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Millenials/Eco-Boomers and coin collecting an expanded perspective
Greeniejr
Posts: 1,321 ✭✭✭
In response to the post about jewelry stores closing I think this topic deserves its own thread. There are significant economic and social changes occurring that are having a significant impact on our hobby. No one of them would change things drastically but as a whole, may change things forever. As an “eco-boomer” myself, a child of someone born towards the end of the baby boom, I feel I can provide some insight into these factors.
An argument I have always made is that collectors are born and not created. If a person has the inclination to collect, they will collect no matter what it is. It is influences and exposures early in life that influence collecting habits later on. I have spoken to many collectors who are in their 40s and 50s who returning to the hobby and almost invariably, they all had some sort of coin collection when they were children. They all had stories about pleasant experiences with relatives and friends that made them want to come back. This was fantastic for the people who are now 45-70 because they lived through the change from Silver coinage to clad and were able to find all sorts of goodies in their change. Part of what we are dealing with now is the result of decades of boring money. There were no changing coin designs, there were no cherries to be picked and in a constantly rising market, children were often ignored because they were not profitable. On the bright side, over the last 20 years there has been a distinct effort to get children back into the hobby. The state and ATB quarters have also given people something cheap to look for in their everyday change. There is hope.
This is not the only issue. Unlike previous generations, millennials tend to be more about quality rather than quantity when it comes to stuff. That could be anything from clothes, furniture, cars, jewelry, whatever. They would rather have a few nice things than have loads of bulk. I remember when I was setting up my first condo, all I wanted to buy was a nice couch, a nice TV and a nice bed. Who needs dressers, desks and dining room sets? Part of this philosophy has to do with money but part of it has to do with the transient lifestyle of many people who may only stay in a home for 3-6 years. I remember helping a relative downsize from the house she lived in for 25 years and she did not understand why I thought it was weird she had an unopened deli slicer from the early 1990s…. among other things. This kind of philosophy affects us because people are buying fewer, nicer things and dumping the bulk.
In the previous thread someone mentioned the fact that people get out of school with 35k in student loans and only make 35-50k per year. While people in these income brackets are important to the sustainability of our industry, I would argue their collecting habits don’t move our market much. People who collect for the love of collecting will buy coins even if they have only a few bucks to spend on it. It is their escape, their fun and valuable to us all. The area that concerns me is the people making 100K+ BUT have 100-300k in student loans. People who are parts of professions such as doctors and lawyers are saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. These professions have produced many of the wealthy collectors in the past but people starting out today have huge debt loads to service. This amounts to 2k or more a month in payments just for debt service. You add the cost of housing which is constantly rising and childcare (also insanely expensive but necessary when you have 2 working parents to get the bigger income), and people who used to be “rich” are living very comfortably but without the disposable income that used to produce the upper mid-section of our business.
Lastly, being absolutely practical, millennials and eco-boomers are not yet in the sweet spot as far as age as the greatest market for coins. Most of the people I have seen re-enter the market in the last decade are in their 40s or 50s. These are people who have families, established careers and finally have some extra disposable income. People who currently fall into that age bracket are the end of the Gen-X people and Gen-Y. I really don’t know about their behavior patterns but it is the lack of their entry into the market that may be slowing things down. That’s not to say eco-boomers will be any different but most are still under 40, are still starting families and are less progressed in their careers.
An argument I have always made is that collectors are born and not created. If a person has the inclination to collect, they will collect no matter what it is. It is influences and exposures early in life that influence collecting habits later on. I have spoken to many collectors who are in their 40s and 50s who returning to the hobby and almost invariably, they all had some sort of coin collection when they were children. They all had stories about pleasant experiences with relatives and friends that made them want to come back. This was fantastic for the people who are now 45-70 because they lived through the change from Silver coinage to clad and were able to find all sorts of goodies in their change. Part of what we are dealing with now is the result of decades of boring money. There were no changing coin designs, there were no cherries to be picked and in a constantly rising market, children were often ignored because they were not profitable. On the bright side, over the last 20 years there has been a distinct effort to get children back into the hobby. The state and ATB quarters have also given people something cheap to look for in their everyday change. There is hope.
This is not the only issue. Unlike previous generations, millennials tend to be more about quality rather than quantity when it comes to stuff. That could be anything from clothes, furniture, cars, jewelry, whatever. They would rather have a few nice things than have loads of bulk. I remember when I was setting up my first condo, all I wanted to buy was a nice couch, a nice TV and a nice bed. Who needs dressers, desks and dining room sets? Part of this philosophy has to do with money but part of it has to do with the transient lifestyle of many people who may only stay in a home for 3-6 years. I remember helping a relative downsize from the house she lived in for 25 years and she did not understand why I thought it was weird she had an unopened deli slicer from the early 1990s…. among other things. This kind of philosophy affects us because people are buying fewer, nicer things and dumping the bulk.
