Originally posted by: TomB For example, let's say that the exhibit space required by the ANA is 20% of the floor space. If a 200,000 contiguous square foot venue is required for a single floor then this breaks down to 160,000 square feet for the bourse and 40,000 square feet for the exhibits, give or take some extra, miscellaneous space. However, if you can split the exhibits off from the bourse then the ANA requirement of a venue might still be approximately 200,000 square feet, but venues and cities that have two floors (160,000 square feet and 40,000 square feet) could participate in the bid process, if there is local interest.
Unfortunately, situations like that are strongly disliked and not as practical as you'd think.
First of all, that would require additional security in a separate location. Realize that the ANA pays -- depending on the city -- up to $80k just to provide security at our WFoM. We really don't want to cause that to go any higher if not necessary.
Second, the exhibitors don't like to have their exhibits segregated from the main hall. Additionally, attendance in the exhibit area drops significantly when it not located on the main hall.
The biggest problem that we face is the value we represent to a convention center.. not the difference between finding a 160k sqft hall vs. a 200k sqft one.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
What will end up happening will be that some/many dealers won't stay for the whole show. Thus the collectors who spend their hard earned money (and vacation days) to come will see maybe 70% of the dealers instead of the full 100% that they are fully entitled to see.
I agree that dealers leaving early is a problem at most major shows, but it really shouldn't happen at the ANA shows. As a dealer one thing I would like the ANA to do is either enforce punishment against those table holders who pack up early and/or reward those of us who do stay until the very end of the show.
Sure, I understand that some dealers can't stay until the very end and there are plenty of excuses as to why they can't stay... whatever... but those dealers who are known to regularly leave early should maybe be punished by getting tables in the back of their sections at the next show (lose most or all of their stars for the table draw), thereby providing a big incentive to have dealers stay and giving a decent reward to those who actually do stay until the end.
Alternatively, I bet you'd have more dealers staying until the end if all table holders had to pay a $1000 or so deposit in addition to the normal bourse fee that is only refunded in person at the end of the show if the dealers are still in attendance. Of course, that would never happen, but it would certainly improve the shows.
I agree with the problem on dealers leaving early. Move such dealers to areas where when they do leave, they don't leave a gawking empty table(s)/space in the middle of the bourse setup/floor.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
..........and they like to attend church as I do......a much more important duty than bartering behind a table for 10 hours. I really don't trust dealers if they miss that certain quality about them. I've discussed the subject with quite a few. At our table, we split the morning up to attend, wherever we are. There's not a greater adventure than visiting a church that belongs to your synod. Great way to meet new people who share your beliefs and interests.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
I for one would like to see dealers post the price of a coin on the front of the coin where you can see it.
I absolutely agree. It's a waste of time on my part as a potential buyer to see a whole display of PCGS coins and not have any visible prices. Am I supposed to spend time asking what each coin's price is? When I see a dealer with no prices listed, I just move on to the next table.
Putting the price on the front of the slab makes it an added security risk. Why make it easier for the thieves to see what coins they could possibly steal? It's a reality.
mark
That excuse doesn't make sense. Like the average person at a coin show doesn't already have a pretty good idea which are the more expensive coins under the display case. And they don't need to price every single coin but perhaps the more common ones that would appeal to the most collectors. I think it's laziness that some dealers don't put prices on their coins. But they just lose sales because it just places an additional barrier for selling a coin. It's often not worth the hassle to have to engage with a dealer to know the prices for many coins when as a collector, I'd like to just look and quickly compare prices with the coins to see which ones interest me the most. No prices listed just adds hassle to the looking and 99 times out of 100, I'll just move on to the next table. If prices are listed, I'll spend a lot of time looking.
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Since it has been many years since a major ANA show in Seattle (since before I got back into collecting, I do believe, so I don't know the dates), do you give the Convention Center your estimate based on previous year(s) at other locations? Obviously, you can't do a comparison from a Seattle show.
The room night & food / beverage numbers are fairly consistent from city to city and year to year.
The problem is two-fold:
1) Only hotel rooms booked out of the official ANA block are counted.
