Why collectors drink, part Irish

clarkbar04 · September 22, 2015 9:19AM

I inquire about returning a coin as it looked good from the pics. The seller says he does not offer returns, but this is a fairly low buck item and is obviously not as described.

(FWIW, I drink because I like the taste, the biproduct is simply good fortune.)

Me:

"I just got this today and would like to return it. It has been cleaned/whizzed. Should I use ebay's return system? Anyway I just thought I would run it by you first."

Seller:

"Im trying to stay calm here, for one that coin was not cleaned. I don't sell cleaned or whizzed not even sure what that one means. That's evident by all the edges being slightly toned. If it was cleaned there would be no toning whatsoever. I Don't offer returns so I'd say go through eBay and I'll take it from there. And listen don't mistake this for being rude or combative its just frustrating to have such a difference of opinion."

Coin in question:

TwoSides2aCoin · September 22, 2015 9:23AM

I'm getting a cup of coffee. Call me if you need a designated driver.

SeattleSlammer · September 22, 2015 9:27AM

Well he's probably telling the truth when he says that he doesn't know what whizzed means.

lasvegasteddy · September 22, 2015 9:32AM

good lord
lol got to love the seller's opening..."i'm trying to stay calm here"

stman · September 22, 2015 9:37AM

I don't get why folks give a reason for a return unless they are asked for it. All it does is open it up for argument etc. I would just say not for me. You slam the guys coin you have to expect a negative reaction. Just my worthless opinion.

TwoSides2aCoin · September 22, 2015 9:44AM

That's a great point above , stman.

It's easiest to return the coin and let the seller know that it's being returned. A buyer doesn't need a reason to refuse, except that a deal is not acceptable to them.
The right of rescission, in contract law. Sellers do enter a binding contract with ebay and part of that contract covers "returns".

TopographicOceans · September 22, 2015 9:50AM

Please... Save The Stories, Just Take My Return!!!!!

clarkbar04 · September 22, 2015 9:52AM

As mentioned previously, Return policy:

Return policy details
Seller does not offer returns. You are covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee if you received an item that is not as described in the listing

I have to let them know the reason it does not match the description anyway, it is not like I could have just returned it on my own free will. I figured I would message him first so he doesn't get the nasty message from ebay to begin the process, as a courtesy.

stman · September 22, 2015 10:00AM

<< As mentioned previously, Return policy:

Return policy details
Seller does not offer returns. You are covered by the eBay Money Back Guarantee if you received an item that is not as described in the listing

I have to let them know the reason it does not match the description anyway, it is not like I could have just returned it on my own free will. I figured I would message him first so he doesn't get the nasty message from ebay to begin the process, as a courtesy. >>

Oh, OK. It looks like you asked the seller first in a subtle way and gave the reason. I just have learned it's much easier to say not for me. I understand you would have to tell ebay. But you asked him if you should go through ebay. Which to me means you might have been hoping seller would take care of it. By slamming the coin I wouldn't look for an exception to his no return. Anyway, hope it works out for you

stman · September 22, 2015 10:01AM

<< Please... Save The Stories, Just Take My Return!!!!! >>

Heh

CuKevin · September 22, 2015 10:13AM

<< Well he's probably telling the truth when he says that he doesn't know what whizzed means.

>>

No kidding

pcgs69 · September 22, 2015 10:33AM

I guess it comes down to price paid. If you paid $20 for it, then move on. But if you paid a big premium, it's worth pursuing a little bit.

amwldcoin · September 22, 2015 10:43AM

<< I don't get why folks give a reason for a return unless they are asked for it. All it does is open it up for argument etc. I would just say not for me. You slam the guys coin you have to expect a negative reaction. Just my worthless opinion. >>

With a no return policy then a reason should be stated. Absolutely file a not as described claim with ebay!

TigersFan2 · September 22, 2015 10:51AM

I've never understood why any seller states doesn't offer returns. That leaves the buyer with the only option to file a "not as described" with Ebay. If a seller offers returns, the chances increase that the buyer elects to pay the return shipping and there's a more agreeable communication.

Walkerguy21D · September 22, 2015 11:17AM

I really can't see evidence of whizzing in the photo provided....heavy hairlines from an abrasive or harsh cleaning, yes.

kaz · September 22, 2015 12:12PM

I agree; that coin has been scrubbed. Whizzing is done with a rotary tool creating a faux luster. You don't see long wispy lines like on the coin in the OP.

Pokermandude · September 22, 2015 12:41PM

Had I bought that coin going by that photo, I'd have expected to receive a cleaned coin.

mustangmanbob · September 22, 2015 12:48PM

I hope you keep the coin. At a minimum, you should pay the shipping both ways.

{Rant On}

It stated no returns.

Was this person a dealer? Does the average person understand what whizzed means? Did ask questions before bidding? Did you ask for more photos?

I checked a bunch of cars on ebay, none mentioned they were cleaned, but I would guess every car had been cleaned. To an average person, cleaning would not be a "significantly not as described" issue, but to the coin world, it is a crime against humanity.

There are even threads debating how much cleaning constitutes cleaning. If the "experts" don't agree, what chance does Joe Average have?

I read postings were "experts" try to "sneak" a (cleaned, AT, fill in the blank) coin past the PCGS graders, so the "experts" try to game the other "experts".

Others play the crack out game, trying, after 8 tries, to get it to go up a point.

I wish ebay had a REAL no returns policy "section" where, short of buying a Rolls Royce, and getting a lead slug, the deal stands.

Maybe EVERY coin should be examined under a Scanning Electron Microscope (happen to have access to 12 of them) and EVERY coin could be returned to the best of the best dealers with a NEGATIVE due to "significantly" not as described issues that were found.

