Post your experience with multiple submissions of the same coin.

Proofmorgan · January 8, 2016 11:24AM

I purchased a beautiful 1837 No Stars, Large Date at auction a couple months ago that was 66+ Gold CAC. #31621296

I submitted it Express Show at FUN for reconsideration and received the 67 upgrade. This was relieving, but I believe it deserves a plus. The coin has nicer eye appeal than the other 3 examples in the Pop. Due to this, I resubmitted it with regular show and specified a plus grade.....I didn't get it.

I think they may be holding the line from moving it to a top pop.

I'm considering dropping it off at the show tomorrow for regular service to be shipped back and save one way shipping for a last attempt.

What do you guys think and any first hand experience?

jclovescoins · January 8, 2016 11:29AM

try it

rhedden · January 8, 2016 11:33AM

It will magically get the "+" right after you give up and sell it. Murphy's law of regrades. It's just like my 1914-S dime that wouldn't upgrade from its 1989 vintage MS65 OGH. I sold it at a small loss, and it was housed in a 66/CAC holder in the very next Heritage auction. Must have been submitted during PCGS Happy Hour. Maybe you should include a small bottle of Cognac with your next re-submission.

rhedden · January 8, 2016 11:34AM

I don't mean to say that I haven't gotten some upgrades in my time. I submitted about 30 Barber dimes for upgrade from the same set, and roughly two thirds of them went up a point. The 1914-S just had a hex on it (and a carbon spot).

keyman64 · January 8, 2016 11:36AM

Big congrats on the 67! Beautiful coin without a doubt, no matter what holder it is in.

It was very cool to meet you at the show this morning. I enjoyed it.

TopographicOceans · January 8, 2016 11:37AM

A bump from 66+ to 67+ may not ever happen.
Maybe it just needs a stop along the way from 66+ to 67, then from 67 to 67+
It only costs money to find out.

Barndog · January 8, 2016 12:10PM

get it graded at a Vegas show

roadrunner · January 8, 2016 12:14PM

It's in the top 3 now. And if it's the best of them, it's worth considerably more than the others. Eventually, it will happen. Are all 3 CAC'd?

Isn't this the same coin a forum member consigned and we had a detailed discussion about it? If that's the same coin then I think I did consider than coin a solid/strong 67. Killer eye appeal.

PCGS is very fussy on the tiniest of marks at the 67 level. It almost has to be a 67++ or 68 to get that 67+. They'd be creating a pop 1 that would probably put a 50% or higher premium on the coin. They may not want to do that yet.

I had an 1838 no drapery half dime that graded NGC MS67 back in 1990. It would never cross though....3 attempts. I tried a final time at NGC in 2009 and they wouldn't 68 it....it went 67*. Next time I saw it was 4 years later in the Gardner collection as an NGC 68*. Despite the lack of a cross, when it sold at auction in 2009 it fetched 3X what PCGS MS67's were bringing. At least 2 bidders were thinking 67+ or 68.

Kyle · January 8, 2016 12:25PM

Originally posted by: roadrunner

Isn't this the same coin a forum member consigned and we had a detailed discussion about it? If that's the same coin then I think I did consider than coin a solid/strong 67. Killer eye appeal.

I believe it is.

Here is the thread.

Proofmorgan · January 8, 2016 1:53PM

It makes a pop of 4, but they haven't updated yet. CAC has a pop of 5, but that doesn't include mine so it will be 6 (including NGC). I assume the others are stickered because they are original coins. Blow up the true views and compare them all. The other 67s in both large and small date (large is mine) have more ticks and lines. The single 68 in small date is a bit better than mine in marks and color. But look at all 67s and the 68, mine is clearly the stepping stone between if not slightly closer to the 68 (not quite there).

Thanks for the link Kyle.

Wabbit2313 · January 8, 2016 2:05PM

My baby is now in a 67 holder? Sweet. Just do regrades for future tries. John at CAC called it a 67++. There is something to be said about holding the coin in hand rather than reconsidering it through plastic. I would exhaust the grading process completely before resubmitting to CAC.

Just my 5 cents! Cheers!

Wabbit2313 · January 8, 2016 2:07PM

PS, there is no way they would upgrade the same coin twice at the same show. (In my opinion.)

OldIndianNutKase · January 8, 2016 3:19PM

Originally posted by: Barndog
get it graded at a Vegas show

Best advice on this thread........plus you can have a lot of fun in Vegas.

OINK

Boosibri · January 8, 2016 3:59PM

Do a regrade not reconsideration now. Did you do reconsideration the second time?

oih82w8 · January 8, 2016 9:41PM

CAC it again, then resubmit for regrade.

Proofmorgan · January 8, 2016 9:58PM

I did a reconsideration the 2nd time because you could specify plus only. Prior to this I'm 4 for 4 using that service (plus only).

I'm torn on whether to CAC and resubmit, hold and resubmit, or just drop off again today and for regrade or reconsideration. Prior, they always seemed pretty easy to give the plus grade if that's all I asked for. Granted, I screen the coins to ensure they are worthy first.