For example, in Anaheim next year, this is the Hilton Anaheim. Any rooms booked at any other hotel do not count. If someone is a Marriott person and stay there.. doesn't count. If someone doesn't want to pay the negotiated price and stays at Motel 6.. doesn't count.
We have to be conservative in the hotel night block we ask for because we guarantee that 80% of that number will be filled. If not, we have to pay the hotel ourselves.
2) The Food & Beverage spending is at the convention center.
Leasing convention center halls is not a very high margin activity for the center... they make their money charging $59 for a gallon of coffee and $27 for a box lunch. (These are actual Anaheim Convention Center prices)
The ANA does not have a bunch of lavish dinners like a medical convention may have... having 250 people attending a dinner each night at $40-50 a head.
As a result, the convention center looks at the square footage we require (quite significant!) vs. the ancillary revenue we provide (which isn't much).
When we ask for bids, we provide our historical figures and the convention center provides a bid or they don't. They don't say "Well, another 250 hotel nights and you have a deal."
Greg
Greg, I don't know if this will help but for the 1st time in over 15 years of doing Baltimore Whitman is asking dealers to report their room nights if they did not book their room in the Whitman room blocks. Perhaps the ANA could do something along these lines? In 20 years of attending shows I believe I have only booked through a show room block once or twice.
Originally posted by: amwldcoinGreg, I don't know if this will help but for the 1st time in over 15 years of doing Baltimore Whitman is asking dealers to report their room nights if they did not book their room in the Whitman room blocks. Perhaps the ANA could do something along these lines? In 20 years of attending shows I believe I have only booked through a show room block once or twice.
If you book at one of our convention hotels, we do have a way to track and get credit for that. However, many attendees are loyal to a specific brand or will simply book whatever is cheapest (or use Priceline). If they don't book one of the convention hotels, there's no way we can get credit for it.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
I have a specific question for the DEALERS that I'd like to pose for our committee's discussion: WHAT IS YOUR PREFERRED CITY TO HOLD AN ANA SHOW, AND WHAT ARE YOUR REASONS?
I know it doesn't seem very popular with some, but I really liked having the show in Chicago. Centrally located for folks from both coasts (dealers and customers). Lots of flights in and out, lots of hotels. Big city with lots to do for those who need a day away from the show. The Chicago shows seemed very well attended too.
Of course, I think the ANA shows should move around to help reach customers who don't travel or don't travel as far. And moving the shows around probably helps with the ANA's mission to educate too. But Chicago would be a great city that the ANA should go back to every other year or every couple of years.
And of course anything in Southern California is great
My opinion is similar to illini420's in that I think Chicago is an excellent choice for the ANA. It is convenient to major transportation hubs (air and road), has plenty of nearby, quality rooms and is centrally located for most of the country. Chicago has a bad rep on these boards, it seems at times, and I imagine it is due to so many ANA shows that have been held there recently. However, I think it has most everything going for it to host an ANA.
I for one would like to see dealers post the price of a coin on the front of the coin where you can see it.
I absolutely agree. It's a waste of time on my part as a potential buyer to see a whole display of PCGS coins and not have any visible prices. Am I supposed to spend time asking what each coin's price is? When I see a dealer with no prices listed, I just move on to the next table.
Putting the price on the front of the slab makes it an added security risk. Why make it easier for the thieves to see what coins they could possibly steal? It's a reality.
mark
That excuse doesn't make sense. Like the average person at a coin show doesn't already have a pretty good idea which are the more expensive coins under the display case. And they don't need to price every single coin but perhaps the more common ones that would appeal to the most collectors. I think it's laziness that some dealers don't put prices on their coins. But they just lose sales because it just places an additional barrier for selling a coin. It's often not worth the hassle to have to engage with a dealer to know the prices for many coins when as a collector, I'd like to just look and quickly compare prices with the coins to see which ones interest me the most. No prices listed just adds hassle to the looking and 99 times out of 100, I'll just move on to the next table. If prices are listed, I'll spend a lot of time looking.
