The infamous $69,000 Oregon Trail commemorative
rhedden
Posts: 6,632 ✭✭✭✭✭
Today's thread about the pretty toned 1879-S Morgan fetching $14k jogged my memory.
Back in 2004 when I joined this forum (calling all forum geezers!), there was a long-running series of threads about a pretty toned Oregon Trail commemorative in PCGS MS67 that sold for an astonishing $69,000 at Superior. Coin was priced around $2,000 for a generic example back then. Here are some links to some of the original threads:
One of the original threads
Another original thread
Follow-up thread from 2004
And another
I can't remember exactly what this Commem looked like, except that the toning was incredible. If anyone remembers, is it the same as the MS68+ example on Coin Facts?
CoinFacts PCGS MS68+
Anyone know if the person who paid $69k for it made out OK in the long run, sold it at a loss, or still has it?
Back in 2004 when I joined this forum (calling all forum geezers!), there was a long-running series of threads about a pretty toned Oregon Trail commemorative in PCGS MS67 that sold for an astonishing $69,000 at Superior. Coin was priced around $2,000 for a generic example back then. Here are some links to some of the original threads:
One of the original threads
Another original thread
Follow-up thread from 2004
And another
I can't remember exactly what this Commem looked like, except that the toning was incredible. If anyone remembers, is it the same as the MS68+ example on Coin Facts?
CoinFacts PCGS MS68+
Anyone know if the person who paid $69k for it made out OK in the long run, sold it at a loss, or still has it?
1
Comments
http://www.pcgs.com/setregistry/alltimeset.aspx?s=14720
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<< <i>If NVU is right, this is the coin in question.
Is this confirmed as the $69k Oregon?
Joseph J. Singleton - First Superintendent of the U.S. Branch Mint in Dahlonega Georgia
Findley Ridge Collection
About Findley Ridge
Well, just Love coins, period.
I wonder what other pieces are in that fellows collection.
<< <i>Isn't this coin known as "The Last Word?" >>
Only to RickO
And if the colors are still getting darker, that indicates to me that this piece is AT.
<< <i>If the last True Vien is a true indicator of how the coin looks now as opposed to how it looked a few years ago, I'd be concerned about owning this one. If the colors really are getting darker, they might just keep going until parts of the coin turns black. If that happens you will be down almost $69,000.
And if the colors are still getting darker, that indicates to me that this piece is AT. >>
That's an interesting point.
Andrew Blinkiewicz-Heritage
Oh wait! Missed the chunk out of the leg. Spend it.
The featured coin is extraordinary. I would love to see it in hand.
U.S. Type Set
<< <i>Isn't this coin known as "The Last Word?" >>
Not sure which one but monsterman's 33-D can rival this coin for the title.
Click on this link to see my ebay listings.
had been a bidder, maybe even the underbidder.
<< <i>I hate to crap on someone's really expensive coin, but my first impression was artificial toning. >>
I don't necessarily think it's AT, but it's not really calling my name from those photos. In hand,
it could well be a different story.
<< <i>I saved these images from the original thread. My file date shows April 3 2004. The new images make it look a bit more mellow.
I've gotta say it is extremely beautiful, no question about that. I think I would have bought something a bit more outstanding for the money spent.
That coin is SWEET!
From Larry:
Hopefully i can clear up the many questions about this coin since I probably know it better than anyone, and i get to see it on a regular basis.
I first saw this coin in Mike DeFalco’s office as a raw coin in or around 1984. Mike said he wanted me to see the most amazing commem he had ever seen nor handled. I would have killed for it but unfortunately it was already spoken for. As a side note, Mike had a very young employee then—some kid named Miles Standish. Gee, I wonder what ever happened to him? :-)
I can tell you all without hesitation, that the coin looks today exactly as it did then and as it did when it made headlines in 2004. The colors have not changed a bit, and the coin is no darker. The differences in photos and the various TrueViews are purely due to lighting. The earlier TrueView was slightly darker than the actual coin. The most recent one does a better job of capturing the coins vibrance and bold colors. That is why I recommended to the owner that he have the coin re-TrueViewed again. There is no darkening, and any coin that has remained the same since 1984 would definitely be considered stable. I have no concern about the legitimacy of the toning, nor do I think it will look any different 50 years from now.
That coin stuck in my memory from 1984 until it reappeared in 2004. In the interim, Mike DeFalco and I discussed it many times. Neither of us made secret our desire to own it if it ever came back on the market. When it did in 2004, I was building the San Diego Collection and I wanted it for that collector. I convinced him to allow me to bid up to $35,000, an astronomical number for a coin in a 1987 rattler MS-67 holder. I thought surely I would come home with it.
When the lot opened there were at least a dozen hands in the air. When it reached $30,000 there were still at least six or seven bidders to my dismay, and the room was really buzzing. I knew $35,00 wasn’t going to prevail, so I immediately upped my limit in my head to $42,000.
Ar $40,000 there were still at least five bidders, me, Laurie, David Schweitz, Mike Defalco and someone else. I made my $$42,000 bid and was immediately outbid. Laurie dropped a little later, and as the bidding reached into the $50’s it came down to a final and lengthy shootout between David and Mike. The room was going crazy, urging both to keep going and applauding each new higher level. There were a lot of gasps. David finally won and Mike was very disappointed.
I came to own the coin through the purchase of the Schweitz Collection in late 2005, as it was one of the centerpiece coins of the set. I then later resold the set intact, with the Oregon included, to the J&L Collection, where the coin continues to reside. Since then, David and i have continued to help them improve their collection, and it can be viewed in the PCGS Registry. Interestingly, I just spoke to the owners at the PCGS Member’s Only Show last week, where they told me that the Oregon is one of two commems in their fabulous collection that will never be sold during their lifetimes. So if anyone out there wants to own this coin, my suggestion is—get to know their kids.
