I paid $1,600 for my MS64 chop 1874-CC when the non chop price was around $10k. I paid $1,200 for my MS61 chop 1876-CC when the non chop price was around $10k as well. I got my MS63 chop 1877-CC from a Heritage sale in the same price range - another $10k coin with no chop.
<< <i>I find it a bit ironic that you note the ridiculous price paid by the current owner and then go ahead and list the coin for a similarly ridiculous price. If someone actually bought the coin and you buried them in it how would you respond?
The more appropriate approach to proving to the consignor that it is worth substancially less than they believe is to not represent them if they insist on listing the coin for such an astronomical price or to instead have them put the coin into a Heritage auction with an appropriate reserve. Im guessing the latter wouldnt work as Heritage wouldn't accept the reserve at the current asking price.
Debating the value of the coin, $4000, $7000 seems like a constructive debate. $28k! Really! >>
What does the owner have to lose by trying to get his/her/ their money back? If it doesn't sell one can always lower the price later. At that price, if one gets buried it it one has only himself to blame.
There are two sale prices for this coin. One for $28,000 in 2008 and one for about $7,000+ in 2004. Those are the facts, what are yours again? >>
Facts? Seems the first sale was just a buyback to create a price level...and there is no substantiation of the second sale.
As a dealer, I couldn't sleep at night if someone hit the BIN price on that coin...I know that one day it would come back to bite me in the arse. I can see the thread title now..,"dealer refuses to buy back coin he buried me in" >>
Using just a cursory look, I see nothing in the eBay listing or the dealer's website about guaranteeing to buy it back, unless of course the buyer exercises their return privileges.
Your customer satisfaction is our primary goal. Please take a look at what we have and we are sure you will find all items to be as described and listed for very reasonable prices.
I'd like to know what Crypto thinks, in all honesty. Then we might have an objective view. Now, in my opinion, since it's got the attention of one of the kings, maybe start that coin at a dollar. The right guy/gal will always buy it in a "fair auction". (except those who loathe ebay) Set the reserve at $28K. Start it at $.99. If it doesn't go, you know where to set the reserve next time. Voila . No problem.
It's ebay or the highway on the road of "do unto others". Remember what we "Do for others, too". (I'll take a 3% commission for my idea) via PayPow ™
<< <i>Your customer satisfaction is our primary goal. Please take a look at what we have and we are sure you will find all items to be as described and listed for very reasonable prices. P
Hmmmm. >>
Thanks for visiting the site. I do not think we have worked together before. I do recall you calling me one day many years ago asking if I as interested in buying some better ungraded Morgans for something close to full Sheet, and when I explained coins like that are better, for the buyer and the seller, purchased graded, you advised me to "learn how to grade and I should not be afraid of buying raw coins." I will admit I was a little flabbergasted after that call since I have bought hundreds of collections over the years and many of them with only raw coins, and even went on to be a grading instructor at the ANA, so I have no idea why you provided that advise. I am proud of the list of references I can provide of the families I have helped liquidate their holdings, many times AFTER they have had offers of full "buy-outs" from other dealers.
It is clear that I have offended you somehow, and for that I apologise, but for the record, we have no background in a transaction that I am aware of. I would ask that you think a bit more before you give advice to people you do not know, or who are not asking for it. But that is YOUR choice and really has little to do with me, who I am, or any experience we have had in the past.
Thanks for posting.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
<< <i>Your customer satisfaction is our primary goal. Please take a look at what we have and we are sure you will find all items to be as described and listed for very reasonable prices. P
Hmmmm. >>
Thanks for visiting the site. I do not think we have worked together before. I do recall you calling me one day many years ago asking if I as interested in buying some better ungraded Morgans for something close to full Sheet, and when I explained coins like that are better, for the buyer and the seller, purchased graded, you advised me to "learn how to grade and I should not be afraid of buying raw coins." I will admit I was a little flabbergasted after that call since I have bought hundreds of collections over the years and many of them with only raw coins, and even went on to be a grading instructor at the ANA, so I have no idea why you provided that advise. I am proud of the list of references I can provide of the families I have helped liquidate their holdings, many times AFTER they have had offers of full "buy-outs" from other dealers.
It is clear that I have offended you somehow, and for that I apologise, but for the record, we have no background in a transaction that I am aware of. I would ask that you think a bit more before you give advice to people you do not know, or who are not asking for it. But that is YOUR choice and really has little to do with me, who I am, or any experience we have had in the past.
