Has anyone gotten a prenup specifically to protect a coin collection?

AllCoinsRule · December 25, 2015 6:29AM

Just wondering if anyone has dealt with something like that. In my state assets owned before marriage would be protected, but what if either I add to the collection while married, and/or the coins I already had gain value while married?

Sonorandesertrat · December 25, 2015 6:39AM

You should be able to document ALL numismatic purchases (in my case, this includes rare numismatic literature). Every time you make a purchase, ask for and keep the receipt. Digitize receipts to prevent problems with fading ink. You want to do this for other reasons too (e.g., IRS reviews of tax filings).

Put your entire collection in a prenup if this offers some piece of mind. Assets are assets----if a prenup is 'needed,' then anything should be on the table, not just cash/stocks/bonds/real estate.

Unknown · December 25, 2015 6:42AM

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wondercoin · December 25, 2015 6:51AM

I "took a chance" with my collection of 20+ years and married her without any pre-marriage documents (believing I found Mrs. Right). Within so many years, the coins I acquired after marriage made the pre-marriage coins look like "chicken feed" by comparison. Now, 27 years after marriage, I guess she owns about 20 of my 40 registry sets the way I see it. LOL.

Wondercoin

ricko · December 25, 2015 6:52AM

Right decision, wrong decision - it is immaterial to the issue at hand. You have assets to

protect.... get a pre-nuptial agreement covering all previously acquired possessions - even though

law normally protects these, lawyers have ways around it - trust me - I know from experience.

Document everything and include potential appreciation (since you cannot control this)...

Best of luck...Cheers, RickO

DaveG · December 25, 2015 6:54AM

Well, if you're serious, you shouldn't be asking us clowns, you should be asking your attorney.

There are lots of collectors (art, cars, etc.) out there, I'm sure there are some standard solutions to protect their collections.

hammer1 · December 25, 2015 6:55AM

If you have substantial assets, a prenup is a good idea.

In a community property state, like California, if you purchase coins from a commingled account (ie not a separate account you had before marriage) they are community property. Increase in separate property value during marriage, without any time or effort on your part, is generally thought to retain its separate status. Never refer to them as 'our' collection as you may make your separate property community. Get a prenup, period.

SamByrd · December 25, 2015 6:57AM

be very aware and cautious about prenups. There are various legal aspects from state to state. Many are community property states as far as assets accumulated during the course of a marriage. In order to be considered valid and enforceable in some states the prenup has to be written in the right manner and any illegal aspect may void the whole document.

sometimes it is best to pay a legal professional to fully and completely advise you.

Divorce lawyers may be a good place to look if you have a family or business lawyer ask him for a referral. The cost will out weigh the risk of an invalid or unenforceable prenup in the sad event it is needed.

bidask · December 25, 2015 8:28AM

My wife of 24 years has the keys to the safe deposit box and typed up a detailed inventory ! ??

When I first married I had her sign a prenup but after about 4 years of marriage I thought I had one foot in the marriage and one foot

out of the marriage. That wasn't fair to either of us so I ripped it up! ??

jdimmick · December 25, 2015 10:03AM

I have been married 25+ years, we have are ups and downs, but I'm not going any where and neither is she as far as I know.

My coins are mine period, she has no idea that I even have any. (other than business inventory)

jim

Moldnut · December 25, 2015 10:06AM

Originally posted by: jdimmick
My coins are mine period, she has no idea that I even have any. (other than business inventory)
jim

Same here, she has no idea what I have.

winky · December 25, 2015 10:11AM

Originally posted by: DaveG
Well, if you're serious, you shouldn't be asking us clowns, you should be asking your attorney.

There are lots of collectors (art, cars, etc.) out there, I'm sure there are some standard solutions to protect their collections.

I'm with you on that. Thanks.

ms70 · December 25, 2015 10:22AM

What coin collection?

planonit · December 25, 2015 10:51AM

Well I am not married and I cannot (nor anyone hear) to your own personal situation but I have seen these conversations before and I always think the exact same thing:

How would she (or he) know what you have?

I mean if I got married unless she was a collector I doubt she would even have the much beyond a slight grasp of what I have. Besides a technically legal and/or ethical obligation I think it would be very, very easy to hide all or at least most of your collection if it came down to a divorce.

bigjpst · December 25, 2015 11:20AM

I do not have a prenup, and my wife really has no idea what I have for my collection, or my inventory. Not because I don't want her to, but because most of the time when I talk about coins, her eyes just glass over and I can tell she is counting the minutes until I stop talking or change the subject. I do keep a detailed inventory and my wife knows who to contact if something were to happen to me so she doesn't get burned liquidating my coins. I would expect that people have done this in the past to protect numerous kinds of collections.

