<< <i>I'll take that sweet looking 9 all day over the 10.
That 10 is really an 8.5 in disguise.
I bet the consignor is very happy though right now with that 10's price. >>
I agree with you on all points. And just think, you could own a sweet Winfield and save thousands of dollars to add even more sweet cards to your collection.
<< <i>When the next bubble pops in this economy(it's just a matter of time), there are going to be a lot of people holding the bag on these modern high grade rookie cards that have exploded in price. Better them than me. >>
I agree with this, but even outside of just the general economy. I do believe if there is a bubble in sportscard collecting, it is most exaggerated in "10"s. This isn't sustainable.
If the flips are hidden or those two cards exact cards are sitting raw in a penny sleeve and top loader at a show at the National, everyone takes that 9 over the 10 at equal prices.
"Past performance does not guarantee future results"
<< <i>When the next bubble pops in this economy(it's just a matter of time), there are going to be a lot of people holding the bag on these modern high grade rookie cards that have exploded in price. Better them than me. >>
I agree with this, but even outside of just the general economy. I do believe if there is a bubble in sportscard collecting, it is most exaggerated in "10"s. This isn't sustainable.
If the flips are hidden or those two cards exact cards are sitting raw in a penny sleeve and top loader at a show at the National, everyone takes that 9 over the 10 at equal prices.
"Past performance does not guarantee future results" >>
Yes, indeed. Once the easy money dries up when the correction hits and the chickens come home to roost, the sports card market will not escape the wrath either.
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago. Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming.
<< <i>Haha I agree. The grade on the label tells the story at the end of the day. I keep on reading over the years how people post that their lower grade card is more eye appealing and thus better than the higher graded card. Just wishful thinking that they had the higher graded and more valuable card. >>
So in other words, buy the holder not the card >>
Actually if you can afford the 10 I recommend it. If you can't then buy the card not the holder. >>
PSA 10's have proven time and time again to perform extremely well when a set or segment gets hot. The PSA 10 Rickey Henderson is just a prime example. A PSA 10 five years ago was a $9,000 to perhaps $12,000 card. At the same time a PSA 9 was in the mid $200's. Today you can get a PSA 9 in some cases close to $300 yet the PSA 10 recently sold for $31,000.
You can't argue with the math. I have tons of the same cards because one has better centering or corners or no print dots etc. But from a true numbers standpoint the 10's win.
The Jerry Rice might be the best example. Go back to VCP in 2012 and on a percentage basis the 10 absolutely crushes the performance of the 9.
I have one card in particular that I like one of my PSA 9's better than my PSA 10. If I put both up on EBAY there is a zero percent chance the PSA 9 will sell for even close to what the PSA 10 does. >>
What Rickey Henderson sold for $31,000. I don't see it in VCP.
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago. Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes.
<< <i>Haha I agree. The grade on the label tells the story at the end of the day. I keep on reading over the years how people post that their lower grade card is more eye appealing and thus better than the higher graded card. Just wishful thinking that they had the higher graded and more valuable card. >>
So in other words, buy the holder not the card >>
Actually if you can afford the 10 I recommend it. If you can't then buy the card not the holder. >>
PSA 10's have proven time and time again to perform extremely well when a set or segment gets hot. The PSA 10 Rickey Henderson is just a prime example. A PSA 10 five years ago was a $9,000 to perhaps $12,000 card. At the same time a PSA 9 was in the mid $200's. Today you can get a PSA 9 in some cases close to $300 yet the PSA 10 recently sold for $31,000.
You can't argue with the math. I have tons of the same cards because one has better centering or corners or no print dots etc. But from a true numbers standpoint the 10's win.
The Jerry Rice might be the best example. Go back to VCP in 2012 and on a percentage basis the 10 absolutely crushes the performance of the 9.
I have one card in particular that I like one of my PSA 9's better than my PSA 10. If I put both up on EBAY there is a zero percent chance the PSA 9 will sell for even close to what the PSA 10 does. >>
What Rickey Henderson sold for $31,000. I don't see it in VCP. >>
<< <i>Haha I agree. The grade on the label tells the story at the end of the day. I keep on reading over the years how people post that their lower grade card is more eye appealing and thus better than the higher graded card. Just wishful thinking that they had the higher graded and more valuable card. >>
So in other words, buy the holder not the card >>
Actually if you can afford the 10 I recommend it. If you can't then buy the card not the holder. >>
PSA 10's have proven time and time again to perform extremely well when a set or segment gets hot. The PSA 10 Rickey Henderson is just a prime example. A PSA 10 five years ago was a $9,000 to perhaps $12,000 card. At the same time a PSA 9 was in the mid $200's. Today you can get a PSA 9 in some cases close to $300 yet the PSA 10 recently sold for $31,000.
You can't argue with the math. I have tons of the same cards because one has better centering or corners or no print dots etc. But from a true numbers standpoint the 10's win.
The Jerry Rice might be the best example. Go back to VCP in 2012 and on a percentage basis the 10 absolutely crushes the performance of the 9.
I have one card in particular that I like one of my PSA 9's better than my PSA 10. If I put both up on EBAY there is a zero percent chance the PSA 9 will sell for even close to what the PSA 10 does. >>
What Rickey Henderson sold for $31,000. I don't see it in VCP. >>
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago. Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards.
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago. Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat? What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years? And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too.
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen.
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen. >>
"Experts" LOL
And what about the supply of cards that continually erodes. Care to comment on that?
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago. Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat? What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years? And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too. >>
Economic experts are saying it. I believe they are more qualified to make these predictions than you or I.
What if PSA 10's drop in value over the next few years due to an economic crisis? Can you eat those cards to stay alive? What becomes a priority for people then?
I don't care what goes down as far as cards are concerned. I don't do cards as an investment. They are nothing but an enjoyable hobby to me.
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago. Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat? What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years? And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too. >>
Economic experts are saying it. I believe they are more qualified to make these predictions than you or I.
What if PSA 10's drop in value over the next few years due to an economic crisis? Can you eat those cards to stay alive? What becomes a priority for people then?
I don't care what goes down as far as cards are concerned. I don't do cards as an investment. They are nothing but an enjoyable hobby to me. >>
First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either.
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen. >>
"Experts" LOL
And what about the supply of cards that continually erodes. Care to comment on that? >>
There is no shortage of these products out there so far, and more and more of these cards will be submitted over time. You can also find most of these modern gem mint rookies up for auction yearly as they are passed like hot potatoes from auction house to auction house, then Ebay, and on down the line. If you watch the auctions, you may be surprised just how many of them are recycled from place to place. This latest Winfield is just one example of that.
Honestly, the modern 10 craze is for people who like to look at the label that says 10 more than anything. Even gem mint cards have slight flaws under close examination. So why pay insane amounts of money for them, when you can find cards just as nice in 9 holders for thousands of dollars less? I think more and more people are going to realize this over time.