That excuse doesn't make sense to you perhaps. Thieves come in all shapes in sizes and I'm pretty sure they all aren't coin collectors or are coin savvy. Marking slabs with prices makes non coin collecting thieves smarter. Will they target a coin marked $300 in a dealers case to steal or one marked $3000? Will they follow home a dealer with a case full of $10,000 coins or one with a case full of $100 coins? I don't think most dealers are lazy and I actually think that if you can't take the time to ask what a coin costs borders on the same.
mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
1) As other have mentioned, the show is too long. IMHO, Monday-Tuesday preshow (if any), Wednesday morning dealer setup for dealers who didn't do the preshow, Wednesday afternoon entrance to ANA members only, Thursday and Friday regular show and Saturday free entrance for all with activities for children. Should cover it and leave everybody with plenty of choices and collectors the chance to attend.
2) Show location: Chicago has had it's fair share of shows lately, and I think should be put on hold for awhile. CA is expensive for out-of-state dealers. MN is out of the question because of the bullion law. HI and AK are too far away for many (but would make it a nice vacation destination). That leaves plenty of major cities with good transportation options. Two that I could see as good options:
-Salt Lake City, UT. Airport is a major hub for Delta, making flights in a breeze if you're not too loyal to an airline. Nice weather in the summer (generally) and has coin history.
-Charlotte, NC. Same reasons as above (except for Delta, but it does have a large airport with decent connections)
3) Keep table prices reasonable, and unlike the last ANA show, where tables up front where sold at a discount the week prior to the show allot any empty tables in the premium section to dealers in the back of the room.
Originally posted by: Stooge I for one would like to see dealers post the price of a coin on the front of the coin where you can see it.
I absolutely agree. It's a waste of time on my part as a potential buyer to see a whole display of PCGS coins and not have any visible prices. Am I supposed to spend time asking what each coin's price is? When I see a dealer with no prices listed, I just move on to the next table.
Putting the price on the front of the slab makes it an added security risk. Why make it easier for the thieves to see what coins they could possibly steal? It's a reality.
mark
That excuse doesn't make sense. Like the average person at a coin show doesn't already have a pretty good idea which are the more expensive coins under the display case. And they don't need to price every single coin but perhaps the more common ones that would appeal to the most collectors. I think it's laziness that some dealers don't put prices on their coins. But they just lose sales because it just places an additional barrier for selling a coin. It's often not worth the hassle to have to engage with a dealer to know the prices for many coins when as a collector, I'd like to just look and quickly compare prices with the coins to see which ones interest me the most. No prices listed just adds hassle to the looking and 99 times out of 100, I'll just move on to the next table. If prices are listed, I'll spend a lot of time looking.
That excuse doesn't make sense to you perhaps. Thieves come in all shapes in sizes and I'm pretty sure they all aren't coin collectors or are coin savvy. Marking slabs with prices makes non coin collecting thieves smarter. Will they target a coin marked $300 in a dealers case to steal or one marked $3000? Will they follow home a dealer with a case full of $10,000 coins or one with a case full of $100 coins? I don't think most dealers are lazy and I actually think that if you can't take the time to ask what a coin costs borders on the same.
mark
A single dealer may have hundreds of coins. Multiply that by many dealers depending upon the size of the coin show. Am I lazy because I won't have every dealer run through his coins and tell me prices? No. I'll simply spend more of my time with the dealers who mark their prices. As a collector in a room with dozens or hundreds of dealers, I'll simply choose to spend the bulk of my time with dealers who make the shopping process easier by labeling their prices.
For your reasoning that marking prices on coins makes a dealer a greater target for a theft, that doesn't make sense. Thieves are more about opportunity than hunting out which coins have the highest prices. Or a thief may be attracted more to a dealer with more coins than a dealer with fewer coins. Whether a dealer has prices marked or not, I doubt whether that creates much of a significant additional theft risk. And if a dealer has your concerns, he just doesn't mark the prices on his most expensive coins.
When I'm suggesting that dealers put prices on their coins, I'm referring to the lower price, common coins that appeal more to the greater collecting public and not the expensive luxury coins that are one of a kind coins. For example, if I want to buy a common date PCGS MS63 Morgan Dollar, a coin that probably the majority of dealers are selling, it shouldn't be too much to expect a price to be noted with the coin. I'll just go to the dealers with the prices marked for an easier buying process.
Can you guys PLEASE put on hold your comments that don't apply to the subject of this particular thread. You've beaten the dealer pricing coins to death and it doesn't have anything to do with this thread. Please create your own thread on that subject if you wish to pursue it. Thank you.