In the previous thread someone mentioned the fact that people get out of school with 35k in student loans and only make 35-50k per year. While people in these income brackets are important to the sustainability of our industry, I would argue their collecting habits don’t move our market much. People who collect for the love of collecting will buy coins even if they have only a few bucks to spend on it. It is their escape, their fun and valuable to us all. The area that concerns me is the people making 100K+ BUT have 100-300k in student loans. People who are parts of professions such as doctors and lawyers are saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. These professions have produced many of the wealthy collectors in the past but people starting out today have huge debt loads to service. This amounts to 2k or more a month in payments just for debt service. You add the cost of housing which is constantly rising and childcare (also insanely expensive but necessary when you have 2 working parents to get the bigger income), and people who used to be “rich” are living very comfortably but without the disposable income that used to produce the upper mid-section of our business.
Lastly, being absolutely practical, millennials and eco-boomers are not yet in the sweet spot as far as age as the greatest market for coins. Most of the people I have seen re-enter the market in the last decade are in their 40s or 50s. These are people who have families, established careers and finally have some extra disposable income. People who currently fall into that age bracket are the end of the Gen-X people and Gen-Y. I really don’t know about their behavior patterns but it is the lack of their entry into the market that may be slowing things down. That’s not to say eco-boomers will be any different but most are still under 40, are still starting families and are less progressed in their careers.
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In response to the post about jewelry stores closing I think this topic deserves its own thread. There are significant economic and social changes occurring that are having a significant impact on our hobby. No one of them would change things drastically but as a whole, may change things forever. As an “eco-boomer” myself, a child of someone born towards the end of the baby boom, I feel I can provide some insight into these factors.
An argument I have always made is that collectors are born and not created. If a person has the inclination to collect, they will collect no matter what it is. It is influences and exposures early in life that influence collecting habits later on. I have spoken to many collectors who are in their 40s and 50s who returning to the hobby and almost invariably, they all had some sort of coin collection when they were children. They all had stories about pleasant experiences with relatives and friends that made them want to come back. This was fantastic for the people who are now 45-70 because they lived through the change from Silver coinage to clad and were able to find all sorts of goodies in their change. Part of what we are dealing with now is the result of decades of boring money. There were no changing coin designs, there were no cherries to be picked and in a constantly rising market, children were often ignored because they were not profitable. On the bright side, over the last 20 years there has been a distinct effort to get children back into the hobby. The state and ATB quarters have also given people something cheap to look for in their everyday change. There is hope.
This is not the only issue. Unlike previous generations, millennials tend to be more about quality rather than quantity when it comes to stuff. That could be anything from clothes, furniture, cars, jewelry, whatever. They would rather have a few nice things than have loads of bulk. I remember when I was setting up my first condo, all I wanted to buy was a nice couch, a nice TV and a nice bed. Who needs dressers, desks and dining room sets? Part of this philosophy has to do with money but part of it has to do with the transient lifestyle of many people who may only stay in a home for 3-6 years. I remember helping a relative downsize from the house she lived in for 25 years and she did not understand why I thought it was weird she had an unopened deli slicer from the early 1990s…. among other things. This kind of philosophy affects us because people are buying fewer, nicer things and dumping the bulk.
In the previous thread someone mentioned the fact that people get out of school with 35k in student loans and only make 35-50k per year. While people in these income brackets are important to the sustainability of our industry, I would argue their collecting habits don’t move our market much. People who collect for the love of collecting will buy coins even if they have only a few bucks to spend on it. It is their escape, their fun and valuable to us all. The area that concerns me is the people making 100K+ BUT have 100-300k in student loans. People who are parts of professions such as doctors and lawyers are saddled with hundreds of thousands of dollars in student loans. These professions have produced many of the wealthy collectors in the past but people starting out today have huge debt loads to service. This amounts to 2k or more a month in payments just for debt service. You add the cost of housing which is constantly rising and childcare (also insanely expensive but necessary when you have 2 working parents to get the bigger income), and people who used to be “rich” are living very comfortably but without the disposable income that used to produce the upper mid-section of our business.
Lastly, being absolutely practical, millennials and eco-boomers are not yet in the sweet spot as far as age as the greatest market for coins. Most of the people I have seen re-enter the market in the last decade are in their 40s or 50s. These are people who have families, established careers and finally have some extra disposable income. People who currently fall into that age bracket are the end of the Gen-X people and Gen-Y. I really don’t know about their behavior patterns but it is the lack of their entry into the market that may be slowing things down. That’s not to say eco-boomers will be any different but most are still under 40, are still starting families and are less progressed in their careers.
Paragraphed.
How did you to that? THANKS!!!!
I just added 2 < br> HTML tags (without the space after the
There is a great thread on this here: How do I create paragraphs on this site? PCGS, please answer this!
Too many positive BST transactions with too many members to list.
Thanks for putting the OPs post into paragraphs. Now can you summarize the key points in bullets?
