. First maybe you can contact the delivery address and see what they got.
Or if you paid with a CC, dispute the transaction with them would be your best bet.
It's pretty weird.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Ike Specialist
Finest Toned Ike I've Ever Seen, been looking since 1986
Recently I purchased an item from ebay from a 0 feedback seller. The item was not particularly expensive (under $500) and I felt there was a decent chance the seller was legit and so I bid and won and item from him.
The day after the sale I see the seller has uploaded tracking information but I see that their ebay account has become suspended. I call up ebay and mention that i would like to file a claim as I expected to no longer get my item as ebay seemed to believe his account was not legit.
I was told since tracking information was provided I had to wait for a "delivery" before anything could be done.
Fast forward 5 days I see that an item was shown as "out for delivery" in my zip code and eventually "delivered".
I have a po box and only get shipped to it so there is never an "out for delivery" but nonetheless go down to my post office and of course do not find the said package.
I filed a claim with ebay stating item not received. The seller (who once again has since been banned) responds back that he shipped the item and it was delivered. I of course claim it never was and my case from ebay is denied. I called ebay to dispute and reopen the case and am told I need to go down to the post office and get proof the package was not delivered to me. No problem. My case is now reopened and I have 3 days to comply.
The same first day I go down to the post office and find out the package was delivered to a home address (not mine) in the same zip code as mine and of course was never delivered to me.
I uploaded the proof from the post office and waited for ebay to rule in my favor and refund my money. 3 days go by and I get an email from ebay stating my case is closed since they never got the proof from me.
I immediately call them and tell them of course I submitted it etc but they said too bad the time has passed and its too late. I went back to the link that allowed me to upload proof and uploaded the proof again-this time circling the date that I got the post office printout of the delivery (4 days earlier) and was told shortly after by ebay meesage.
"I've reviewed the details of this case and found that on March 28, 2016, we asked you to provide documentation supporting your claim. Because the documentation was not received by the hold date,
March 31 2016, the case has been closed and a refund is not going to be issued.
Once a case has been closed by you or eBay, it cannot be reopened. If you have to open a case in the future, please keep in mind the time frame and procedures."
I then get a message from another ebay rep asking me to file an IC3 claim online and send them the ic3 claim #
I submit the ic3 report and send them the claim number. From there I get another wonderful response
"Based on the information that we have you did not provide the documents on time that is why we cannot grant your appeal and please take note that We believe we
have explained everything from our previous email in reference to the same concern. This will be our final email response for this issue.
I hope I explained everything and thanks for choosing eBay!
Sincerely,
Michael P.
eBay Customer Service"
Now Im ticked off and go and file a claim with paypal. Their first response 2 days later.
"Your seller has provided shipment tracking information in response to your claim. We used the shipping company's online tracking service and found that it confirms delivery of the merchandise. As a result, this case has been closed. We're happy we were able to help you resolve this issue."
On friday I then called in and asked to upload proof that the sellers tracking never went to my address. I upload all the information and have a paypal rep look over all the documents on the phone. He thanks me for my loyalty on paypal and says this looks like a clear cut case.
An hour ago I get the following response from papyal.
"The seller has provided valid tracking information on the above case. As a result, your appeal can not be granted at this time.
We encourage you to contact your seller for a resolution.
We value your business and regret that you have had this experience.
Thank you for your cooperation.
Sincerely,
Protection Services"
I am just at a loss of words how simple I feel this matter should be and somehow I keep losing...
Be careful...
Only use CC .. for Ebay purchases
Sounds like USPS is not at fault. Sounds like they delivered to address chosen by shipper. The flaw in the system is that no one but the seller knows what that address is. This could be prevented if paypal and ebay required shipping labels through their websites for sellers with less than ten feedback. This would provide a street address should problems such as this one arise.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
The sound of my tennis shoes being used as a source of escape.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Joebb21, file for a return SNAD and send them a box of crap
That's absolutely the best way to handle it. It's simpler and it works within Ebay rules to get your refund on the misdelivered package.