<< <i>First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
You seem like a level headed person, and we agree on most things you just stated here.
<< <i>First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
You seem like a level headed person, and we agree on most things you just stated here. >>
He collects pictures of men in tight underwear. How could you trust someone like that?
<< <i>First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
You seem like a level headed person, and we agree on most things you just stated here. >>
He collects pictures of men in tight underwear. How could you trust someone like that? >>
<< <i>First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
You seem like a level headed person, and we agree on most things you just stated here. >>
He collects pictures of men in tight underwear. How could you trust someone like that? >>
LOL! I guess we're all a bunch of nuts in a hobby that I wouldn't trade for anything. Thanks guys for the fun conversations.
Thanks. Maybe it was the year before that there was a sale in the $3,400 range.
Either way. Here you go. Just a few months ago a copy went for $380. I see there is a recent sale closer to $500 and a few in the $450 range. That said there are sales in 2012 of PSA 9's at essentially the same price. One at $460 and another at $510. The PSA 10 sold in May and most likely lead to the higher selling prices after that point. That said the PSA 10 is nearly double the selling price today.
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen. >>
"Experts" LOL
And what about the supply of cards that continually erodes. Care to comment on that? >>
There is no shortage of these products out there so far, and more and more of these cards will be submitted over time. You can also find most of these modern gem mint rookies up for auction yearly as they are passed like hot potatoes from auction house to auction house, then Ebay, and on down the line. If you watch the auctions, you may be surprised just how many of them are recycled from place to place. This latest Winfield is just one example of that.
Honestly, the modern 10 craze is for people who like to look at the label that says 10 more than anything. Even gem mint cards have slight flaws under close examination. So why pay insane amounts of money for them, when you can find cards just as nice in 9 holders for thousands of dollars less? I think more and more people are going to realize this over time. >>
Which products are you referring to? If we're talking pre 1980s than yes there is a shortage, and it will just get "shorter" over time. You also need to look at things from a much wider perspective, at least when it comes to time. In the decades and centuries to follow many of these cards will be lost or destroyed. Fewer and fewer raw cards will be submitted to replace these relics and over time the population will only decrease.
Again, what do you refer to as "modern"? Also, IMO if you knew how to spot the difference between a 9 and 10 then you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. For those in the know, there is, most times, a quite evident difference between a pre 1980s 9 and a 10. Many times it has to do with centering (front AND back) and how clean the photos and borders are.
It's fine if you don't care about these qualities, there's nothing wrong with owning a 9, 8, raw or anything that you enjoy. But to say what you say about people who own 10s, well that just says to me that you don't really know how to spot one.
Thanks. Maybe it was the year before that there was a sale in the $3,400 range.
Either way. Here you go. Just a few months ago a copy went for $380. I see there is a recent sale closer to $500 and a few in the $450 range. That said there are sales in 2012 of PSA 9's at essentially the same price and one at $460. The card has really not advanced. That said the PSA 10 is nearly double the selling price.
I knew I was close on the price because when it moved up to $4,500 it was called over valued on this board. >>
It's the same old story, "over valued" when it's someone else's card ... end of the world when it's "their" card that doesn't sell for VCP. >>
There is no right way to collect but if profit is your primary motive in the past few years buying the highest graded copy has been the best move in most cases.
Clearly there are some collectors out there that can buy cards and re submit them and achieve higher grades but most do not have this skill or luck.
People can hate on the card all they want but the market is choosing not to listen and awarding the premium price because of PSA's opinion.
Maybe people are selling the over inflated stocks and buying physical assets? The card market is for sure on a rise right now. I just see it as people moving their money into a different area. The money is always somewhere. And Id rather have a physical property over a promise. And I get enjoyment from owning a rare sports collectable. It has a history and a story.
Cards still might be undervalued if you relate them to gold prices of 2001
In 2001 You could by a 1963 pete Rose Rookie PSA 8 for about 1250.00(at the time about 4 ounces of gold) And today it's about 3200(or 2.7 ounces of gold today)
2001 a 1979 OPC Gretzky was 1,000 in a PSA 8 (3.3 ounces of gold then) and now its about a 1750 in a PSA 8 ( 1.3 ounces of gold)
So should the Rose be worth 4,800 and the Gretzky be worth 4,000? Or is gold undervalued and cards overvalued?
<< <i>Which products are you referring to? If we're talking pre 1980s than yes there is a shortage, and it will just get "shorter" over time. You also need to look at things from a much wider perspective, at least when it comes to time. In the decades and centuries to follow many of these cards will be lost or destroyed. Fewer and fewer raw cards will be submitted to replace these relics and over time the population will only decrease.
Again, what do you refer to as "modern"? Also, IMO if you knew how to spot the difference between a 9 and 10 then you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. For those in the know, there is, most times, a quite evident difference between a pre 1980s 9 and a 10. Many times it has to do with centering (front AND back) and how clean the photos and borders are.
It's fine if you don't care about these qualities, there's nothing wrong with owning a 9, 8, raw or anything that you enjoy. But to say what you say about people who own 10s, well that just says to me that you don't really know how to spot one. >>
These modern high grade rookie cards are not dinosaurs. They are not going to grow extinct so I find that argument laughable.
And I assure you I know how to spot the difference between a 9 and 10. I can't tell you how many 9's I have turned in to 10's upon re-submitting since about 2000.
Like I said before, no card is truly perfect. I can find a flaw on every 10 I have ever handled. They key to grading is to find a card that might not be flawless, but is good enough to get in to the next level's holder. When you finally figure that out, and don't just buy a card blindly for what the label says, that is when you finally have a full understanding of the grading game. And in the process, you can build a nice collection and not spend silly amounts of money just so you can have bragging rights of owning that 10 on a label. I have seen those guys, and in the end, they tie up tons of money in cards that are in 10 holders, but if cracked and re-submitted, might be 9's at best. Or in this latest Winfield's case, maybe an 8-8.5 at best on a good day.
Like my dad used to say, some people have more money than brains, and if they are not careful, they will end up with little of either.
<< <i>Maybe people are selling the over inflated stocks and buying physical assets? The card market is for sure on a rise right now. I just see it as people moving their money into a different area. The money is always somewhere. And Id rather have a physical property over a promise. And I get enjoyment from owning a rare sports collectable. It has a history and a story.
Cards still might be undervalued if you relate them to gold prices of 2001
In 2001 You could by a 1963 pete Rose Rookie PSA 8 for about 1250.00(at the time about 4 ounces of gold) And today it's about 3200(or 2.7 ounces of gold today)
2001 a 1979 OPC Gretzky was 1,000 in a PSA 8 (3.3 ounces of gold then) and now its about a 1750 in a PSA 8 ( 1.3 ounces of gold)
So should the Rose be worth 4,800 and the Gretzky be worth 4,000? Or is gold undervalued and cards overvalued?