My ex wife didn't think much of my coin collection(which she had no idea of value) but when we were getting divorced, she sure liked to make a.s.sumptions about how much my stock portfolio was worth(she also had no idea of actual value). Sometimes the not telling can make her think there is more there than there really is and cause some unnecessary headache.

mrearlygold · December 25, 2015 11:32AM

epcjimi1 · December 25, 2015 11:47AM

Originally posted by: Hydrant

My advice would be to keep looking. This one doesn't sound like the right one.

This is good advice from Hydrant.

hammer1 · December 25, 2015 11:55AM

Originally posted by: planonit
Well I am not married and I cannot (nor anyone hear) to your own personal situation but I have seen these conversations before and I always think the exact same thing:

How would she (or he) know what you have?
I mean if I got married unless she was a collector I doubt she would even have the much beyond a slight grasp of what I have. Besides a technically legal and/or ethical obligation I think it would be very, very easy to hide all or at least most of your collection if it came down to a divorce.

One way is through discovery. Looking at your credit card charges.

If you choose to perjure yourself when the wife's attorney asks if you have other assets/valuables, you can do that too. Not advisable.

WildIdea · December 25, 2015 12:07PM

I don't know what's involved with a prenuptial agreement but I'd think like most contracts they can be broken or renegotiated or deemed too expensive to enforce.

I would also think that if uncoupling freedom is sought it would be worth 50% of any price. Ah, Love, the ultimate collectible!

Raybo · December 25, 2015 1:24PM

Wish I had a prenup, the coins I had when I was married are now long gone.
Full set of FE and Indian cents in AU-BU state are now no where to be found. Do what you have to, protect your passion, it takes a long time to recover from your mistakes.

Bochiman · December 25, 2015 1:44PM

I've seen at least a few threads from forum members that have left the hobby for awhile due to divorcing and having to sell the coins, etc.

In today's world, I don't think there is anything wrong with a pre-nup, but, you aren't marrying me

So, I look at it this way:

* Are you both coming into this basically equal?

* Does one party have substantially more than the other?

* Does one party make more (or, does the other party not work)?

* How do 401ks look for each person? Company stock? (this is all fair game usually)

* Is she dead set against it? Has she brought it up?

* Are your coins generally quickly flipped or held for extremely long time? (as said, once a coin is purchased during the marriage, it is fair game and no longer "protected" by the pre-nup).

* Does the actual value of your collection really make sense to protect? Not being crass at all...different people have different value limits that make sense.

* If the worst case happened, and you had to split it, could you come to an equitable solution and would you want, or could you, figure out how to buy back "her" half? Ie....she keeps $x amount of stock in exchange for you keeping your coins.....

The answer to the pre-nup is going to be different for everyone so my only suggestion would be think of things like the questions above and see what makes sense for you.

planonit · December 25, 2015 2:47PM

Originally posted by: hammer1

Originally posted by: planonit
Well I am not married and I cannot (nor anyone hear) to your own personal situation but I have seen these conversations before and I always think the exact same thing:

How would she (or he) know what you have?
I mean if I got married unless she was a collector I doubt she would even have the much beyond a slight grasp of what I have. Besides a technically legal and/or ethical obligation I think it would be very, very easy to hide all or at least most of your collection if it came down to a divorce.

One way is through discovery. Looking at your credit card charges.

If you choose to perjure yourself when the wife's attorney asks if you have other assets/valuables, you can do that too. Not advisable.

Possible and while that is true I would say that at least 75% of my collection would have zero "paper trail".

DeepCoin · December 25, 2015 11:04PM

Coins are just another joint asset IMHO, not unlike cars, houses, 401s, etc. As was said before, much depends upon who has what when entering the marriage. Also, for people a bit older who marry late in life, thought should be given as to who inherits what. That is often the reason for second marriage pre-nups, especially between widows and widowers. It is not a one size fits all situation. Common sense should prevail. One way to look at it is what percentage of the assets you bring to a marriage are coins. Just MHO on this topic.

ctf_error_coins · December 25, 2015 11:52PM

I always thought marriage was Love.

LindeDad · December 26, 2015 12:05AM

From one who the marriage did not work for, talk to a attorney not a bunch of avatars on the web.

LindeDad · December 26, 2015 12:21AM

Originally posted by: ErrorsOnCoins

I always thought marriage was Love.

Very few are only that.

ColonelJessup · December 26, 2015 12:34AM

Been there, done that

A dealer, not a collector, so the stakes were higher from my end than from that of my schoolteacher 2nd wife. Each of us had a child, and we'd agreed (not in writing, just realistically) we'd have none of our own.