Joebb21, file for a return SNAD and send them a box of crap
That's absolutely the best way to handle it. It's simpler and it works within Ebay rules to get your refund on the misdelivered package.
yes, if originally handled this way. buyer has already indicated to PP and EB that he did not receive it. His only way to push this through is to tell them it went to the wrong address and the individual brought it to him.
No Way Out: Stimulus and Money Printing Are the Only Path Left
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Items paid with PayPal must to ship to a CONFIRMED address as per their rules. Clearly they have access to all addresses involved, especially if the shipping label was created with PayPal. How does PayPal explain that?
That is true, but you are not forced to use paypal to ship the item and you can ship it to another address by walking into a post office . Just look up a close address (in the same zip code) as the confirmed address on google maps and you're golden.
The only way you can fight this is through a SNAD and send them a box of fine glitter back...
Also, don't buy from sellers with 0 feedback and always purchase through paypal with a credit card. Otherwise, you're asking for trouble.
(l8-)>>
CC chargeback will not work in this case. CC company will contact the payment processor (paypal) and paypal will argue (and win) on behalf of the seller that postal tracking shows "delivered."
I have read many cases where buyers in similar situations have gotten a refund through the CC company even when denied by paypal and/or ebay. Many credit card companies will bend over backwards to ensure the card holder is satisfied if a complaint arises, though I'm sure they will look at the details and overall account history when making a determination. In this case, the buyer has proof from the PO that item was delivered to an address different from his own. While such a ridiculous threshold (same zip code) may meet ebay/paypal requirement for delivery, it will not meet the credit card company's requirement for proof of delivery. Paypal does not like when you file a chargeback through the CC company but the buyer should receive a refund if a complaint is filed that way.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Joebb21, file for a return SNAD and send them a box of crap
How can you do that if PP/eBay doesn't refund your money until AFTER the seller gets his item back? At least that's how it ought to work.
Update- i just called paypal asking how they could have ruled against me and after some talking they made things right and gave me a full refund
Excellent news!
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
"The PO gave me proof that the item was delivered to some other address but both ebay and paypal automatically reject any claims if the delivered zip code are the same."
The same zip code is good enough for delivery evidence? That's a tiny space with lots of people in some places and a huge space with few people in other places.
C'mon. You are pulling my lariat.
Glad you recieved your refund.
Lance.
I am convinced that when eBay and Paypal broke up, all of the top rated customer service reps went to Paypal, they fired all of the mediocre reps, and worst of the worst of the reps went to the eBay customer service department.
Cheers, RickO
Update- i just called paypal asking how they could have ruled against me and after some talking they made things right and gave me a full refund
Reasonable people do exist
Wow... good final resolution. Just one more reason I stay away from ebay though.
Cheers, RickO
In this instance the wound was self-inflicted. Fortunately it wasn't fatal.
Wow... good final resolution. Just one more reason I stay away from ebay though.
Cheers, RickO
In this instance the wound was self-inflicted. Fortunately it wasn't fatal.
Zero feedback sellers are not all scammers
i read most of the thread.
one thing ive never figured out how to do is;
view the addresses of a shipping label after it has been printed and the pc has restarted or whatever. - gotta be in the system somewhere but can never seem to access it, aside from the reprint period.
reminds me of pp saying they "cant" stop an upload/withdrawal of funds, no matter what but if you get a claim, legitimate or not, it stops it instantly if you dont have the funds to cover the amount in your account and buyer 99% of the time dont warn you. not the end of the world but can cause a bit of havok.
no good if one does a manual print address with purchased tracking only slip, not via ebay/pp. - not much hope then.
one thing that concerns me is that the address can have a physical AND po box in the address line and usually the non-po box address (but post office address is) on top. -
skip to BUT
(doing this has allowed for shipments from companies/sellers that dont permit po boxes and the form wont complete with it in the form, at least not w/o some creative/risky modifying unless a physical address is the primary line, usually the post office. - i signed a form for this option and it works great. nice that ups, fed ex deliver to po boxes too, ironically.)