I agree with the comments on the length of the show and pre-show.
I think it may be time to revamp how the ANA does their marketing for shows. I think we are told they spend $$ on marketing but when talking to locals it never seems to hit them. I am not familiar with what they do for marketing but it looks like that needs to be looked at to get more locals in and find a way to get the public in and potentially bring in some fresh material and buyers.
I do not like the idea of Sunday's for shows that some threw out as an option.
It may be time to reinvent how some of the show is done. Shows seem to be getting weaker in general as their is a shift to online sales and auctions. I don't have the answer as to how to overcome this issue but it is something that has to get looked at for the future of the shows.
Can you guys PLEASE put on hold your comments that don't apply to the subject of this particular thread. You've beaten the dealer pricing coins to death and it doesn't have anything to do with this thread. Please create your own thread on that subject if you wish to pursue it. Thank you.
My bad......sorry Pl
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Originally posted by: blu62vette I agree with the comments on the length of the show and pre-show.
I think it may be time to revamp how the ANA does their marketing for shows. I think we are told they spend $$ on marketing but when talking to locals it never seems to hit them. I am not familiar with what they do for marketing but it looks like that needs to be looked at to get more locals in and find a way to get the public in and potentially bring in some fresh material and buyers.
I do not like the idea of Sunday's for shows that some threw out as an option.
It may be time to reinvent how some of the show is done. Shows seem to be getting weaker in general as their is a shift to online sales and auctions. I don't have the answer as to how to overcome this issue but it is something that has to get looked at for the future of the shows.
The ANA convention marketing ingenuity consists of cheesy TV commercials that come on during the 11pm local news. The commercials mostly cater to the blue-hair, above 70 folks. The ads themselves make those car dealership commercials that air at 2am look like Madison Avenue productions.
If the ANA insists on advertising on TV at the least they should consider producing a commercial that doesn't make people under the age of 70 laugh or shake their head whenever it airs.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Originally posted by: Boosibri Seriously, get a procurement professional to negotiate the convention center deals. It will pay off and eliminate many of the perceived barriers
We use one of the largest convention services companies in the country to obtain bids for shows.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
Originally posted by: Dennis88 -Salt Lake City, UT. Airport is a major hub for Delta, making flights in a breeze if you're not too loyal to an airline. Nice weather in the summer (generally) and has coin history. -Charlotte, NC. Same reasons as above (except for Delta, but it does have a large airport with decent connections)
North Carolina taxes numismatic purchases -- so Charlotte is pretty much a no-go.
Salt Lake City has been looked into, but past conventions there have not drawn very well attendance wise.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
I'd like to piggyback on a couple things. Totally agree that the current show length is excessive. A preshow makes it ponderous for many dealers, and if it's held in a location with onerous taxation issues...well, that makes it a dealbreaker-at least for us. I like Chicago and STL- inexplicably some here hate both, particularly the former-but they're both centrally located, taxation-friendly if you will, and easily capable of holding larger shows. As far as exhibits go- I love them, they're cool, but they take up a lot of square feet and could be pared down without adversely affecting the show IMO. Perhaps changing limits on how many showcase per exhibit, etc.
Seriously, get a procurement professional to negotiate the convention center deals. It will pay off and eliminate many of the perceived barriers
Interesting comment by Boosbri.
I didn't know such negotiators exist. Makes sense though, as there is a need.
Sometimes you have to spend a little money to save a lot more.
Serious question -- has someone looked into what such a consultant can do for the ANA?
Dave Wnuck. Redbook contributor; long time PNG Member; listed on the PCGS Board of Experts. PM me with your email address to receive my e-newsletter, and visit DaveWcoins.com Find me on eBay at davewcoins
Seriously, get a procurement professional to negotiate the convention center deals. It will pay off and eliminate many of the perceived barriers
Interesting comment by Boosbri.
I didn't know such negotiators exist. Makes sense though, as there is a need.
Sometimes you have to spend a little money to save a lot more.
Serious question -- has someone looked into what such a consultant can do for the ANA?