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
Heh. Can't blame them, looks stunning. What's the other?? >>
The 1879-s Morgan in the other thread.
The true-views might look very different as that was when Phil had just switched from his old Nikon rig to a newer Canon.
<< <i>Larry Shepherd asked if I would post this for him........mark
From Larry:
Hopefully i can clear up the many questions about this coin since I probably know it better than anyone, and i get to see it on a regular basis.
I first saw this coin in Mike DeFalco’s office as a raw coin in or around 1984. Mike said he wanted me to see the most amazing commem he had ever seen nor handled. I would have killed for it but unfortunately it was already spoken for. As a side note, Mike had a very young employee then—some kid named Miles Standish. Gee, I wonder what ever happened to him? :-)
I can tell you all without hesitation, that the coin looks today exactly as it did then and as it did when it made headlines in 2004. The colors have not changed a bit, and the coin is no darker. The differences in photos and the various TrueViews are purely due to lighting. The earlier TrueView was slightly darker than the actual coin. The most recent one does a better job of capturing the coins vibrance and bold colors. That is why I recommended to the owner that he have the coin re-TrueViewed again. There is no darkening, and any coin that has remained the same since 1984 would definitely be considered stable. I have no concern about the legitimacy of the toning, nor do I think it will look any different 50 years from now.
That coin stuck in my memory from 1984 until it reappeared in 2004. In the interim, Mike DeFalco and I discussed it many times. Neither of us made secret our desire to own it if it ever came back on the market. When it did in 2004, I was building the San Diego Collection and I wanted it for that collector. I convinced him to allow me to bid up to $35,000, an astronomical number for a coin in a 1987 rattler MS-67 holder. I thought surely I would come home with it.
When the lot opened there were at least a dozen hands in the air. When it reached $30,000 there were still at least six or seven bidders to my dismay, and the room was really buzzing. I knew $35,00 wasn’t going to prevail, so I immediately upped my limit in my head to $42,000.
Ar $40,000 there were still at least five bidders, me, Laurie, David Schweitz, Mike Defalco and someone else. I made my $$42,000 bid and was immediately outbid. Laurie dropped a little later, and as the bidding reached into the $50’s it came down to a final and lengthy shootout between David and Mike. The room was going crazy, urging both to keep going and applauding each new higher level. There were a lot of gasps. David finally won and Mike was very disappointed.
I came to own the coin through the purchase of the Schweitz Collection in late 2005, as it was one of the centerpiece coins of the set. I then later resold the set intact, with the Oregon included, to the J&L Collection, where the coin continues to reside. Since then, David and i have continued to help them improve their collection, and it can be viewed in the PCGS Registry. Interestingly, I just spoke to the owners at the PCGS Member’s Only Show last week, where they told me that the Oregon is one of two commems in their fabulous collection that will never be sold during their lifetimes. So if anyone out there wants to own this coin, my suggestion is—get to know their kids. >>
Great post and first hand knowledge of the coin. Glad to hear it's a permanent centerpiece of the J&L Collection.
FWIW, I'd love to see Brandon take a photo of this coin given his toner photos. I think it would be nice for famous coins to have photos taken by multiple photogs, e.g. Brandon, Mark, Phil, Robecs, Todd, etc. (in alphabetical order).
<< <i>Maybe the 33 D is The Last Word?? >>
Super thread!
Toned coins are in their own seperate world.
They are like works of art. Unique.
If you're rich and appreciate it as art, then the money doesn't really factor in so much.
Well, just Love coins, period.
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Big price for a great coin!
<< <i>I'd love to see the two side-by-side....
Nice 33D really like the reverse
<< <i>I recall when Dave (MS68 here on the forum) bought that coin - thanks for the flashback.
Big price for a great coin! >>
I think it would sell for more now.much more.
To address seem other comments. The color has not changed in the past 30 years. Different camera, lighting etc etc etc
mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
<< <i>
<< <i>I recall when Dave (MS68 here on the forum) bought that coin - thanks for the flashback.
Big price for a great coin! >>
I think it would sell for more now.much more.
To address seem other comments. The color has not changed in the past 30 years. Different camera, lighting etc etc etc
mark >>
But just for the record NT slabbed coins can continue to tone and do not have to be considered AT.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I recall when Dave (MS68 here on the forum) bought that coin - thanks for the flashback.
Big price for a great coin! >>
I think it would sell for more now.much more.
To address seem other comments. The color has not changed in the past 30 years. Different camera, lighting etc etc etc
mark >>
But just for the record NT slabbed coins can continue to tone and do not have to be considered AT. >>
This is true. However, in this case the coin has not continue to tone. It looks the same as it did raw pre stabbing. Anyways, I would be a likely suitor for this coin knowing it would sell for over 69.
Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Well, just Love coins, period.
I've always thought of it as the prettiest Oregon I've ever seen........maybe the prettiest commemorative.
Is there something in it's past that would lead collectors to think it deserves the infamous label?
Synonyms of infamous:
abominable, outrageous, shocking, shameful, disgraceful, dishonorable, discreditable, contemptible, unworthy, atrocious, nefarious, appalling, dreadful, terrible, heinous, egregious, detestable, despicable, loathsome, hateful, vile, unspeakable, unforgivable, iniquitous
- Bob -
MPL's - Lincolns of Color
Central Valley Roosevelts
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