Here's a fun one... Check out this 1909 Indian cent - NEW rim photos added

Meltdown · September 21, 2015 5:00PM

I picked this up today. It's been in this holder since the 90's. I don't know where it was before then... I think I'm going to keep it right where it is.
It's got really pretty obverse toning...
But I am curious... will it grade? What's the grade? Can you even guess from these rookie photos of mine?
Clearly it's a proof right? The paper was in the capital plastic box with the coin.

I shot it through the plastic, sorry. Those are not obverse hairlines on the second obverse pic.

The black thing is a reflection

New Pics taken out of the holder - Does this determine proof or business strike?

lordmarcovan · September 21, 2015 5:02PM

I personally can't tell. Certainly it's prooflike, as indicated. But a real proof?

Dunno. I'll leave that to the experts. I would want a look at the edge to tell, but they can tell by other methods, I'm sure.

lordmarcovan · September 21, 2015 5:04PM

(Forum freeze caused delayed double post)

Treashunt · September 21, 2015 7:53PM

I'd also go PL, not clear enough to see a proof.

Still a fun pick up

ricko · September 21, 2015 8:33PM

Nice find.... while I would not say proof (from those picture), it is certainly a very nice specimen....Cheers, RickO

guitarwes · September 21, 2015 11:25PM

I'd have to say a PL BS from those pics. Nice one.

CoinZip · September 21, 2015 11:34PM

Look closely at the date and reverse 6 O'clock position....

lasvegasteddy · September 21, 2015 11:45PM

<<< in the "PL" crowd too

is that graffiti on the reverse at 6 o clock?
it looks like a number 9 is scratched on there

joebb21 · September 21, 2015 11:51PM

whizzed? Im not seeing proof from these pics

LanceNewmanOCC · September 22, 2015 12:15AM

.
ok, what tha heck

in one reverse image, the pseudo 9 is next to the ribbon tip and in the other it is in the middle? perhaps it is something on the holder casting a shadow?

looks like a proof. even a couple partial rim shots look proof-ish.

lkeigwin · September 22, 2015 12:31AM

It would help if the coin were removed from the holder and then photographed, both sides. Viewing through plastic and with the hidden rims isn't good enough.

My guess is it's not a proof. And that's a stray fiber on the lower reverse.
Lance.

asheland · September 22, 2015 12:49AM

Why are the nines different?

MonsterCoinz · September 22, 2015 1:47AM

Looks PR64/65 BN to me. Would make a nice TrueView..

LanceNewmanOCC · September 22, 2015 1:53AM

<< Why are the nines different?

>>

the pseudo 9 on the rev.

if you read the thread, it makes more sense.

.

Unknown · September 22, 2015 1:56AM

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winky · September 22, 2015 3:04AM

Nice Indian.

Wabbit2313 · September 22, 2015 4:43AM

It has the look of a proof. I hope that is not a cleaning in front of the forehead!

Meltdown · September 22, 2015 7:37AM

Thanks for all the replies. I posted it late last night in the holder, then got called into work first thing today. I will take it out and re-shoot it later and see if we can identify just what I've got here.
I think the reverse 6 is a curly hair or string reflection. I'll update this asap with better shots.

crazyhounddog · September 22, 2015 8:09AM

<< It would help if the coin were removed from the holder and then photographed, both sides. Viewing through plastic and with the hidden rims isn't good enough.

My guess is it's not a proof. And that's a stray fiber on the lower reverse.
Lance. >>

I'm with Lance on this one. I can't see the rims either and that alone makes it very tough to make the call.

asheland · September 23, 2015 12:42AM

Nice coin by the way!

Meltdown · September 23, 2015 2:30AM

New Pics taken out of the holder - Does this determine proof or business strike?

Meltdown · September 23, 2015 7:23AM

Double post...

oih82w8 · September 23, 2015 8:44AM

I think that the rims are not "squared off" enough for a proof. I have been wrong before.

Good looking coin!

cameonut2011 · September 23, 2015 8:45AM

I vote cleaned business strike...

Meltdown · September 23, 2015 8:53AM

<< I vote cleaned business strike... >>

Ouch. Anyone else?

clarkbar04 · September 23, 2015 8:54AM

Looks really nice to me, but I am far from an IHC expert.

illini420 · September 23, 2015 9:00AM

With that much detail, looks like a proof strike to me.

Christos · September 23, 2015 9:02AM

Hey meltdown have you PMd Rick Snow to ask him to take a look at your IHC? I would change your title to state Is this 1909 IHC a Proof or Business Strike? You will pull more people in to take a look at the coin. The rims look nice but I am not sure? Also could you get a little better focus and get a bit closer to the rim please? This would help things out a bit.

LanceNewmanOCC · September 23, 2015 9:18AM

.
are your light(s far from the coin/camera?

also, are it/they higher than the camera?

PALINDROME POST 11011
.

Meltdown · September 23, 2015 9:25AM

Those latest shots were with lights at 10 & 2 - probably 6" above the camera lens

Wabbit2313 · September 23, 2015 9:31AM

I would take some more detailed close up images. I can't tell anything from the small ones posted. Go close and then post those! I still wonder what all those hairlines are in the left field.

LanceNewmanOCC · September 23, 2015 9:42AM

<< Those latest shots were with lights at 10 & 2 - probably 6" above the camera lens >>

sounds like good position. how far from the camera? im guessing not far despite the coin appearing dark.
.

crazyhounddog · September 23, 2015 9:50AM

I'm afraid to say it looks cleaned to me. In the field in front of the Indian's face I see signs of cleaning, nor do I believe it's a proof.
I need to edit this to say I am in no way an Indian cent expert . I do buffalo nickel's and that's about as much as my little brain can take. I also have a terrible time with copper. I wish you all the luck in the world.

Wabbit2313 · September 23, 2015 9:52AM

I vote proof. I hope it is not cleaned. Did the seller have any graded coins at all? If yes, then that could spell trouble.

Christos · September 23, 2015 10:07AM

Here is a proof to compare to.

lordmarcovan · September 23, 2015 2:38PM

I'm leaning towards PL business strike. Your out-of-the-holder pictures didn't show the edge, so it's still hard to say.

It's a beauty, regardless.

lkeigwin · September 23, 2015 2:54PM

Better photos for sure. But still not definitive.

Looks like a business strike. The obverse hairlines are troubling.

I would submit it for grading and cross fingers.
Lance.

BustHalfBrian · September 23, 2015 3:40PM

I'm in the "proof" crowd

lasvegasteddy · September 23, 2015 5:42PM

sometimes i wished the mint had simply put a "PF" on proof strikings that had almost no change to their circulation strike coins
<<< can't say definitively

awesome example regardless

asheland · September 24, 2015 3:30AM

It does have the proof look.

ambro51 · September 27, 2015 10:32PM

Show an edge view. Submit it..... Or is the thought of "cleaned UNC details" just too revolting??

AUandAG · September 27, 2015 10:37PM

<< I vote cleaned business strike... >>

This

bob

Type2 · October 2, 2015 3:14PM

<< 

<< I vote cleaned business strike... >>

This

bob >>

"Cleaned UNC details" I'm in this boat as well but a nice coin.

ricko · October 3, 2015 12:26AM

Proof-like business strike.... those hairlines in front on the Indian worry me.... although not visible in all pictures....Cheers, RickO

Hydrant · October 6, 2015 6:03PM

Lovely.

Here's a fun one... Check out this 1909 Indian cent - NEW rim photos added

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