Thoughts on this 1805 quarter

USMarine6 · December 24, 2015 6:19AM

Just picked this up recently at a local auction and thought id ask the forums their opinions on it. What might you all give it grade wise? Also if you notice on the reverse there are three marks running north to south through the shield. Were adjustments marks used this late? they appear to have been there a while. Any opinions good or bad are certainly welcome. I think it should get a pass at our hosts or at least Im hoping. I did use a little more light in order to show the marks on the reverse. Its better in hand. Merry Christmas everyone and you all have a great holiday with your family, friends and coins.

abcde12345 · December 24, 2015 6:45AM

Your quarter has gumption.

It's a keeper.

Grade wise? Probably about VF'ish (net).

AUandAG · December 24, 2015 6:56AM

Sorry I looked at the reverse....

So often nice coins were not appreciated for what they were.

A lot of meat.

35? net of course

bob

Baley · December 24, 2015 7:07AM

I like this coin very much overall, however I think those marks on the reverse are scratches (not adjustment marks), quite possibly "test marks" that are over 200 years old, inflicted when the coin was new and the design unfamiliar to a merchant, a scratch will reveal the underlying metal if the coin were plated. There are also some voids that look like "digs" in the left obverse fields that must be taken into account in a net grade.

The good news is the details of the motifs are strong very fine and surfaces are excellent, far far above average and remarkably original as in Never cleaned. I'll leave it to others to attribute the Browning variety, for the type I'd say VF+ details, net VG11, if PCGS awards a numerical grade, look for a "quiet" net grade that seems low at first glance at the slab (F12 or maybe 15). I've got a couple early coins that are borderline slab/bag and they graded but the grades look conservative until you take a closer look.

Lots of history here, awesome coin and season's greetings

kaz · December 24, 2015 7:09AM

Nice looking old quarter. I'm thinking maybe fine on the details. I think the marks on the rev, if I am reading the photos right, are post mint, as they seem to go through the shield lines.

scubafuel · December 24, 2015 7:14AM

So I have good news and bad news on this coin...I'll post the good news first.

You've managed to cherrypick a very rare quarter! This is B-5, listed as R5 and the rarest variety of 1805. Easy to tell by the curled stem above the "C" in 25C. In one of the latest censuses, there are only 4-5 coins above VF (which is what I'd grade this one). It brings a large premium when auctioned, which is almost never, but there are a few to check out on Heritage.

And for the bad news. It's not unknown for coins to have adjustment marks this late, but IMO these are not them. Adjustment marks are done on blank planchets and struck over, while these three lines look to have been cut down through the coin after striking. If so, it will get a "details" grade. I could be wrong though and if you decide to send it in I hope you'll post the results!

Matt

TomB · December 24, 2015 7:17AM

I like it. It's a strong VF with lots of meat, great patina and wonderful eye appeal. However, as you are aware by now, although adjustment marks can be found on coins issued this late, those are no way, no how adjustment marks; they are post-mint damage.

abcde12345 · December 24, 2015 7:47AM

Originally posted by: TomB

I like it. It's a strong VF with lots of meat, great patina and wonderful eye appeal. However, as you are aware by now, although adjustment marks can be found on coins issued this late, those are no way, no how adjustment marks; they are post-mint damage.

Post mint damage, to be sure, yet blend somewhat nicely for the coin.

Place those identical scratches on a bright Morgan and it would be an eyesore.

Somehow, on this 1805, it works. It is bad, of course, but looks alright.

sellitstore · December 24, 2015 7:57AM

I think that they may be adjustment marks.

Scratches would be in the fields, too, and these marks are largely confined to the raised portions of the coin. The right mark does appear in the field between the ribbon and top of wing but appears to be weaker here than immediately above and below, and is absent in fields above and below.

Adjustment marks tend to strike out and disappear in the fields, where the raised part of the die (the fields and low points of the coin) first meet. The raised parts of the coin (eagle design) are the low part of the die, so the scratches here, tend to be preserved during the striking process.

The parallel nature of these marks is diagnostic of adjustment marks while unusual for a test mark.

Only the deepest adjustment marks often survive striking, and I think that this may be the case here.

Otherwise the coin is a nice original, grey toned VF.