Here you go
- no money = no coins
It's a good post and worth reading for the details
It's a good post and worth reading for the details
I read the entire post and I agree.
CC
Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍
My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):
https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/
The younger baby boomers and older members of the next generation are also groping with the cost of education of their kids, and older boomers are concerned as well with respect to grand kids. This means that large amounts of money must be saved or provided for tuition or the repayment of loans, sapping money from other purposes.
Ultimately, some of the older folks will outlive their money. This may include the parents of boomers and the boomers themselves, requiring their children to pitch in for their support, again diverting money from hobbies.
These factors will impact not just those in Romney’s 47% class, but the “upper middle” class professionals. That group will also continue to get clobbered by tax increases sine the 47% have no money left at the end of the day to pay taxes and the tax cuts will benefit those at the top of the 1% group. That leaves the upper tier of the 1% group to support the “market.” In so far as the market means “cover of the catalog” trophy coins, those have always been a rich man’s game and there will still be “whales” competing to own those items, though perhaps fewer competing for them. The more widgety masses of coins, even nice gems but not trophy grade material, are likely to attract much less interest.
Unless of course I am missing some law of economics that says coin prices have to go up.
CG
However, coins are in competition with a lot of other venues: Gaming (a guy at a recent show said he sold more in a book he published on his own about how to do well in GTAO - Grand Theft Auto Online), Strip Clubbing, Sports Events, and Sugar Dating. Current Market Conditions have not helped attracting collectors and investors either. A guy I showed a $400 coin at a recent show said he might be back to buy the coin. He returned to my talble and it appeared he was going to buy it right? He said "You can sell it to someone else, I have decided I am going to invest that in a Play Station 4 and copy of GTAO (Grand Theft Auto Online) for PS4. Rockstar does not support my PS3 (Old Generation) for GTAO with its latest update of lowriders and option to own a 4th property. That will give me 40 cars total capacity in my garages, and I am going to buy the garage off Poplar Street as I already have a high end apartment in Weazel Plasa. I want to transfer my character, a level 185 to new generation (PS4) with all his weapons, cars, money, properties, and awards. GTAO on PS4 has better graphics too. Most of my Crew Mates have moved to new generation also."
Latin American Collection
Can't you just hit "enter" after a sentence to create a new paragraph. I guess
it depends on your specific software.
Your ideas provide a lot of insight into the future of the hobby. It suggests that
the current sluggishness is the result of two generations which never got interes-
ted in coins since they were deemed "boring" and a new generation that's lagging
somewhat due to extensive debt.
The earliest states collectors are now 20 to 28 years of age so their reentry to this
great hobby may be delayed somewhat. It will be fascinating to see what these
young folks are interested in since their tastes will define the hobby and the mar-
ket for the next 35 years or more.
There is little love for coins or paper in everyday life. Even on this forum people say they prefer and often carry only plastic. Some would prefer that coins and paper money would disappear completely.
2. I've tried to start collectors in my own family. I have given coins and Eagles for years but have never sparked a collector in own my family and only one friend started collecting.
3. When the Statehood Quarters were released I knew quite a few people who collected them. They even bought folders and maps. I remember reading that there might be a million new coin collectors. Of all the people that I knew, not one has ever purchased a coin and none have any interest in coins.
4. Economy and jobs. Good news in the job market today. New jobs took a nice jump up. Employment dropped a little. Interesting side note, 378,000 of the new jobs are in the 55 to 69 year group, the 25 to 54 year group lost 35,000.
In sum, I don't believe coin collecting will ever go away. There have been coin collector's for centuries, even during the depression and that is likely to continue. On the other hand, B&M stores, coin shows and the number of collectors in general may all go somewhat the way of the jewelry stores. And that may not be a bad thing for those of us that are left. When a nice 1907 Roman Numeral Ultra High Relief comes down to 10% over spot, I'm going to finally be able to get me one of those suckers.
BST Transactions (as the seller): Collectall, GRANDAM, epcjimi1, wondercoin, jmski52, wheathoarder, jay1187, jdsueu, grote15, airplanenut, bigole
Growing up in the 60's was a lot different. The kids today are used to instant gratification and that's what they want. They have iPads, iPhones, iThings.
In the old days we had pocket change to search.
I work a job with quite a bit of exposure to people of all ages, even kids. Also, a variety of ethnicities and variety of apparent economic status. I have tried to do things like give away these quarters or the newer buffalo nickels when they came out and met with very little response. On the other hand, ALL kids had Kindles, iPods, iPhones, iPads, etc. My son and his friends just laugh at the thought of collecting coins or that anybody could like them. So they collect alright - video games, which themselves only have transient interest, and then later girls (or boys). The notion that there are a million new collectors of coins is almost laughable.
While we live on the East Coast, it has been nearly exactly the same in the MidWest, and California and Arizona.
Well, just Love coins, period.