Proofmorgan · January 8, 2016 10:01PM

Wabbitt, she made the 67. I talked to Laura from Legend and she said she was my under bidder. She believes it's a 67+ and guided me to try for 67 and then get the plus. She felt the coin was 67+ but I'd have to play the game to get it there.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 8, 2016 10:29PM

I'm not that kind of player. Widgets and dogs are me.

TennesseeDave · January 9, 2016 12:04AM

I have 2 experiences where it took 3 submissions to get the grade that was deserved. The first coin went from Uncirculated details with questionable color to Uncirculated details cleaned after a quick dip in E-zest to its final grade of MS-62+, which is close to my original grade of 62/63. The next coin went AU-cleaned, AU- cleaned , AU-58. Very nice coin in hand that does not look cleaned to me.

msch1man · January 9, 2016 12:32AM

I wouldn't worry about what holder it's in and whether or not it's stickered...that coin clearly stands on it's own as jaw dropping.

roadrunner · January 9, 2016 1:02AM

Originally posted by: Proofmorgan

It makes a pop of 4, but they haven't updated yet. CAC has a pop of 5, but that doesn't include mine so it will be 6 (including NGC). I assume the others are stickered because they are original coins. Blow up the true views and compare them all. The other 67s in both large and small date (large is mine) have more ticks and lines. The single 68 in small date is a bit better than mine in marks and color. But look at all 67s and the 68, mine is clearly the stepping stone between if not slightly closer to the 68 (not quite there).

Thanks for the link Kyle.

At the 67 level you can't accurately assess hairlines or in-hand luster blast plus other features that just don't show up in photos. You don't have to have original toning to make 67 or 68. The 1838 PCGS MS68 no drapery quarter is dipped. It's been the finest known of that type since at least the late 1980's. And that's an amazing coin that really doesn't lose a step being white. I can't say that for many early seated coins. It's too bad that PCGS can't rank all of the no stars half dimes in 67/68 on the same day....to ensure the proper ranking is reflected in the final grades.

It was insane that your coin was graded 66 in the first place. There was a similarly graded PCGS MS66 1838/1839 half dime in Goldberg's Benson 1 sale back in 2002. That coin was a 67++ all day long. I bid MS67+ money on it (3X MS66 money) and still fell about 10% short of getting it. Sold for around $5800. It ended up going NGC MS68 the first time through. I saw it in Pinnacle's inventory a short time later for $12K-$13K. Under-grades do happen. But that Benson 1 sale had a slew of obviously under-graded coins.

The biggest swing I've gotten on a no drapery coin was a choice unc 1838-0 dime I bought raw at auction. In a 2 month period on 3 submissions by me it went NGC MS64 ($7500), PCGS MS63 ($4000), NGC MS65 ($17,500). It was the first MS65 ever graded. I sold it sight-unseen over the phone.

mbogoman · January 9, 2016 1:02AM

I purchased an 1889-CC Morgan in an NGC XF45 "Old Fattie" holder that was clearly AU IMO. It crossed at grade, then I resubmitted it as a regrade and it came back AU50.

Ronyahski · January 9, 2016 1:42AM

I went back to my Pogue catalog to check. I wrote "67+ A" at lot viewing. Love your coin. The guy sitting next to me at Pogue lot viewing was really crazy for this coin - come to think, maybe that was you?!? Go for it, but if it were me, I'd wait.

Proofmorgan · January 9, 2016 2:15AM

On my flight back home now. I held off. I was an online bidder on that auction. I never saw it in hand but relied on friends and Stacks reps to be my eyes. They didn't mislead me. I won it on an opening cut bid. The same tactic didn't work for me in the auction last night an a couple items. The online bidders gladly took the free cut bid.

Interesting is that this coin went through the grading process twice at the show and a 1847D $5 regrade with pedigree attribution that was dropped off Thurs morning didn't make it in time for me to take home. Oh well, what's a two week wait and $50 shipping charge on top of a show fee (according to PCGS).

Wabbit2313 · January 9, 2016 3:46AM

Originally posted by: Proofmorgan
Wabbitt, she made the 67. I talked to Laura from Legend and she said she was my under bidder. She believes it's a 67+ and guided me to try for 67 and then get the plus. She felt the coin was 67+ but I'd have to play the game to get it there.

It will get there because it belongs there. At the show, the same guys who just upgraded it would be the same ones to look at it again. They would not forget that coin. If they were to upgrade it again a day later, that would not bode well for accuracy and consistency.

I also initially regretted putting it in the Pogue auction. I originally had it in mind to sell it at FUN. As it turns out, she was at FUN anyway!!

pennyannie · January 9, 2016 9:00AM

Originally posted by: Proofmorgan
Wabbitt, she made the 67. I talked to Laura from Legend and she said she was my under bidder. She believes it's a 67+ and guided me to try for 67 and then get the plus. She felt the coin was 67+ but I'd have to play the game to get it there.

If the only way you can get the grade is to play as described above, how many will feel the coin is not worthy of the 67+?? I think I would be happier with a gold bean on a 67

Post your experience with multiple submissions of the same coin.

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