I just view it like this. >>
The bolded^^ Especially, with what we have facing us as a nation economic wise.
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago. Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat? What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years? And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too. >>
Economic experts are saying it. I believe they are more qualified to make these predictions than you or I.
What if PSA 10's drop in value over the next few years due to an economic crisis? Can you eat those cards to stay alive? What becomes a priority for people then?
I don't care what goes down as far as cards are concerned. I don't do cards as an investment. They are nothing but an enjoyable hobby to me. >>
I would think its a fair assumption that most people are not spending their retirement income on PSA 10's, rather their hobby or disposable income. So if the cards go down in value they could hold the cards and wait for the economy to prosper again.
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago. Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat? What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years? And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too. >>
Economic experts are saying it. I believe they are more qualified to make these predictions than you or I.
What if PSA 10's drop in value over the next few years due to an economic crisis? Can you eat those cards to stay alive? What becomes a priority for people then?
I don't care what goes down as far as cards are concerned. I don't do cards as an investment. They are nothing but an enjoyable hobby to me. >>
First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
I agree no one can predict the future. And I also agree most people would not have predicted the meteoric rises in price that we have seen in cards.
Thanks. Maybe it was the year before that there was a sale in the $3,400 range.
Either way. Here you go. Just a few months ago a copy went for $380. I see there is a recent sale closer to $500 and a few in the $450 range. That said there are sales in 2012 of PSA 9's at essentially the same price. One at $460 and another at $510. The PSA 10 sold in May and most likely lead to the higher selling prices after that point. That said the PSA 10 is nearly double the selling price today.
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen. >>
"Experts" LOL
And what about the supply of cards that continually erodes. Care to comment on that? >>
There is no shortage of these products out there so far, and more and more of these cards will be submitted over time. You can also find most of these modern gem mint rookies up for auction yearly as they are passed like hot potatoes from auction house to auction house, then Ebay, and on down the line. If you watch the auctions, you may be surprised just how many of them are recycled from place to place. This latest Winfield is just one example of that.
Honestly, the modern 10 craze is for people who like to look at the label that says 10 more than anything. Even gem mint cards have slight flaws under close examination. So why pay insane amounts of money for them, when you can find cards just as nice in 9 holders for thousands of dollars less? I think more and more people are going to realize this over time. >>
Which products are you referring to? If we're talking pre 1980s than yes there is a shortage, and it will just get "shorter" over time. You also need to look at things from a much wider perspective, at least when it comes to time. In the decades and centuries to follow many of these cards will be lost or destroyed. Fewer and fewer raw cards will be submitted to replace these relics and over time the population will only decrease.
Again, what do you refer to as "modern"? Also, IMO if you knew how to spot the difference between a 9 and 10 then you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. For those in the know, there is, most times, a quite evident difference between a pre 1980s 9 and a 10. Many times it has to do with centering (front AND back) and how clean the photos and borders are.
It's fine if you don't care about these qualities, there's nothing wrong with owning a 9, 8, raw or anything that you enjoy. But to say what you say about people who own 10s, well that just says to me that you don't really know how to spot one. >>
Numerous examples in this thread have shown that the PSA 10 is generally the better investment compared to the 9. I realize sultan of swat would like to buy the affordable 9 and hope to get it reviewed and bumped to a 10 as he stated in the thread "questions on PSA 10's". So therefore sultan of swat does care about the grade and not so much the card as he claims.
<< <i>So less gold should buy more cards? And in that sense it seems the bubble popped one Gretzky and Rose rookies a while ago. For these 2 examples
And a PSA 10 Henderson in 2001 was what 5000(17 ounces of gold in 2001 value) and now 30,000 ( or 25 ounces of gold in todays value)
Which goes with the point it is a good investment in buying PSA 10s >>
No, cards like the Henderson are overpriced, and gold is undervalued. The high grade modern rookie cards are in a bubble due to the easy money being made in the manipulated stock market that even guys like Warren Buffet says is due for a correction. When it corrects and the chickens come home to roost, so too will these modern high grade rookie cards that have skyrocketed.
<< <i>So less gold should buy more cards? And in that sense it seems the bubble popped one Gretzky and Rose rookies a while ago. For these 2 examples
And a PSA 10 Henderson in 2001 was what 5000(17 ounces of gold in 2001 value) and now 30,000 ( or 25 ounces of gold in todays value)
Which goes with the point it is a good investment in buying PSA 10s >>
No, cards like the Henderson are overpriced, and gold is undervalued. The high grade modern rookie cards are in a bubble due to the easy money being made in the manipulated stock market that even guys like Warren Buffet says is due for a correction. When it corrects and the chickens come home to roost, so too will these modern high grade rookie cards that have skyrocketed. >>
Cards like 1980 Henderson rookie are not modern cards and you would know if you have collected a long time. Most people refer to modern cards as late 1980's to now. Cards in the 80's like henderson rookie, bird magic, rice, etc were not mass produced like the ones beginning in the late 80's and early 90's.
<< <i>Agree sounds like sultan of swat is sour grapes and wishes he could have the 10 but since he can't or doesn't want to spend the big money he'll buy the more affordable 9 which according to him has more eye appeal and along the way insult the 10 owners. Although numerous examples in this thread have shown that the PSA 10 is generally the better investment compared to the 9, sultan of swat still doesn't get it. >>
I can buy pretty much what I want, but unlike some, I have not been duped in to the buy the holder game.
Sour grapes because I am trying to explain to you how to have 10's and not spend stupid amounts of money to get them? Laughable!
I am not talking about what is the better investment because I don't invest in baseball cards. It's a hobby. There are smarter things to invest money in with what this country is facing in the near future. Also, the modern high grade rookie cards are in a bubble. That is something some of you guys are having a hard time accepting, but the numbers don't lie.
It's like a friend of mine who went out and bought gold when it skyrocketed to $1900 an ounce. I told him it would correct and come down and to wait until it did. He wouldn't listen. He ended up spending more than a quarter of a million on gold at $1900 an ounce.
Comments
That 10 is really an 8.5 in disguise.
I bet the consignor is very happy though right now with that 10's price.
<< <i>I'll take that sweet looking 9 all day over the 10.
That 10 is really an 8.5 in disguise.
I bet the consignor is very happy though right now with that 10's price. >>
This was posted earlier. They need it to get some more action.
This is the same card, in fact this will be the fourth sale of this card in the last two years:
2/10/15 eBay PWCC $6,405.00
5/14/14 Heritage $5,078.75
8/30/13 Memory Lane $6,164.20
<< <i>I'll take that sweet looking 9 all day over the 10.
That 10 is really an 8.5 in disguise.
I bet the consignor is very happy though right now with that 10's price. >>
I agree with you on all points. And just think, you could own a sweet Winfield and save thousands of dollars to add even more sweet cards to your collection.