BUT
it seems like this may cause a loophole and im sure it has for me, although it was delivered, no problem. the address is supposed to be the post office but any physical address (generally speaking) can be put above the po box addy.
one of the pro/con things about a po box and virtually every shipping method/address/combination is susceptible to loopholes and while a very small percentage fall victim, sure stings when it does.
did have a customer this happened to on ebay and i know since i sent it, there was no problem with the package/label but it was a po box situation WITH signature and it ended up saying "delivered", not signed for.
also, had a check from g.c. that was returned recently, NOT their fault and they resent it in another package so i could see the original package, and it was "perfect." very nice and not necessary on their part and i figured it was just, one of those situations. - took it to the po with a letter from g.c. asking, what the heck it wasnt delivered, and all they could say was, hmmm, sorry.
depending on who.how well the po employees know you, this may not even be avoidable. i could go into the variatiins but we get the picture and have read plenty of big packages gone missing articles/threads, including the most secure.
.
Wow... good final resolution. Just one more reason I stay away from ebay though.
Cheers, RickO
In this instance the wound was self-inflicted. Fortunately it wasn't fatal.
Zero feedback sellers are not all scammers
True. We all started at 0 feedback at one time. Still?
.
i read most of the thread.
one thing ive never figured out how to do is;
view the addresses of a shipping label after it has been printed and the pc has restarted or whatever. - gotta be in the system somewhere but can never seem to access it, aside from the reprint period.
.
With PP, you can go to transaction details and reprint your label within 24 hours. Also you can download it to your hard drive and print as many copies as you want.
At usps.com aka click n ship you can't see the label, but the ship to addy is there.
This zero seller needs to be wearing stripes, it seems like outright mail fraud. Is the amount enough to push it to felony theft?
Items paid with PayPal must to ship to a CONFIRMED address as per their rules. Clearly they have access to all addresses involved, especially if the shipping label was created with PayPal. How does PayPal explain that?
That is true, but you are not forced to use paypal to ship the item and you can ship it to another address by walking into a post office . Just look up a close address (in the same zip code) as the confirmed address on google maps and you're golden.
The only way you can fight this is through a SNAD and send them a box of fine glitter back...
Also, don't buy from sellers with 0 feedback and always purchase through paypal with a credit card. Otherwise, you're asking for trouble.
Yes, you're right, but my point is that if the seller did not ship to a confirmed address then why is this not the sellers problem? Is it that both eBay and PayPal are happy with a zip code proof of delivery? I thought for sure PayPal would require the exact address for proof. No?
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
Items paid with PayPal must to ship to a CONFIRMED address as per their rules. Clearly they have access to all addresses involved, especially if the shipping label was created with PayPal. How does PayPal explain that?
That is true, but you are not forced to use paypal to ship the item and you can ship it to another address by walking into a post office . Just look up a close address (in the same zip code) as the confirmed address on google maps and you're golden.
The only way you can fight this is through a SNAD and send them a box of fine glitter back...
Also, don't buy from sellers with 0 feedback and always purchase through paypal with a credit card. Otherwise, you're asking for trouble.
Yes, you're right, but my point is that if the seller did not ship to a confirmed address then why is this not the sellers problem? Is it that both eBay and PayPal are happy with a zip code proof of delivery? I thought for sure PayPal would require the exact address for proof. No?
Except in this case the seller wasn't making a claim; the buyer was. If the seller ships to an unconfirmed addy and then wants to make a claim, his claim is weakened considerably.
for the claim to immediately be honored.
Other posters think the PO made a mistake. I don't get that.
Glad it worked out.
I stopped buying and selling coins on eBay 4 years ago.
PO mistake was my take. We've all had mail delivered to us that was the neighbors, etc.
bob
It's no different than buying/selling on the BST or any other forum online. Most people buy an item or two from a trusted seller to build up their feedback and then go from there...
The post office has on file that it was delivered to some random street address (i know the exact address as they gave it to me). point is that even though I gave both ebay and paypal proof from the post office that the package was not delivered to my po box they are still ruling against me
I would send ebay a load out of my underwear.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
K