Thanks for posting. >>
You have me confused with someone else. We have never spoken and I have never tried to sell any Morgans, ungraded or otherwise.
No offense past or present - other than the fact that you are willing to bury a potential buyer in that coin for many multiples of its true value. And are willing to do so using misleading information.
This is misleading. The grade is NOT ms64. The grade is ms64 chop marked. Any reference to ms64 alone leads one to a mistaken value. >>
Are these filled in via drop downs (I only sell non-coin items on eBay)? I ask because MS 64 Chop Marked may not have been an option. And both the title and the first picture say MS 64 Chop Marked. It seems quite clear to me.
If your goal is to point out greatly over-priced items eBay, you are probably going to be pretty busy... Loads of coins for sale that buyers could be buried in...
I took a look at the trade dollar auctions on ebay and noticed that there is only one chop mark coin being offered price $10k or higher.In fact,I didn't see any other chop mark trade $1 offerings until getting into $1500 area of price.
As far as pricing,i've had coins that I like too much and have put a high price on the piece (maybe triple market price).So what's a third of $28K.Little under $10k.I have seen many a coin in dealers case that is really "not for sale,but since you ask...."
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
<< <i>No offense past or present - other than the fact that you are willing to bury a potential buyer in that coin for many multiples of its true value. And are willing to do so using misleading information. >>
Relax, man. If someone wants to sell their coin for $1 that's worth $10k, it's their choice. If someone wants to buy a coin for $10k that's only 'worth' a dollar, again it's their choice. What's unethical about asking "too much" for a coin? Your idea of value is based on the current market. In 50 years, this coin might be worth $50k. Your argument seems irrelevant to me.
And by the way, the grade is MS64. The variety is Chop Mark. At least, according to PCGS.
Great looking coin. I'll just never understand why a $10 TrueView isn't added to coins that are worth thousands or tens of thousands.
<< <i>No worries. Maybe it'll be your relative that buys it and you can deal with the anguish. Happy collecting... >>
? Stop trying to be the judge of those would-be-transactions that you deem inappropriate. As was mentioned here already, whether you're spending 4k or 28k one should do his/her research and decide whether the coin is worth it. You of all people should respect the future buyer's perogative to decide what's what.
....and I'll mention again that this is a Make An Offer situation...so all of these histrionics are pointless...
<< <i>No worries. Maybe it'll be your relative that buys it and you can deal with the anguish. Happy collecting... >>
? Stop trying to be the judge of those would-be-transactions that you deem inappropriate. As was mentioned here already, whether you're spending 4k or 28k one should do his/her research and decide whether the coin is worth it. You of all people should respect the future buyer's perogative to decide what's what.
....and I'll mention again that this is a Make An Offer situation...so all of these histrionics are pointless... >>
How often have we heard horror stories of collectors getting fleeced by dealers, where (I'm making up this example) a dealer pays spot for a Stella from an elderly lady selling her deceased husband's stuff? That's an extreme made up example, I acknowledge. But, the point is that don't we care that the dealer marks a fair selling price for an item? I think that is the point that TDN and AMRC is trying to get across: what is a fair selling price. TDN asserts that AMRC's approach is not right, and AMRC says that he is just trying to find the right balance.
But, I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to voice a sincere belief that a selling price point is waaaay too high.
BTW, I'm in the camp that feels $28k is too high and that the eBay listing should start very low and have a reserve and see how close to the reserve it gets.
<< <i>No worries. Maybe it'll be your relative that buys it and you can deal with the anguish. Happy collecting... >>
? Stop trying to be the judge of those would-be-transactions that you deem inappropriate. As was mentioned here already, whether you're spending 4k or 28k one should do his/her research and decide whether the coin is worth it. You of all people should respect the future buyer's perogative to decide what's what.
....and I'll mention again that this is a Make An Offer situation...so all of these histrionics are pointless... >>
How often have we heard horror stories of collectors getting fleeced by dealers, where (I'm making up this example) a dealer pays spot for a Stella from an elderly lady selling her deceased husband's stuff? That's an extreme made up example, I acknowledge. But, the point is that don't we care that the dealer marks a fair selling price for an item? I think that is the point that TDN and AMRC is trying to get across: what is a fair selling price. TDN asserts that AMRC's approach is not right, and AMRC says that he is just trying to find the right balance.