<< <i>When the next bubble pops in this economy(it's just a matter of time), there are going to be a lot of people holding the bag on these modern high grade rookie cards that have exploded in price. Better them than me. >>
I agree with this, but even outside of just the general economy. I do believe if there is a bubble in sportscard collecting, it is most exaggerated in "10"s. This isn't sustainable.
If the flips are hidden or those two cards exact cards are sitting raw in a penny sleeve and top loader at a show at the National, everyone takes that 9 over the 10 at equal prices.
"Past performance does not guarantee future results"
<< <i>
<< <i>When the next bubble pops in this economy(it's just a matter of time), there are going to be a lot of people holding the bag on these modern high grade rookie cards that have exploded in price. Better them than me. >>
I agree with this, but even outside of just the general economy. I do believe if there is a bubble in sportscard collecting, it is most exaggerated in "10"s. This isn't sustainable.
If the flips are hidden or those two cards exact cards are sitting raw in a penny sleeve and top loader at a show at the National, everyone takes that 9 over the 10 at equal prices.
"Past performance does not guarantee future results" >>
Yes, indeed. Once the easy money dries up when the correction hits and the chickens come home to roost, the sports card market will not escape the wrath either.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then.
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Haha I agree. The grade on the label tells the story at the end of the day. I keep on reading over the years how people post that their lower grade card is more eye appealing and thus better than the higher graded card. Just wishful thinking that they had the higher graded and more valuable card. >>
So in other words, buy the holder not the card >>
Actually if you can afford the 10 I recommend it.
If you can't then buy the card not the holder. >>
PSA 10's have proven time and time again to perform extremely well when a set or segment gets hot. The PSA 10 Rickey Henderson is just a prime example. A PSA 10 five years ago was a $9,000 to perhaps $12,000 card. At the same time a PSA 9 was in the mid $200's. Today you can get a PSA 9 in some cases close to $300 yet the PSA 10 recently sold for $31,000.
You can't argue with the math. I have tons of the same cards because one has better centering or corners or no print dots etc. But from a true numbers standpoint the 10's win.
The Jerry Rice might be the best example. Go back to VCP in 2012 and on a percentage basis the 10 absolutely crushes the performance of the 9.
I have one card in particular that I like one of my PSA 9's better than my PSA 10. If I put both up on EBAY there is a zero percent chance the PSA 9 will sell for even close to what the PSA 10 does. >>
What Rickey Henderson sold for $31,000. I don't see it in VCP.
<< <i>
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Haha I agree. The grade on the label tells the story at the end of the day. I keep on reading over the years how people post that their lower grade card is more eye appealing and thus better than the higher graded card. Just wishful thinking that they had the higher graded and more valuable card. >>
So in other words, buy the holder not the card >>
Actually if you can afford the 10 I recommend it.
If you can't then buy the card not the holder. >>
PSA 10's have proven time and time again to perform extremely well when a set or segment gets hot. The PSA 10 Rickey Henderson is just a prime example. A PSA 10 five years ago was a $9,000 to perhaps $12,000 card. At the same time a PSA 9 was in the mid $200's. Today you can get a PSA 9 in some cases close to $300 yet the PSA 10 recently sold for $31,000.
You can't argue with the math. I have tons of the same cards because one has better centering or corners or no print dots etc. But from a true numbers standpoint the 10's win.
The Jerry Rice might be the best example. Go back to VCP in 2012 and on a percentage basis the 10 absolutely crushes the performance of the 9.
I have one card in particular that I like one of my PSA 9's better than my PSA 10. If I put both up on EBAY there is a zero percent chance the PSA 9 will sell for even close to what the PSA 10 does. >>
What Rickey Henderson sold for $31,000. I don't see it in VCP. >>
PSA 10
I couldn't recall the exact price and just rounded up.
Mile High $30,325.19
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Haha I agree. The grade on the label tells the story at the end of the day. I keep on reading over the years how people post that their lower grade card is more eye appealing and thus better than the higher graded card. Just wishful thinking that they had the higher graded and more valuable card. >>
So in other words, buy the holder not the card >>
Actually if you can afford the 10 I recommend it.
If you can't then buy the card not the holder. >>
PSA 10's have proven time and time again to perform extremely well when a set or segment gets hot. The PSA 10 Rickey Henderson is just a prime example. A PSA 10 five years ago was a $9,000 to perhaps $12,000 card. At the same time a PSA 9 was in the mid $200's. Today you can get a PSA 9 in some cases close to $300 yet the PSA 10 recently sold for $31,000.
You can't argue with the math. I have tons of the same cards because one has better centering or corners or no print dots etc. But from a true numbers standpoint the 10's win.
The Jerry Rice might be the best example. Go back to VCP in 2012 and on a percentage basis the 10 absolutely crushes the performance of the 9.
I have one card in particular that I like one of my PSA 9's better than my PSA 10. If I put both up on EBAY there is a zero percent chance the PSA 9 will sell for even close to what the PSA 10 does. >>
What Rickey Henderson sold for $31,000. I don't see it in VCP. >>
PSA 10
I couldn't recall the exact price and just rounded up.
Mile High $30,325.19 >>
That's insane. Card looks a bit OC to the left to me also. Congratulations to the seller on that one.
I heard that a seller on this board sold one privately for around that amount several months ago. That would explain this heavy action.
Thanks for the links Dpeck.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat?
What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years?
And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too.
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen.
<< <i>Why is that warrior?[/q)
Because anyone can own a Winfield rookie. Only a few collectors can own a PSA 10.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why is that warrior?[/q)
Because anyone can own a Winfield rookie. Only a few collectors can own a PSA 10. >>
Bingo
<< <i>
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen. >>
"Experts" LOL
And what about the supply of cards that continually erodes. Care to comment on that?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat?
What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years?
And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too. >>
Economic experts are saying it. I believe they are more qualified to make these predictions than you or I.
What if PSA 10's drop in value over the next few years due to an economic crisis? Can you eat those cards to stay alive? What becomes a priority for people then?
I don't care what goes down as far as cards are concerned. I don't do cards as an investment. They are nothing but an enjoyable hobby to me.
<< <i>
<< <i>Why is that warrior?[/q)
Because anyone can own a Winfield rookie. Only a few collectors can own a PSA 10. >>
But who wants to own one that looks like a 7 or 8, and pay 10 prices for it, when a sharp PSA 9 can be had for thousands less?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat?
What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years?
And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too. >>
Economic experts are saying it. I believe they are more qualified to make these predictions than you or I.
What if PSA 10's drop in value over the next few years due to an economic crisis? Can you eat those cards to stay alive? What becomes a priority for people then?
I don't care what goes down as far as cards are concerned. I don't do cards as an investment. They are nothing but an enjoyable hobby to me. >>
First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen. >>
"Experts" LOL
And what about the supply of cards that continually erodes. Care to comment on that? >>
There is no shortage of these products out there so far, and more and more of these cards will be submitted over time. You can also find most of these modern gem mint rookies up for auction yearly as they are passed like hot potatoes from auction house to auction house, then Ebay, and on down the line. If you watch the auctions, you may be surprised just how many of them are recycled from place to place. This latest Winfield is just one example of that.