I'm sorry, but it appears you bought a raw coin, from one of the 99% of the world, and are going to make him miserable on the deal.

{RANT OFF}

clarkbar04 · September 22, 2015 2:10PM

Sorry, that is the biggest bunch of bologna I have ever heard. I doubt the guy is a dealer, but I don't see why that should matter anyway.

Since you are going to use the use a silly car analogy on a coin board, consider that buying a coin with an undisclosed cleaning (which was advertised as AU+++) is (analytically) equivalent to buying a lightly used Ford truck which you later find out had been totaled and sustained frame damage, and has a branded title which was not disclosed at the time of sale. Is it still a Ford truck? You bet it is! and it looks all shiny and new because of that recent paint job. Is it worth the same as a the same slightly used clear titled Ford truck? no way in hell. But, you get the title in the mail and say, oh s*%t, what is this turd? Would you want to be stuck with this truck? I hope not, but based on your analogy, you are. (and no, carfax doesn't always help you here.)

If ebay is going to let people who don't know anything about coins sell them on their site, then they sure as hell better let me send it back if it turns out to be a dud. I have bought coins I thought were unc that turned out to be AU58s with no grade description given, and I just take my lumps and move on since there really isn't anything wrong with the coin, even if the seller does have a return policy. I feel bad for all the people buying this junk on ebay who don't know what they are looking at. Aren't all these "ebay fake" threads to keep uneducated buyers from ending up with fake coins? Why am I a bad guy because I bothered to get educated? I have seen people bid up an "1887-CC Morgan".

I can't even go out on a street corner and sell sandwiches to the public without first educating myself how to keep the public from getting sick. All I need to get going on ebay is a blurry smartphone pic and some of grandpa's old coins. Not many businesses like it where you don't have to know anything at all about the product you are selling.

Pokerman, thanks for the obvious tip, but that is my photo above.

vplite · September 22, 2015 2:22PM

Clarkbar04 handled this correctly. The coin is not as described and the seller should have voluntarily issued a refund.

ricko · September 22, 2015 10:50PM

I agree with clarkbar04... Cheers, RickO

Icollecteverything · September 22, 2015 11:00PM

I remember a seller on da bay who bragged that he had already cleaned all of his coins for sale....................so the buyer wouldn't have to.

PerryHall · September 22, 2015 11:05PM

<< Had I bought that coin going by that photo, I'd have expected to receive a cleaned coin. >>

Agree except that wasn't the pic the seller showed in his listing. This pic was taken by the buyer.

UncleJoe · September 22, 2015 11:50PM

<< 

<< Had I bought that coin going by that photo, I'd have expected to receive a cleaned coin. >>

Agree except that wasn't the pic the seller showed in his listing. This pic was taken by the buyer. >>

I would need to see the original listing to form an opinion.

Joe.

asheland · September 23, 2015 12:25AM

<< Well he's probably telling the truth when he says that he doesn't know what whizzed means.

>>

mustangmanbob · September 23, 2015 1:59AM

Can you post the ebay number so we can see the description and picture?

rhedden · September 23, 2015 7:12AM

Probably not worth the time and shipping costs to go through all that hassle and *maybe* get money back from eBay if they agree with you. Proceed directly to your local B&M coin shop, ask them what they're paying for junk silver dollars, take it, and go directly to the beer store with the proceeds. It's probably a good idea not to buy again from sellers who do not offer returns; much of their merchandise is going to be something that any knowledgeable collector would want to return.

BryceM · September 23, 2015 9:23AM

<< Probably not worth the time and shipping costs to go through all that hassle and *maybe* get money back from eBay if they agree with you. Proceed directly to your local B&M coin shop, ask them what they're paying for junk silver dollars, take it, and go directly to the beer store with the proceeds. It's probably a good idea not to buy again from sellers who do not offer returns; much of their merchandise is going to be something that any knowledgeable collector would want to return. >>

+1

The dealer's opening line is a bit over-the-top, but this is the best advice yet. I'm sure everyone's definition of what constitutes a SNAD is different, but to me SNAD = buying a Morgan and receiving an alarm clock. Everyone can tolerate a different level of loss, but in this case, if we're not talking about that much, I'd just liquidate it and take the hit. If you're unwilling to accept any risk when buying raw coins, it's probably best to avoid buying them without a return option.

Bochiman · September 23, 2015 10:25AM

So, buyer bids by what the seller's pics look like. No returns stated
Buyer receives the coin and says it is obvious the pics weren't accurate. Coin cleaned/whizzed/etc.
Buyer tries to inform seller and give him a heads-up and how he wants it handled (doesn't ask for money back to keep coin, replacement, etc)
Buyer mentions it here.
Buyer gets slammed by some folks for bringing it up to seller.

Now, if the buyer would have received the coin, and still had the same issues, but JUST done the SNAD with ebay, buyer would have likely (from previous responses in many various threads) been SLAMMED for going straight to the ebay process and not informing the seller first.

Guys, no cake and eating it too!!!

I think buyer was fine. I received some items from APMEX through ebay. Being unsure (since I don't sell there for a few years) if returning as SNAD would be a pain for them, I called them directly and let them know that I would be returning as, while I accepted they were raw and wasn't looking for a "grade", I wasn't willing to accept what certainly looked cleaned/whizzed.....(and, the fact that I may received something cleaned/whizzed was NOT noted in the auction). Apmex handled it 1st class, imho.

So, to the OP.....don't let the disgruntleds get to you....you may get blocked by the seller, since we know, even around here, people will block at the drop of a pin (like, if one asks a question even). Not worth keeping something drastically misrepresented.

Why collectors drink, part Irish

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