Auction Question

Gazes · January 3, 2016 11:33PM

Hi all,

I have followed this forum quite awhile but this is my first post. I have collected off and on over 20 years. Now I am in a position in life where I have a bit more resources for my coin collecting addiction. So here is my first question:

I think it is universally recommended that if at all possible you should view a coin in person at an auction before bidding or at least have someone whose judgment you value view it. If this is not possible for whatever reason, how "risky" is it to bid on a coin that is PCGS graded and CAC approved? I know it is better to actually view the coin but do you think the combination of PCGS and CAC approval can suffice when viewing is not possible?

Look forward to contributing to the message boards going forward. Thanks

lunytune2 · January 4, 2016 12:40AM

I believe there was a thread about this not long ago . But the concensus was that everybody has different tastes and even CAC coins may not have THE LOOK you want in hand . If you wanted it for purely just investment, you are good . But if you want it as a collectors piece , you are better to view it or have someone else that knows what you want see it in hand.

WELCOME to the forum !

TopographicOceans · January 4, 2016 1:32AM

The concept of Third Party Graders (TPG) is to allow the trading of coins sight unseen.
CAC is an added "feature" that means CAC has reviewed the coin and agree with the grade (Green) or think it is strong for the grade (Gold)

But each coin is unique and even if the technical grades are the same, the appearance of the coins can vary.

How "risky" is it to buy sight-unseen? It really boils down to how much you pay.

ctf_error_coins · January 4, 2016 1:39AM

I have bought tens of thousands of coins from photos only. I have bought two coins in-hand.

Buying from photos is extremely safe if you know what you are doing.

Coin Finder · January 4, 2016 1:50AM

If you are a beginner, look at as many coins under light as you can. You will develope a look you like. Then be prepared as your "look" will evolve, it is part of the fun.

liefgold · January 4, 2016 3:41AM

As others have mentioned it really depends on what you collect and the look you like. There are many experts in different series on this site that are willing to help.

Gazes · January 4, 2016 4:39AM

Thanks to all the response---very much appreciated.

BillJones · January 4, 2016 4:46AM

I would not depend upon that grading combination. The very first coin I bought with those endorsements was a big disappointment, and I paid over $30 k. CAC did buy the piece from me.

You best bet is see the coin in person. Short of that you could as a dealer or collector you trust to look at it. I have bought a fair amount from Heritage, and I have a contact there who has given me good, candid advice, but I've been a good customer.

Don't give up on buying from dealers at the shows. That's where I have acquired most of my coins.

Gazes · January 4, 2016 5:08AM

Thanks Bill---that makes sense. How did it happen that CAC purchased the coin back? Did you get it and not like the grade and reach out to them? Thanks

BillJones · January 4, 2016 5:22AM

Originally posted by: Gazes
Thanks Bill---that makes sense. How did it happen that CAC purchased the coin back? Did you get it and not like the grade and reach out to them? Thanks

If you let me send you a private mesage, I'll explain.

Private Message (PM) sent.

PM denied. Everyone's favorite, error 113.

I have no clue as to how to fix the message. There are no obscene or offensive words in it. It is 440 words of wasted effort.

roadrunner · January 4, 2016 6:27AM

I'd have no problem bidding sight-unseen on a PCGS CAC coin as long as there was a quality photograph, I liked the look, was confident of that "look," and put in a reasonable market price bid. If you intend to win such a lot at all costs or will pay strong, they you need to get it seen in hand by someone else. It really comes down to your expertise and risk tolerance. There are some coins that CAC does real good (such as MS65/66 Saints) that I'd have no problem buying sight-unseen.

Over the past 30 years, my very best coins have invariably come from major auctions. That's where the best coins tend to end up. Some of those have no been available outside major auction over the past 30 years. At the same time, a lot has changed in the industry over the past 10 years. Still, I'd rather try and compete for the coin at auction before the dealer markups get applied. Paying a world class TPG quality grader/agent 5% can often beat out the dealer markup. With good advice, there's no reason to avoid auctions. When I've enlisted a top agent, I've had no real mistakes, and some excellent wins. Other's mileage may vary.

jt88 · January 4, 2016 6:50AM

Originally posted by: ErrorsOnCoins
I have bought tens of thousands of coins from photos only. I have bought two coins in-hand.

Buying from photos is extremely safe if you know what you are doing.

I agree, I think I only bought one or two coin in person the rest were all bought online.

BillJones · January 4, 2016 6:51AM

Other's mileage may vary.

My mileage has been different. Don't believe everything you see in auction house pictures.

Cougar1978 · January 4, 2016 7:48AM

I believe one should buy sight seen certainly on big ticket material. Some commission a dealer to represent them on coins like say $5 K material and up.

Another consideration is return priveledge. I have bought many coins sight seen at shows from my table. I enjoy online bidding as well but there is no substitute for sight seen. The sellers return policy is key. I do not buy outside my comfort zone of risk.

I have seen one instance at a show on a $160 coin where a person had a dealer representing him. The dealer would not pay above CDN Bid and it was no deal since the coin was already at my best retail price. Consequently they did not get the coin so it seemed kind of silly the guy had to get a dealer involved in that. Perhaps they had some agreement on some percentage going to that dealer. The dealer tried to argue with me and I simply told him the coin is already at my best price and advised them to shop around. The whole thing was kinda weird - First the dealer was trying to steal my profit possibly to get some cheap commission from the customer. I also found it curious someone was so indecisive on a $160 coin they had to have a dealer represent them.

BryceM · January 4, 2016 7:48AM

I've tried typing a reply 3 times on three different devices and got 113 error messages each time.

I give up.

roadrunner · January 4, 2016 11:02AM

My mileage has been different. Don't believe everything you see in auction house pictures.

Are saying that with a world class grader/agent you had bad experiences at auction, maybe even lots of them?

What difference does it make whether there are good, bad, or no auction photos to go by? The agent viewing for you (or with you) nullifies all of that.

I've tried typing a reply 3 times on three different devices and got 113 error messages each time.

I give up.

I just had the same issue when trying to use the quote feature. You might want to try just copying and pasting the quote in. Must be a glitch at times when quoting a post.

sparky64 · January 4, 2016 11:26AM

Gazes.

I can't believe it but I miss way more than I should sometimes when viewing raw coins at auctions. I often blame poor fluorescent lighting but it's all on me.

Amazing the things I overlook. Its embarrassing and infuriating when I get home and look again.

Not sure why this is.

I liken it to an athlete that trains and practices perfectly but just doesn't perform during live competition.

See how I did that? Went from a dork to an athlete.

/

The way that I look at slabbed coins is that a few professional have assigned a certain grade after close scrutiny. CAC? More eyes on the coin.

Highly unlikely to have missed that blatant scratch or rim bump, etc....

Not infallible but reassuring and a great starting point.

-Mark

AMRC · January 4, 2016 12:30PM

If you only buy coins you see in hand first, you are missing an equal amount of princes and frogs.

CoinZip · January 4, 2016 1:24PM

Find a dealer or dealers you can trust....

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