Honestly, the modern 10 craze is for people who like to look at the label that says 10 more than anything. Even gem mint cards have slight flaws under close examination. So why pay insane amounts of money for them, when you can find cards just as nice in 9 holders for thousands of dollars less? I think more and more people are going to realize this over time.
I think it was like $350 and $3,400.
Thanks.
<< <i>First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
You seem like a level headed person, and we agree on most things you just stated here.
<< <i>Someone who has VCP please post what a PSA 9 and PSA 10 Paul Molitor sold for from 2012.
I think it was like $350 and $3,400.
Thanks. >>
The 1978 one?
<< <i>
<< <i>First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
You seem like a level headed person, and we agree on most things you just stated here. >>
He collects pictures of men in tight underwear. How could you trust someone like that?
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone who has VCP please post what a PSA 9 and PSA 10 Paul Molitor sold for from 2012.
I think it was like $350 and $3,400.
Thanks. >>
The 1978 one? >>
Yes
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
You seem like a level headed person, and we agree on most things you just stated here. >>
He collects pictures of men in tight underwear. How could you trust someone like that? >>
Welcome back Bill.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
You seem like a level headed person, and we agree on most things you just stated here. >>
He collects pictures of men in tight underwear. How could you trust someone like that? >>
LOL! I guess we're all a bunch of nuts in a hobby that I wouldn't trade for anything. Thanks guys for the fun conversations.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone who has VCP please post what a PSA 9 and PSA 10 Paul Molitor sold for from 2012.
I think it was like $350 and $3,400.
Thanks. >>
The 1978 one? >>
Yes >>
PSA 9:
12/27/12 eBay Image gandgcards a***r Best Offer $325.00
12/20/12 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles 2***3 25 $350.00
11/27/12 eBay Image carlsraiders g***e 15 $305.01
11/23/12 eBay Image bo_sox_no_1_fan a***f 14 $368.00
11/8/12 eBay Image dubblg e***r 9 $300.00
11/3/12 eBay Image leewmd i***1 9 $301.00
11/2/12 eBay Image skbsales2011 f***e 2 $310.00
10/31/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***r 19 $382.00
10/28/12 eBay Image armypilot1 1***f 1 $350.00
10/21/12 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles f***s 17 $338.33
10/14/12 eBay Image probstein123 g***3 19 $376.50
10/3/12 eBay Image psa.gems i***l 29 $460.00
9/30/12 eBay Image glibersher h***1 25 $347.89
9/26/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***1 36 $510.00
7/19/12 eBay Image 4_sharp_corners d***b BIN $269.99
7/15/12 eBay Image massachusettsprogressive i***g 6 $220.50
7/10/12 eBay Image akira5150 e***e BIN $250.00
7/1/12 eBay Image todd081572 i***i Best Offer $265.00
6/19/12 eBay Image 4_sharp_corners u***d BIN $249.99
5/6/12 eBay Image dmaul83 a***r 16 $225.50
5/2/12 eBay Image prewarcardcollector a***d 9 $227.50
4/10/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***o 11 $286.00
4/8/12 eBay Image shoeboxfinds s***b BIN $225.00
3/19/12 eBay Image stackhousecards 2***0 13 $225.00
3/18/12 eBay Image bleacher_bum 8***d 12 $225.99
3/11/12 eBay Image probstein123 m***y 13 $227.50
1/29/12 eBay Image im-a-monster v***c Best Offer $200.00
1/15/12 eBay Image superiorinvestments e***e 18 $255.00
1/13/12 eBay Image syaelbelle s***n BIN $200.00
PSA 10:
5/20/12 SCP Auctions Image 10 $4,569.60
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone who has VCP please post what a PSA 9 and PSA 10 Paul Molitor sold for from 2012.
I think it was like $350 and $3,400.
Thanks. >>
The 1978 one? >>
Yes >>
PSA 9:
12/27/12 eBay Image gandgcards a***r Best Offer $325.00
12/20/12 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles 2***3 25 $350.00
11/27/12 eBay Image carlsraiders g***e 15 $305.01
11/23/12 eBay Image bo_sox_no_1_fan a***f 14 $368.00
11/8/12 eBay Image dubblg e***r 9 $300.00
11/3/12 eBay Image leewmd i***1 9 $301.00
11/2/12 eBay Image skbsales2011 f***e 2 $310.00
10/31/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***r 19 $382.00
10/28/12 eBay Image armypilot1 1***f 1 $350.00
10/21/12 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles f***s 17 $338.33
10/14/12 eBay Image probstein123 g***3 19 $376.50
10/3/12 eBay Image psa.gems i***l 29 $460.00
9/30/12 eBay Image glibersher h***1 25 $347.89
9/26/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***1 36 $510.00
7/19/12 eBay Image 4_sharp_corners d***b BIN $269.99
7/15/12 eBay Image massachusettsprogressive i***g 6 $220.50
7/10/12 eBay Image akira5150 e***e BIN $250.00
7/1/12 eBay Image todd081572 i***i Best Offer $265.00
6/19/12 eBay Image 4_sharp_corners u***d BIN $249.99
5/6/12 eBay Image dmaul83 a***r 16 $225.50
5/2/12 eBay Image prewarcardcollector a***d 9 $227.50
4/10/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***o 11 $286.00
4/8/12 eBay Image shoeboxfinds s***b BIN $225.00
3/19/12 eBay Image stackhousecards 2***0 13 $225.00
3/18/12 eBay Image bleacher_bum 8***d 12 $225.99
3/11/12 eBay Image probstein123 m***y 13 $227.50
1/29/12 eBay Image im-a-monster v***c Best Offer $200.00
1/15/12 eBay Image superiorinvestments e***e 18 $255.00
1/13/12 eBay Image syaelbelle s***n BIN $200.00
PSA 10:
5/20/12 SCP Auctions Image 10 $4,569.60 >>
Thanks. Maybe it was the year before that there was a sale in the $3,400 range.
Either way. Here you go. Just a few months ago a copy went for $380. I see there is a recent sale closer to $500 and a few in the $450 range. That said there are sales in 2012 of PSA 9's at essentially the same price. One at $460 and another at $510. The PSA 10 sold in May and most likely lead to the higher selling prices after that point. That said the PSA 10 is nearly double the selling price today.
PSA 9 Molitor
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen. >>
"Experts" LOL
And what about the supply of cards that continually erodes. Care to comment on that? >>
There is no shortage of these products out there so far, and more and more of these cards will be submitted over time. You can also find most of these modern gem mint rookies up for auction yearly as they are passed like hot potatoes from auction house to auction house, then Ebay, and on down the line. If you watch the auctions, you may be surprised just how many of them are recycled from place to place. This latest Winfield is just one example of that.