What about a trade association for smaller trade associations? Pool your collective conventions into an annual bid package. One medium sized convention might not entice a venue to bid, but bring three friends...?
I honestly think the ANA needs someone from the private sector with experience running a corporation to drive a real change program and unlock value.
First off I am going to beat a dead horse in saying that the show is too long. One thought is to have the show open late, say 9 PM to allow people who work during the week to get in before everyone leaves on Saturday morning. During that evening, there would be no auctions and maybe some events for children put on by dealer volunteers. I would be more than willing to give up a night and make a presentation like I do at a school every year. I would even go so far as to hire some people and have a babysitting room for the kids who are too small to appreciate a YN event.
On another note, something Greg said is very disturbing. If the show is at break even levels now, what happens in a few years when attendance of dealers drops 10-20% as people retire or pass away. What happens when it gets too expensive for someone to reasonably take a table and just walks. I think the ANA needs to look long and hard at the realities of the standards they have set (room size etc...) and see if they are sustainable.
It's a little late for this info but I thought it was interesting. The ANA statement of activities for FY 2014 showed the cost for conventions to be $1,451,192. Revenues were not broken out in the same format but the approved budget for the same period showed convention revenue estimated to be $1,928,500.
Earlier in the thread someone asked if FUN made money and the answer I believe is absolutely but I haven't found the numbers yet. Still looking.
Comments
For example, let's say that the exhibit space required by the ANA is 20% of the floor space. If a 200,000 contiguous square foot venue is required for a single floor then this breaks down to 160,000 square feet for the bourse and 40,000 square feet for the exhibits, give or take some extra, miscellaneous space. However, if you can split the exhibits off from the bourse then the ANA requirement of a venue might still be approximately 200,000 square feet, but venues and cities that have two floors (160,000 square feet and 40,000 square feet) could participate in the bid process, if there is local interest.
Unfortunately, situations like that are strongly disliked and not as practical as you'd think.
First of all, that would require additional security in a separate location. Realize that the ANA pays -- depending on the city -- up to $80k just to provide security at our WFoM. We really don't want to cause that to go any higher if not necessary.
Second, the exhibitors don't like to have their exhibits segregated from the main hall. Additionally, attendance in the exhibit area drops significantly when it not located on the main hall.
The biggest problem that we face is the value we represent to a convention center.. not the difference between finding a 160k sqft hall vs. a 200k sqft one.
Greg
What will end up happening will be that some/many dealers won't stay for the whole show. Thus the collectors who spend their hard earned money (and vacation days) to come will see maybe 70% of the dealers instead of the full 100% that they are fully entitled to see.
I agree that dealers leaving early is a problem at most major shows, but it really shouldn't happen at the ANA shows. As a dealer one thing I would like the ANA to do is either enforce punishment against those table holders who pack up early and/or reward those of us who do stay until the very end of the show.
Sure, I understand that some dealers can't stay until the very end and there are plenty of excuses as to why they can't stay... whatever... but those dealers who are known to regularly leave early should maybe be punished by getting tables in the back of their sections at the next show (lose most or all of their stars for the table draw), thereby providing a big incentive to have dealers stay and giving a decent reward to those who actually do stay until the end.
Alternatively, I bet you'd have more dealers staying until the end if all table holders had to pay a $1000 or so deposit in addition to the normal bourse fee that is only refunded in person at the end of the show if the dealers are still in attendance. Of course, that would never happen, but it would certainly improve the shows.
I agree with the problem on dealers leaving early. Move such dealers to areas where when they do leave, they don't leave a gawking empty table(s)/space in the middle of the bourse setup/floor.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I for one would like to see dealers post the price of a coin on the front of the coin where you can see it.
I absolutely agree. It's a waste of time on my part as a potential buyer to see a whole display of PCGS coins and not have any visible prices. Am I supposed to spend time asking what each coin's price is? When I see a dealer with no prices listed, I just move on to the next table.