USMarine6 · December 24, 2015 8:20AM

Thanks SF for the browning #. Wish I could say That it was a true cherry pick but I'll be honest and say I didn't have a clue when I bought it. My first thought on the coin was mid vf and its certainly original. It will be going to our hosts early this week and ill be sure to post the results. I'm also guessing now that Ill have to pay up for variety attribution. lol

hchcoin · December 24, 2015 8:56AM

lkeigwin · December 24, 2015 9:18AM

Those don't look like any adjustment marks I've ever seen. I'm with TomB.

It is a wholesome, original-looking example and a certainly worth keeping. Congrats on scoring a scarce variety!

Lance.

Christos · December 24, 2015 2:47PM

Nice looking original coin and fantastic that it turned out to be a rare item also.

ColonelJessup · December 24, 2015 11:24PM

Originally posted by: TomB
I like it. It's a strong VF with lots of meat, great patina and wonderful eye appeal. However, as you are aware by now, although adjustment marks can be found on coins issued this late, those are no way, no how adjustment marks; they are post-mint damage.

+1, but for that very likeable

garrynot · December 25, 2015 12:28AM

Very nice quarter. Congrats.

CaptHenway · December 25, 2015 12:47AM

It is what it is, a fairly nice coin with a few scratches. I'm only 65 and I have more than a few scratches on me, but my wife finds me lovable. Enjoy it as it is!

stman · December 25, 2015 4:58AM

They aren't adjustment marks in my opinion but, I like the look of this one and could appreciate the coin even with the marks on the reverse.

ricko · December 25, 2015 7:08AM

That is a nice looking old coin... however, I believe those marks are PMD... not sure how

they were imparted.... Cheers, RickO

lakeshore · December 25, 2015 12:17PM

Kind of sad that so much attention is being paid to a few scratches. I think it is a very nice, meaty, original example of a very scarce variety, with a circ cameo look

Dave99B · December 25, 2015 12:45PM

I'd say original VF30.

Probably would not holder, but so what, it's still a beautiful quarter!

Dave

winky · December 26, 2015 12:16AM

lots of originality here. I like it but would not buy it.

USMarine6 · January 9, 2016 3:48AM

Just got the grade back on this one. PCGS called a fine details damaged. Here is the cert # 32482025. Thought it had a little more meat on it than a fine but hey.

CaptHenway · January 9, 2016 4:04AM

I suspect that if not damaged it would have made VF. The reverse is a strong VF. However, the scratching might have slightly bent the coin, bowing the obverse out and causing the obverse to wear faster than the reverse after the scratching.

USMarine6 · January 9, 2016 4:05AM

Id also like to give a shot out to Scubafuel (Matt) for giving me some insight and the correct attribution on this coin. This coin was purchased at a local auction for only $775 or so and will end up being my best score ever.

rhedden · January 9, 2016 4:13AM

Draped Bust quarters are one of the few U.S. coin series where every coin in the series is a condition rarity. A rare die marriage with F/VF detail is a "high grade" example, and a die marriage collector would probably welcome the opportunity to take this R5 beast into their collection for less money than a problem-free specimen would bring.

Baley · January 9, 2016 4:31AM

Great coin, very tough variety, yours is a lot nicer than my B5

USMarine6 · January 11, 2016 2:26AM

Just received this back today and paid for a true view on this and it hasent been uploaded to the site yet. Does that seem odd to anyone else? In the meantime here is a down and dirty quick pic.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 11, 2016 2:40AM

Score
Scores
Scored
… Take your pick. I like it.

oih82w8 · January 11, 2016 5:17AM

Nice quarter all around (minus the obviously discussed reverse damage). I just checked and there was no image loaded yet. Strange, the images are usually posted prior to shipping. PCGS probably has a lot of catching up to do with the past holiday "time off" and the overtime at FUN.

kaz · January 11, 2016 9:00AM

that's a darn nice looking coin, and terrific score on the rarity.

RogerRamjet · January 11, 2016 12:47PM

Would take the scratches over my "holy" B-5. But, for now, this is my Variety "hole" filler. Graded as "PCGS VG-Details holed"

USMarine6 · January 14, 2016 2:28AM

For what its worth the true view was posted today.

RogerRamjet · January 14, 2016 11:23AM

RogerRamjet · January 16, 2016 5:54AM

Thought I would post the auction:

Ebay listing for the 1805 B-5

Thoughts on this 1805 quarter

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