Honestly, the modern 10 craze is for people who like to look at the label that says 10 more than anything. Even gem mint cards have slight flaws under close examination. So why pay insane amounts of money for them, when you can find cards just as nice in 9 holders for thousands of dollars less? I think more and more people are going to realize this over time. >>
Which products are you referring to? If we're talking pre 1980s than yes there is a shortage, and it will just get "shorter" over time. You also need to look at things from a much wider perspective, at least when it comes to time. In the decades and centuries to follow many of these cards will be lost or destroyed. Fewer and fewer raw cards will be submitted to replace these relics and over time the population will only decrease.
Again, what do you refer to as "modern"? Also, IMO if you knew how to spot the difference between a 9 and 10 then you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. For those in the know, there is, most times, a quite evident difference between a pre 1980s 9 and a 10. Many times it has to do with centering (front AND back) and how clean the photos and borders are.
It's fine if you don't care about these qualities, there's nothing wrong with owning a 9, 8, raw or anything that you enjoy. But to say what you say about people who own 10s, well that just says to me that you don't really know how to spot one.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone who has VCP please post what a PSA 9 and PSA 10 Paul Molitor sold for from 2012.
I think it was like $350 and $3,400.
Thanks. >>
The 1978 one? >>
Yes >>
PSA 9:
12/27/12 eBay Image gandgcards a***r Best Offer $325.00
12/20/12 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles 2***3 25 $350.00
11/27/12 eBay Image carlsraiders g***e 15 $305.01
11/23/12 eBay Image bo_sox_no_1_fan a***f 14 $368.00
11/8/12 eBay Image dubblg e***r 9 $300.00
11/3/12 eBay Image leewmd i***1 9 $301.00
11/2/12 eBay Image skbsales2011 f***e 2 $310.00
10/31/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***r 19 $382.00
10/28/12 eBay Image armypilot1 1***f 1 $350.00
10/21/12 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles f***s 17 $338.33
10/14/12 eBay Image probstein123 g***3 19 $376.50
10/3/12 eBay Image psa.gems i***l 29 $460.00
9/30/12 eBay Image glibersher h***1 25 $347.89
9/26/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***1 36 $510.00
7/19/12 eBay Image 4_sharp_corners d***b BIN $269.99
7/15/12 eBay Image massachusettsprogressive i***g 6 $220.50
7/10/12 eBay Image akira5150 e***e BIN $250.00
7/1/12 eBay Image todd081572 i***i Best Offer $265.00
6/19/12 eBay Image 4_sharp_corners u***d BIN $249.99
5/6/12 eBay Image dmaul83 a***r 16 $225.50
5/2/12 eBay Image prewarcardcollector a***d 9 $227.50
4/10/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***o 11 $286.00
4/8/12 eBay Image shoeboxfinds s***b BIN $225.00
3/19/12 eBay Image stackhousecards 2***0 13 $225.00
3/18/12 eBay Image bleacher_bum 8***d 12 $225.99
3/11/12 eBay Image probstein123 m***y 13 $227.50
1/29/12 eBay Image im-a-monster v***c Best Offer $200.00
1/15/12 eBay Image superiorinvestments e***e 18 $255.00
1/13/12 eBay Image syaelbelle s***n BIN $200.00
PSA 10:
5/20/12 SCP Auctions Image 10 $4,569.60 >>
Thanks. Maybe it was the year before that there was a sale in the $3,400 range.
Either way. Here you go. Just a few months ago a copy went for $380. I see there is a recent sale closer to $500 and a few in the $450 range. That said there are sales in 2012 of PSA 9's at essentially the same price and one at $460. The card has really not advanced. That said the PSA 10 is nearly double the selling price.
PSA 9 Molitor >>
Here's all the PSA 10 info:
6/14/15 eBay Auction | Image probstein123 1***n 41 $7,975.25
5/14/15 Heritage Auction | Image 8 $10,157.50
1/11/15 Memory Lane Auction | Image 7 $10,226.80
2/23/14 eBay Image mnmiracle2004 e***b 49 $8,100.00
3/25/13 eBay Image 212bluesky a***d 23 $5,836.23
5/20/12 SCP Auctions Image 10 $4,569.60
11/27/10 Mile High Image 7 $3,293.92
2/6/10 eBay Image wcsports1 2***y 26 $2,550.00
5/31/09 eBay Image mgsinisc e***e 13 $1,202.00
4/4/09 Memory Lane Image 11 $2,518.02
10/1/08 Mile High Image 15 $4,593.08
3/6/08 eBay consignmints cnotes10000 16 $1,551.76
1/27/08 eBay Image consignmints bling_king529 15 $1,781.01
1/15/08 eBay Image consignmints cjcardboardtrust 14 $1,976.00
7/16/07 eBay $2,102.77
I knew I was close on the price because when it moved up to $4,500 it was called over valued on this board.
<< <i>11/27/10 Mile High Image 7 $3,293.92
I knew I was close on the price because when it moved up to $4,500 it was called over valued on this board. >>
It's the same old story, "over valued" when it's someone else's card ... end of the world when it's "their" card that doesn't sell for VCP.
<< <i>
<< <i>11/27/10 Mile High Image 7 $3,293.92
I knew I was close on the price because when it moved up to $4,500 it was called over valued on this board. >>
It's the same old story, "over valued" when it's someone else's card ... end of the world when it's "their" card that doesn't sell for VCP. >>
There is no right way to collect but if profit is your primary motive in the past few years buying the highest graded copy has been the best move in most cases.
Clearly there are some collectors out there that can buy cards and re submit them and achieve higher grades but most do not have this skill or luck.
People can hate on the card all they want but the market is choosing not to listen and awarding the premium price because of PSA's opinion.
It is what it is.
The card market is for sure on a rise right now.
I just see it as people moving their money into a different area. The money is always somewhere.
And Id rather have a physical property over a promise.
And I get enjoyment from owning a rare sports collectable. It has a history and a story.
Cards still might be undervalued if you relate them to gold prices of 2001
In 2001 You could by a 1963 pete Rose Rookie PSA 8 for about 1250.00(at the time about 4 ounces of gold) And today it's about 3200(or 2.7 ounces of gold today)
2001 a 1979 OPC Gretzky was 1,000 in a PSA 8 (3.3 ounces of gold then) and now its about a 1750 in a PSA 8 ( 1.3 ounces of gold)
So should the Rose be worth 4,800 and the Gretzky be worth 4,000?
Or is gold undervalued and cards overvalued?
I just view it like this.
<< <i>Which products are you referring to? If we're talking pre 1980s than yes there is a shortage, and it will just get "shorter" over time. You also need to look at things from a much wider perspective, at least when it comes to time. In the decades and centuries to follow many of these cards will be lost or destroyed. Fewer and fewer raw cards will be submitted to replace these relics and over time the population will only decrease.