Putting the price on the front of the slab makes it an added security risk. Why make it easier for the thieves to see what coins they could possibly steal? It's a reality.
mark
That excuse doesn't make sense. Like the average person at a coin show doesn't already have a pretty good idea which are the more expensive coins under the display case. And they don't need to price every single coin but perhaps the more common ones that would appeal to the most collectors. I think it's laziness that some dealers don't put prices on their coins. But they just lose sales because it just places an additional barrier for selling a coin. It's often not worth the hassle to have to engage with a dealer to know the prices for many coins when as a collector, I'd like to just look and quickly compare prices with the coins to see which ones interest me the most. No prices listed just adds hassle to the looking and 99 times out of 100, I'll just move on to the next table. If prices are listed, I'll spend a lot of time looking.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Since it has been many years since a major ANA show in Seattle (since before I got back into collecting, I do believe, so I don't know the dates), do you give the Convention Center your estimate based on previous year(s) at other locations? Obviously, you can't do a comparison from a Seattle show.
The room night & food / beverage numbers are fairly consistent from city to city and year to year.
The problem is two-fold:
1) Only hotel rooms booked out of the official ANA block are counted.
For example, in Anaheim next year, this is the Hilton Anaheim. Any rooms booked at any other hotel do not count. If someone is a Marriott person and stay there.. doesn't count. If someone doesn't want to pay the negotiated price and stays at Motel 6.. doesn't count.
We have to be conservative in the hotel night block we ask for because we guarantee that 80% of that number will be filled. If not, we have to pay the hotel ourselves.
2) The Food & Beverage spending is at the convention center.
Leasing convention center halls is not a very high margin activity for the center... they make their money charging $59 for a gallon of coffee and $27 for a box lunch. (These are actual Anaheim Convention Center prices)
The ANA does not have a bunch of lavish dinners like a medical convention may have... having 250 people attending a dinner each night at $40-50 a head.
As a result, the convention center looks at the square footage we require (quite significant!) vs. the ancillary revenue we provide (which isn't much).
When we ask for bids, we provide our historical figures and the convention center provides a bid or they don't. They don't say "Well, another 250 hotel nights and you have a deal."
Greg
Greg, I don't know if this will help but for the 1st time in over 15 years of doing Baltimore Whitman is asking dealers to report their room nights if they did not book their room in the Whitman room blocks. Perhaps the ANA could do something along these lines? In 20 years of attending shows I believe I have only booked through a show room block once or twice.
If you book at one of our convention hotels, we do have a way to track and get credit for that. However, many attendees are loyal to a specific brand or will simply book whatever is cheapest (or use Priceline). If they don't book one of the convention hotels, there's no way we can get credit for it.
Greg
I have a specific question for the DEALERS that I'd like to pose for our committee's discussion: WHAT IS YOUR PREFERRED CITY TO HOLD AN ANA SHOW, AND WHAT ARE YOUR REASONS?
I know it doesn't seem very popular with some, but I really liked having the show in Chicago. Centrally located for folks from both coasts (dealers and customers). Lots of flights in and out, lots of hotels. Big city with lots to do for those who need a day away from the show. The Chicago shows seemed very well attended too.
Of course, I think the ANA shows should move around to help reach customers who don't travel or don't travel as far. And moving the shows around probably helps with the ANA's mission to educate too. But Chicago would be a great city that the ANA should go back to every other year or every couple of years.
And of course anything in Southern California is great
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Seriously, get a procurement professional to negotiate the convention center deals. It will pay off and eliminate many of the perceived barriers
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I am not a dealer but Chicago has my first vote. Close to the airport and a good selection of hotels.
I for one would like to see dealers post the price of a coin on the front of the coin where you can see it.
I absolutely agree. It's a waste of time on my part as a potential buyer to see a whole display of PCGS coins and not have any visible prices. Am I supposed to spend time asking what each coin's price is? When I see a dealer with no prices listed, I just move on to the next table.
Putting the price on the front of the slab makes it an added security risk. Why make it easier for the thieves to see what coins they could possibly steal? It's a reality.
mark
That excuse doesn't make sense. Like the average person at a coin show doesn't already have a pretty good idea which are the more expensive coins under the display case. And they don't need to price every single coin but perhaps the more common ones that would appeal to the most collectors. I think it's laziness that some dealers don't put prices on their coins. But they just lose sales because it just places an additional barrier for selling a coin. It's often not worth the hassle to have to engage with a dealer to know the prices for many coins when as a collector, I'd like to just look and quickly compare prices with the coins to see which ones interest me the most. No prices listed just adds hassle to the looking and 99 times out of 100, I'll just move on to the next table. If prices are listed, I'll spend a lot of time looking.