. Community property state? Equitable distribution state? Who brought what in? Who earned what when?

One of the key words I learned was "co-mingled". "I" set up a Trust up for my daughter.."We" split mortgage and ordinary household expenses. I was generous to a fault on everything else, but "so what?". Cars, jewelry, family vacations? Freely, happily given But I protected myself, my business, and my heirs.

You MUST consult an attorney.

LeeBone · December 26, 2015 2:53AM

From my own experience my wife did not care whatsoever about my coins while we were married. Fast forward to the divorce proceedings and boy did that change. Keep in mind I had acquired most of my collection before we were married but somehow that was overlooked since we had been together as girlfriend/boyfriend for the major part of me purchasing my coins. Also, think about how marriages usually don`t end peacefully and how bitter things can get and use your own best judgement; coins will most likely come into play during the separation no doubt. As for the prenup, my thoughts on this are if you are going into a lifelong commitment with any inclination of protecting yourself later on down the road, what are you really saying? I have recently remarried and I did not even consider a prenup. Just saying.

tradedollarnut · December 26, 2015 3:43AM

As for the prenup, my thoughts on this are if you are going into a lifelong commitment with any inclination of protecting yourself later on down the road, what are you really saying? .

That you can still think with your head and not with your.....

silverpop · December 26, 2015 4:34AM

never saw any use in such silly things

Walkerfan · December 26, 2015 4:40AM

Originally posted by: tradedollarnut

As for the prenup, my thoughts on this are if you are going into a lifelong commitment with any inclination of protecting yourself later on down the road, what are you really saying? .

That you can still think with your head and not with your.....

But the truth of the matter is that even the nicest girls can change. I have seen 20 year marriages implode and the only excuse was 'We've grown apart'. I say there is nothing wrong with legal protection, b/c you had better BET she will have her lawyer after YOU, if things go South.

TwoSides2aCoin · December 26, 2015 4:45AM

Last proposal I made she accepted. Then she mentioned a "pre-nup'. That was the end of the honeymoon.

Cougar1978 · December 26, 2015 4:59AM

Been married awhile. She has no idea except at tax time as joint filing. My activity last few years has been loss. She does not try but in on coin activities nor is a high threat. I have control of s significant amount of her money in one of my investment accounts and that would be just fine if she wanted take the coins and let me have that.

I can see how in a divorce a spouse could use the inventory value reported on a Schedule C as evidence as to the investment in a coin portfolio, business. A couple of guys in the coin club, recently divorced got sugar babies instead of a second wife. In this scenario keep your numismatic activity utr if possible and inventory under tight security. A SB can't not get it thru divorce court lol but could steal it from your home if an opportunity presented itself. Jim (guy in coin club) had a collection of Chinese Counterfeits - Trade Dollars, Seated Dollars, etc in flips in an album graded and priced at red book to show off to girls as "real coins". A dancer he was seeing stole it and contact lost. I can just c her taking that to a coin ship.....lol. He has not heard anything about that for months. He had probably did not have more than $60 in the whole 20+ coin collection with price tags showing thousands of dollars each for the fake coins -3c nickel, barber, seated, treade dollars.

So fake or not keep your collection under tight security. One could keep active material they have listed online in a home safe and the rest in a bank box in their name. I know of one fellow having returned from a show who had his briefcase of coins unattended in his home over the course of a couple of days taken by a wife who was leaving him.

epcjimi1 · December 26, 2015 5:40AM

Last thing I'd do is post here. MHO.

CRAZY

epcjimi1 · December 26, 2015 6:33AM

spilling stories on the internet regardless of circumstance, is not a good idea, MHO.

LeeBone · December 26, 2015 7:06AM

Originally posted by: Walkerfan

Originally posted by: tradedollarnut

As for the prenup, my thoughts on this are if you are going into a lifelong commitment with any inclination of protecting yourself later on down the road, what are you really saying? .

That you can still think with your head and not with your.....

But the truth of the matter is that even the nicest girls can change. I have seen 20 year marriages implode and the only excuse was 'We've grown apart'. I say there is nothing wrong with legal protection, b/c you had better BET she will have her lawyer after YOU, if things go South.

1) Not thinking with my...

2) Yes, anyone can change. I`ve heard and witnessed the same kind of stories about how one person says "We`ve grown apart." You can go ahead and "protect yourself" with a prenup but that`s kind of like saying "When we divorce" and that starts off the commitment with a sour twist which will always be there IMO

To each his own...

TwoSides2aCoin · December 26, 2015 7:13AM

Originally posted by: epcjimi1

spilling stories on the internet regardless of circumstance, is not a good idea, MHO.