Again, what do you refer to as "modern"? Also, IMO if you knew how to spot the difference between a 9 and 10 then you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. For those in the know, there is, most times, a quite evident difference between a pre 1980s 9 and a 10. Many times it has to do with centering (front AND back) and how clean the photos and borders are.
It's fine if you don't care about these qualities, there's nothing wrong with owning a 9, 8, raw or anything that you enjoy. But to say what you say about people who own 10s, well that just says to me that you don't really know how to spot one. >>
These modern high grade rookie cards are not dinosaurs. They are not going to grow extinct so I find that argument laughable.
And I assure you I know how to spot the difference between a 9 and 10. I can't tell you how many 9's I have turned in to 10's upon re-submitting since about 2000.
Like I said before, no card is truly perfect. I can find a flaw on every 10 I have ever handled. They key to grading is to find a card that might not be flawless, but is good enough to get in to the next level's holder. When you finally figure that out, and don't just buy a card blindly for what the label says, that is when you finally have a full understanding of the grading game. And in the process, you can build a nice collection and not spend silly amounts of money just so you can have bragging rights of owning that 10 on a label. I have seen those guys, and in the end, they tie up tons of money in cards that are in 10 holders, but if cracked and re-submitted, might be 9's at best. Or in this latest Winfield's case, maybe an 8-8.5 at best on a good day.
Like my dad used to say, some people have more money than brains, and if they are not careful, they will end up with little of either.
<< <i>Maybe people are selling the over inflated stocks and buying physical assets?
The card market is for sure on a rise right now.
I just see it as people moving their money into a different area. The money is always somewhere.
And Id rather have a physical property over a promise.
And I get enjoyment from owning a rare sports collectable. It has a history and a story.
Cards still might be undervalued if you relate them to gold prices of 2001
In 2001 You could by a 1963 pete Rose Rookie PSA 8 for about 1250.00(at the time about 4 ounces of gold) And today it's about 3200(or 2.7 ounces of gold today)
2001 a 1979 OPC Gretzky was 1,000 in a PSA 8 (3.3 ounces of gold then) and now its about a 1750 in a PSA 8 ( 1.3 ounces of gold)
So should the Rose be worth 4,800 and the Gretzky be worth 4,000?
Or is gold undervalued and cards overvalued?
I just view it like this. >>
The bolded^^ Especially, with what we have facing us as a nation economic wise.
And in that sense it seems the bubble popped one Gretzky and Rose rookies a while ago.
For these 2 examples
And a PSA 10 Henderson in 2001 was what 5000(17 ounces of gold in 2001 value) and now 30,000 ( or 25 ounces of gold in todays value)
Which goes with the point it is a good investment in buying PSA 10s
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat?
What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years?
And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too. >>
Economic experts are saying it. I believe they are more qualified to make these predictions than you or I.
What if PSA 10's drop in value over the next few years due to an economic crisis? Can you eat those cards to stay alive? What becomes a priority for people then?
I don't care what goes down as far as cards are concerned. I don't do cards as an investment. They are nothing but an enjoyable hobby to me. >>
I would think its a fair assumption that most people are not spending their retirement income on PSA 10's, rather their hobby or disposable income. So if the cards go down in value they could hold the cards and wait for the economy to prosper again.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Why is that warrior?[/q)
Because anyone can own a Winfield rookie. Only a few collectors can own a PSA 10. >>
But who wants to own one that looks like a 7 or 8, and pay 10 prices for it, when a sharp PSA 9 can be had for thousands less? >>
Then go ahead and buy your eye appealing 9, no one is stopping you.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>The "bubble" popped on the economy ten years ago.
Yet many segments of this hobby have seen values triple since then. >>
No, the correction hasn't hit yet. The values have went up due to the easy money being made through manipulated markets. The debt is not sustainable, and neither is the propped up stock market. Things are a changing in the world. The crisis hasn't hit here yet, but it's a coming. >>
I don't think so. What many people don't seem to grasp is that there is a limited supply of all of these cards. As time passes this supply vanishes, slowly and sometimes quickly, forever for one reason or another.
Some people have realized this so they have gotten ahead of the game by buying early and strong. Others are completely oblivious and certain card issues are strongly underpriced in spite of their rarity and allure.
It's all just a matter of time, and for many, cards and the experience of obtaining them is infinitely more valuable than the money it takes. >>
Like the other poster said, the cards are riding the stock market bubble's highs due to the easy money being made. It's not going to last much longer. The world debt crisis is already happening overseas, and it will be here before you know it.
And now, China is announcing they are about to have a gold backed money system, while we continue to print fiat money back by nothing but mountains of debt to foreign countries, while we artificially inflate the stock market with devalued dollars. We are in so much trouble, and 70% of the country have no clue what is coming. By the time they realize it, it will be too late.
When the easy money dries up, we will see that reflected in the sales prices realized for these cards. >>
So you can predict the future sultan of swat?
What if prices of these PSA 10's multiply in value over the next few years?
And if the economy corrects don't forget your PSA 9's will go down in value too. >>
Economic experts are saying it. I believe they are more qualified to make these predictions than you or I.
What if PSA 10's drop in value over the next few years due to an economic crisis? Can you eat those cards to stay alive? What becomes a priority for people then?
I don't care what goes down as far as cards are concerned. I don't do cards as an investment. They are nothing but an enjoyable hobby to me. >>
First of all I am in the finance business. If anything the finance industry has its head in the sand.
I agree there are storms on the horizon and worry about our countries future.
That said there are tons of collectors like me that won't be selling our collections no matter what happens to the stock market.
Not one person on this board could have predicted some of the meteoric rises we have seen in certain cards to a T and none of us will be able to perfectly predict the future either. >>
I agree no one can predict the future. And I also agree most people would not have predicted the meteoric rises in price that we have seen in cards.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Someone who has VCP please post what a PSA 9 and PSA 10 Paul Molitor sold for from 2012.
I think it was like $350 and $3,400.