That excuse doesn't make sense to you perhaps. Thieves come in all shapes in sizes and I'm pretty sure they all aren't coin collectors or are coin savvy. Marking slabs with prices makes non coin collecting thieves smarter. Will they target a coin marked $300 in a dealers case to steal or one marked $3000? Will they follow home a dealer with a case full of $10,000 coins or one with a case full of $100 coins? I don't think most dealers are lazy and I actually think that if you can't take the time to ask what a coin costs borders on the same.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
2) Show location: Chicago has had it's fair share of shows lately, and I think should be put on hold for awhile. CA is expensive for out-of-state dealers. MN is out of the question because of the bullion law. HI and AK are too far away for many (but would make it a nice vacation destination). That leaves plenty of major cities with good transportation options. Two that I could see as good options:
-Salt Lake City, UT. Airport is a major hub for Delta, making flights in a breeze if you're not too loyal to an airline. Nice weather in the summer (generally) and has coin history.
-Charlotte, NC. Same reasons as above (except for Delta, but it does have a large airport with decent connections)
3) Keep table prices reasonable, and unlike the last ANA show, where tables up front where sold at a discount the week prior to the show allot any empty tables in the premium section to dealers in the back of the room.
Dennis
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I for one would like to see dealers post the price of a coin on the front of the coin where you can see it.
I absolutely agree. It's a waste of time on my part as a potential buyer to see a whole display of PCGS coins and not have any visible prices. Am I supposed to spend time asking what each coin's price is? When I see a dealer with no prices listed, I just move on to the next table.
Putting the price on the front of the slab makes it an added security risk. Why make it easier for the thieves to see what coins they could possibly steal? It's a reality.
mark
That excuse doesn't make sense. Like the average person at a coin show doesn't already have a pretty good idea which are the more expensive coins under the display case. And they don't need to price every single coin but perhaps the more common ones that would appeal to the most collectors. I think it's laziness that some dealers don't put prices on their coins. But they just lose sales because it just places an additional barrier for selling a coin. It's often not worth the hassle to have to engage with a dealer to know the prices for many coins when as a collector, I'd like to just look and quickly compare prices with the coins to see which ones interest me the most. No prices listed just adds hassle to the looking and 99 times out of 100, I'll just move on to the next table. If prices are listed, I'll spend a lot of time looking.
That excuse doesn't make sense to you perhaps. Thieves come in all shapes in sizes and I'm pretty sure they all aren't coin collectors or are coin savvy. Marking slabs with prices makes non coin collecting thieves smarter. Will they target a coin marked $300 in a dealers case to steal or one marked $3000? Will they follow home a dealer with a case full of $10,000 coins or one with a case full of $100 coins? I don't think most dealers are lazy and I actually think that if you can't take the time to ask what a coin costs borders on the same.
mark
A single dealer may have hundreds of coins. Multiply that by many dealers depending upon the size of the coin show. Am I lazy because I won't have every dealer run through his coins and tell me prices? No. I'll simply spend more of my time with the dealers who mark their prices. As a collector in a room with dozens or hundreds of dealers, I'll simply choose to spend the bulk of my time with dealers who make the shopping process easier by labeling their prices.
For your reasoning that marking prices on coins makes a dealer a greater target for a theft, that doesn't make sense. Thieves are more about opportunity than hunting out which coins have the highest prices. Or a thief may be attracted more to a dealer with more coins than a dealer with fewer coins. Whether a dealer has prices marked or not, I doubt whether that creates much of a significant additional theft risk. And if a dealer has your concerns, he just doesn't mark the prices on his most expensive coins.
When I'm suggesting that dealers put prices on their coins, I'm referring to the lower price, common coins that appeal more to the greater collecting public and not the expensive luxury coins that are one of a kind coins. For example, if I want to buy a common date PCGS MS63 Morgan Dollar, a coin that probably the majority of dealers are selling, it shouldn't be too much to expect a price to be noted with the coin. I'll just go to the dealers with the prices marked for an easier buying process.