" Never believe anything you read and only half of what you see "
This was a teaching of my late mother. She died, but I know she's still talking because one day my brother said, "Every time you open your mouth , I hear your mother" . Laughing, I responded with : "Oh good. Then you still hear her too".

Whether people take this thread and make it about U.S. Coins is another story.

BAJJERFAN · December 26, 2015 7:58AM

Originally posted by: baseball

Posting on a forum like this is the very first thing anyone should do. Where else might the OP find someone who might have actually gone through the EXACT same situation? Of course all responses should be vetted and taken with a grain of salt but information is not a finite resource. Why not avail oneself to as much of it as one can get???

Now an attorney should obviously be consulted at some point to hammer out the details and elicit their opinion on the matter. But only a FOOL would do that without learning as much as one could prior to engaging with them.

Soliciting advice is one thing, but just because it's given is not a requirement to follow it. Bernard Meltzer used to refer to the "life experience" wherein what was supposed to happen isn't what really happened.

hammer1 · December 26, 2015 10:15AM

Originally posted by: baseball
And there's a man that could steal your wife under such same circumstances. Those are the facts of life.

Look baseball your wife and I were just talking, okay.

hammer1 · December 26, 2015 11:11AM

Originally posted by: baseball

Originally posted by: hammer1

Originally posted by: baseball
And there's a man that could steal your wife under such same circumstances. Those are the facts of life.

Look baseball your wife and I were just talking, okay.

I'm guessing my SO is probably young enough to be your grandchild. But if being a perverted old fogy is what works for you, then take your best shot.

Actually we were talking about how much older you are than me. Gramps...

s4ny · December 26, 2015 9:43PM

Oscar Wilde:

“Marriage is the triumph of imagination over intelligence. Second marriage is the triumph of hope over experience.”

"Bigamy is having one wife too many. Monogamy is the same."

"Niagara Falls must be the second major disappointment of American married life."

drfish · December 26, 2015 10:59PM

If you get divorced my experience is that your soon to be ex will become very interested in your collection. My ex often complained about my collecting time and showed no interest in the hobby. Luckily I kept all receipts so she only ended up with half of what was acquired during the marriage ( 70K worth ) My lawyer and documents were pretty good so I kept all of my pre marriage coins. On the upside it was all about the value so I was able to give her the coins that were mostly second tier and keep the more appealing ones. I did buy some of "our" nicer coins back at a discount when she sold them on eBay.
Having gone through the divorce and especially after the battle to keep my business (which was paid for and well established before I ever met the ex ), I would whole heartedly reccomend a pre-nup. You never know when your wife will fall in love with her tennis pro.

BAJJERFAN · December 27, 2015 12:46AM

Originally posted by: DaveG

Well, if you're serious, you shouldn't be asking us clowns, you should be asking A COMPETENT attorney.

There are lots of collectors (art, cars, etc.) out there, I'm sure there are some standard solutions to protect their collections.

FIFY

BAJJERFAN · December 27, 2015 12:48AM

IF one does get one, is it necessary to even inform the other person about it?

7Jaguars · December 27, 2015 1:13AM

Hmm, prenups in Cali are null after 10 years to the best of my knowledge....Also, there is such a thing as a forensic financial evaluation.

BAJJERFAN · December 27, 2015 1:33AM

Originally posted by: 7Jaguars

Hmm, prenups in Cali are null after 10 years to the best of my knowledge....Also, there is such a thing as a forensic financial evaluation.

So basically you would have to account for every financial transaction you ever made in your life? How many could do that?

Icollecteverything · December 27, 2015 1:20PM

I am a lucky guy.

LogPotato · December 27, 2015 1:23PM

Originally posted by: Icollecteverything

I am a lucky guy.

Agreed.

TopographicOceans · December 27, 2015 1:26PM

Forget the cash, stocks and real-estate
SAVE THE COINS

Christos · December 27, 2015 2:27PM

The only way for you to get the appearance of security is through a prenup. The only way to keep all of your coins is to not get married and further to not have a significant other for any length of time. Cohabitation in many states gives rights to assets.

The real question is : Are you willing to give up your coin collection for your potential wife? If the answer is yes then no worries, if the answer is no then the answer is prenup.

Basically you need to determine where your true love is, coins or the person who will hold you when you need to cry.

Bochiman · December 27, 2015 2:28PM

Originally posted by: BAJJERFAN

IF one does get one, is it necessary to even inform the other person about it?

From what I have seen, yes. They sign and acknowledge it

Has anyone gotten a prenup specifically to protect a coin collection?

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