Thanks. >>
The 1978 one? >>
Yes >>
PSA 9:
12/27/12 eBay Image gandgcards a***r Best Offer $325.00
12/20/12 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles 2***3 25 $350.00
11/27/12 eBay Image carlsraiders g***e 15 $305.01
11/23/12 eBay Image bo_sox_no_1_fan a***f 14 $368.00
11/8/12 eBay Image dubblg e***r 9 $300.00
11/3/12 eBay Image leewmd i***1 9 $301.00
11/2/12 eBay Image skbsales2011 f***e 2 $310.00
10/31/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***r 19 $382.00
10/28/12 eBay Image armypilot1 1***f 1 $350.00
10/21/12 eBay Image sundiegocollectibles f***s 17 $338.33
10/14/12 eBay Image probstein123 g***3 19 $376.50
10/3/12 eBay Image psa.gems i***l 29 $460.00
9/30/12 eBay Image glibersher h***1 25 $347.89
9/26/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***1 36 $510.00
7/19/12 eBay Image 4_sharp_corners d***b BIN $269.99
7/15/12 eBay Image massachusettsprogressive i***g 6 $220.50
7/10/12 eBay Image akira5150 e***e BIN $250.00
7/1/12 eBay Image todd081572 i***i Best Offer $265.00
6/19/12 eBay Image 4_sharp_corners u***d BIN $249.99
5/6/12 eBay Image dmaul83 a***r 16 $225.50
5/2/12 eBay Image prewarcardcollector a***d 9 $227.50
4/10/12 eBay Image probstein123 h***o 11 $286.00
4/8/12 eBay Image shoeboxfinds s***b BIN $225.00
3/19/12 eBay Image stackhousecards 2***0 13 $225.00
3/18/12 eBay Image bleacher_bum 8***d 12 $225.99
3/11/12 eBay Image probstein123 m***y 13 $227.50
1/29/12 eBay Image im-a-monster v***c Best Offer $200.00
1/15/12 eBay Image superiorinvestments e***e 18 $255.00
1/13/12 eBay Image syaelbelle s***n BIN $200.00
PSA 10:
5/20/12 SCP Auctions Image 10 $4,569.60 >>
Thanks. Maybe it was the year before that there was a sale in the $3,400 range.
Either way. Here you go. Just a few months ago a copy went for $380. I see there is a recent sale closer to $500 and a few in the $450 range. That said there are sales in 2012 of PSA 9's at essentially the same price. One at $460 and another at $510. The PSA 10 sold in May and most likely lead to the higher selling prices after that point. That said the PSA 10 is nearly double the selling price today.
PSA 9 Molitor >>
True this is another example of how the PSA 10 heavily outperforms the PSA 9.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>SultanOfSwat, I think you're missing my point here, or at least ignoring it all together.
If you care to comment on what I actually said I'd appreciate it. >>
Sir, I'm not ignoring what you are saying. I am actually addressing it by explaining the easy money that is flowing now will not be there in the future for many to buy these cards. At that time, people will finally realize the bubble these sports cards are truly in.
With that said, I agree that wanting to own those cards is a great desire to many people. But desire can only take one so far when the money is not there to own them during an economic crisis. And like the experts are saying, it's not a matter of if but when it's going to happen. >>
"Experts" LOL
And what about the supply of cards that continually erodes. Care to comment on that? >>
There is no shortage of these products out there so far, and more and more of these cards will be submitted over time. You can also find most of these modern gem mint rookies up for auction yearly as they are passed like hot potatoes from auction house to auction house, then Ebay, and on down the line. If you watch the auctions, you may be surprised just how many of them are recycled from place to place. This latest Winfield is just one example of that.
Honestly, the modern 10 craze is for people who like to look at the label that says 10 more than anything. Even gem mint cards have slight flaws under close examination. So why pay insane amounts of money for them, when you can find cards just as nice in 9 holders for thousands of dollars less? I think more and more people are going to realize this over time. >>
Which products are you referring to? If we're talking pre 1980s than yes there is a shortage, and it will just get "shorter" over time. You also need to look at things from a much wider perspective, at least when it comes to time. In the decades and centuries to follow many of these cards will be lost or destroyed. Fewer and fewer raw cards will be submitted to replace these relics and over time the population will only decrease.
Again, what do you refer to as "modern"? Also, IMO if you knew how to spot the difference between a 9 and 10 then you wouldn't be saying what you're saying. For those in the know, there is, most times, a quite evident difference between a pre 1980s 9 and a 10. Many times it has to do with centering (front AND back) and how clean the photos and borders are.
It's fine if you don't care about these qualities, there's nothing wrong with owning a 9, 8, raw or anything that you enjoy. But to say what you say about people who own 10s, well that just says to me that you don't really know how to spot one. >>
Numerous examples in this thread have shown that the PSA 10 is generally the better investment compared to the 9.
I realize sultan of swat would like to buy the affordable 9 and hope to get it reviewed and bumped to a 10 as he stated in the thread "questions on PSA 10's". So therefore sultan of swat does care about the grade and not so much the card as he claims.
<< <i>So less gold should buy more cards?
And in that sense it seems the bubble popped one Gretzky and Rose rookies a while ago.
For these 2 examples
And a PSA 10 Henderson in 2001 was what 5000(17 ounces of gold in 2001 value) and now 30,000 ( or 25 ounces of gold in todays value)
Which goes with the point it is a good investment in buying PSA 10s >>
No, cards like the Henderson are overpriced, and gold is undervalued. The high grade modern rookie cards are in a bubble due to the easy money being made in the manipulated stock market that even guys like Warren Buffet says is due for a correction. When it corrects and the chickens come home to roost, so too will these modern high grade rookie cards that have skyrocketed.
<< <i>
<< <i>So less gold should buy more cards?
And in that sense it seems the bubble popped one Gretzky and Rose rookies a while ago.
For these 2 examples
And a PSA 10 Henderson in 2001 was what 5000(17 ounces of gold in 2001 value) and now 30,000 ( or 25 ounces of gold in todays value)
Which goes with the point it is a good investment in buying PSA 10s >>
No, cards like the Henderson are overpriced, and gold is undervalued. The high grade modern rookie cards are in a bubble due to the easy money being made in the manipulated stock market that even guys like Warren Buffet says is due for a correction. When it corrects and the chickens come home to roost, so too will these modern high grade rookie cards that have skyrocketed. >>
Cards like 1980 Henderson rookie are not modern cards and you would know if you have collected a long time. Most people refer to modern cards as late 1980's to now. Cards in the 80's like henderson rookie, bird magic, rice, etc were not mass produced like the ones beginning in the late 80's and early 90's.
<< <i>Agree sounds like sultan of swat is sour grapes and wishes he could have the 10 but since he can't or doesn't want to spend the big money he'll buy the more affordable 9 which according to him has more eye appeal and along the way insult the 10 owners. Although numerous examples in this thread have shown that the PSA 10 is generally the better investment compared to the 9, sultan of swat still doesn't get it. >>
I can buy pretty much what I want, but unlike some, I have not been duped in to the buy the holder game.
Sour grapes because I am trying to explain to you how to have 10's and not spend stupid amounts of money to get them? Laughable!
I am not talking about what is the better investment because I don't invest in baseball cards. It's a hobby. There are smarter things to invest money in with what this country is facing in the near future. Also, the modern high grade rookie cards are in a bubble. That is something some of you guys are having a hard time accepting, but the numbers don't lie.
It's like a friend of mine who went out and bought gold when it skyrocketed to $1900 an ounce. I told him it would correct and come down and to wait until it did. He wouldn't listen. He ended up spending more than a quarter of a million on gold at $1900 an ounce.