The Penny Lady®
I think it may be time to revamp how the ANA does their marketing for shows. I think we are told they spend $$ on marketing but when talking to locals it never seems to hit them. I am not familiar with what they do for marketing but it looks like that needs to be looked at to get more locals in and find a way to get the public in and potentially bring in some fresh material and buyers.
I do not like the idea of Sunday's for shows that some threw out as an option.
It may be time to reinvent how some of the show is done. Shows seem to be getting weaker in general as their is a shift to online sales and auctions. I don't have the answer as to how to overcome this issue but it is something that has to get looked at for the future of the shows.
Can you guys PLEASE put on hold your comments that don't apply to the subject of this particular thread. You've beaten the dealer pricing coins to death and it doesn't have anything to do with this thread. Please create your own thread on that subject if you wish to pursue it. Thank you.
My bad......sorry Pl
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
I agree with the comments on the length of the show and pre-show.
I think it may be time to revamp how the ANA does their marketing for shows. I think we are told they spend $$ on marketing but when talking to locals it never seems to hit them. I am not familiar with what they do for marketing but it looks like that needs to be looked at to get more locals in and find a way to get the public in and potentially bring in some fresh material and buyers.
I do not like the idea of Sunday's for shows that some threw out as an option.
It may be time to reinvent how some of the show is done. Shows seem to be getting weaker in general as their is a shift to online sales and auctions. I don't have the answer as to how to overcome this issue but it is something that has to get looked at for the future of the shows.
The ANA convention marketing ingenuity consists of cheesy TV commercials that come on during the 11pm local news. The commercials mostly cater to the blue-hair, above 70 folks. The ads themselves make those car dealership commercials that air at 2am look like Madison Avenue productions.
If the ANA insists on advertising on TV at the least they should consider producing a commercial that doesn't make people under the age of 70 laugh or shake their head whenever it airs.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Seriously, get a procurement professional to negotiate the convention center deals. It will pay off and eliminate many of the perceived barriers
We use one of the largest convention services companies in the country to obtain bids for shows.
Greg
-Salt Lake City, UT. Airport is a major hub for Delta, making flights in a breeze if you're not too loyal to an airline. Nice weather in the summer (generally) and has coin history.
-Charlotte, NC. Same reasons as above (except for Delta, but it does have a large airport with decent connections)
North Carolina taxes numismatic purchases -- so Charlotte is pretty much a no-go.
Salt Lake City has been looked into, but past conventions there have not drawn very well attendance wise.
Greg
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
This thread is close to the tipping point.
Seriously, get a procurement professional to negotiate the convention center deals. It will pay off and eliminate many of the perceived barriers
Interesting comment by Boosbri.
I didn't know such negotiators exist. Makes sense though, as there is a need.
Sometimes you have to spend a little money to save a lot more.
Serious question -- has someone looked into what such a consultant can do for the ANA?
This thread is close to the tipping point.
Seriously, get a procurement professional to negotiate the convention center deals. It will pay off and eliminate many of the perceived barriers
Interesting comment by Boosbri.
I didn't know such negotiators exist. Makes sense though, as there is a need.
Sometimes you have to spend a little money to save a lot more.
Serious question -- has someone looked into what such a consultant can do for the ANA?
What about a trade association for smaller trade associations? Pool your collective conventions into an annual bid package. One medium sized convention might not entice a venue to bid, but bring three friends...?
I honestly think the ANA needs someone from the private sector with experience running a corporation to drive a real change program and unlock value.
Latin American Collection
In 2007 the mid winter was held there and I thought it was a very good show.
On another note, something Greg said is very disturbing. If the show is at break even levels now, what happens in a few years when attendance of dealers drops 10-20% as people retire or pass away. What happens when it gets too expensive for someone to reasonably take a table and just walks. I think the ANA needs to look long and hard at the realities of the standards they have set (room size etc...) and see if they are sustainable.
The ANA statement of activities for FY 2014 showed the cost for conventions to be $1,451,192. Revenues were not broken out in the same format but the approved budget for the same period showed convention revenue estimated to be $1,928,500.
Earlier in the thread someone asked if FUN made money and the answer I believe is absolutely but I haven't found the numbers yet. Still looking.