But, I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to voice a sincere belief that a selling price point is waaaay too high.
BTW, I'm in the camp that feels $28k is too high and that the eBay listing should start very low and have a reserve and see how close to the reserve it gets.
EVP >>
I agree with the idea that a fair selling price is preferred. But in this case there isn't consensus around what "fair" means. And both sides have presented sincere arguments for their price points, whether we agree or not. Why is the "Make An Offer" component being completely ignored here? How many thousands of times has an item been listed for a very "high" price with Make An Offer and then eventually sold for an amount closer to "fair" market price? Bottomline there is nothing nefarious going on here.
Here is why I am a bit confused by AMRC's auction as well...
If I am not mistaken, AMRC came to these boards originally for advice so as to properly price this coin. When it was suggested by experts that the price might be between $3,500 and $7,000, AMRC made the point that it's consignor paid way more for the coin than that. When it was suggested that the price they paid was outrageous, AMRC made the point that the company selling it then got a judgment against it for over $4,000,000? Or, did I misunderstand that part? If I got that right, then after all that due diligence, why would AMRC also offer it for a similar buy it now price? Wouldn't the prudent thing be to pass on marketing the coin at that level (or at least only to do so with a great deal more information about the history contained in the offering)? Or, am I missing something? As always, just my two cents. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
wondercoin, I have respect for your levelheadedness through the years on this forum. Why is the Make An Offer feature here being ignored? As if AMRC is maliciously foisting this coin upon a vulnerable grandma down to her last few housing payments. In regards to the March post about this coin, it seemed clear that AMRC was genuine in his valuation opinion at that time. And, indeed, at that time TDN was also genuine in his contrary opinion. So? MAKE AN OFFER if interested otherwise...
<< <i>wondercoin, I have respect for your levelheadedness through the years on this forum. Why is the Make An Offer feature here being ignored? As if AMRC is maliciously foisting this coin upon a vulnerable grandma down to her last few housing payments. In regards to the March post about this coin, it seemed clear that AMRC was genuine in his valuation opinion at that time. And, indeed, at that time TDN was also genuine in his contrary opinion. So? MAKE AN OFFER if interested otherwise... >>
I appreciate your enthusiasm for repeating this point: a BIN is in place along with a Best Offer. Yet, even so- if I were to offer a hundred dollar Federal Reserve note with a BIN of $10,000 including a Best Offer I'm sure logical collectors would question my motive (especially if I started a thread here a couple weeks ago pretty declaring $10,000. is a fraudulent price for such a note).
SS - the problem with the Make an Offer is that it is pegged against $28k. The $28k is 4x to 6x too high. So someone offering 1/2 of the list price might think he's getting a bargain, when in fact he is not. How many folks do you know would make an offer that is 1/4 the list price?
Note that AMRC's verbiage about current offers is very curiously worded: AMRC has no doubt that if he were to accept current offers that the transaction would be completed. (I'm paraphrasing.) So, anyone who makes a crazy lowball offer relative to the list price (like 1/10) would of course complete the transaction. And, note that AMRC didn't say at what level he would accept such offers.
Usually, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck and not a moose.
And, to be clear, I'm not trying to cast aspersions on AMRC. Don't know him at all, and have no strong reason to think one way or another about him as a seller or otherwise. But, I think he's going about this the wrong way and runs a high risk of slamming someone.
braddick, fair enough, I am enthusiastic. I just believe that the conspiracy hype happening here is misplaced. I'm getting tendentious from typing and will now return to my hole (aka my gin and juice). I've got no dog in this fight other than the canine of justice against all persecution.
If somebody can afford to spend $28K on an item they clearly don't know the fair market value of, they get little sympathy from me. AMRC isn't doing anything that many respected coin dealers don't do every day, which is putting an "insane" price tag on a coin. Now, if a well-heeled novice collector came to him and he advised him to buy the coin at the listed price, I would have an issue with that.
No dog in the fight but was a sales manager for a signifacant co.:
Pretty good chance that AMRC burned the coin...for a long time. Not sure seeking marketing advice on this board is a good idea in a thinly traded area.
Seattleslammer... as Braddick notes as well (indirectly)... I am having a hard time adopting your position in lieu of the $4,000,000 judgment discussion previously. Can you see that tie in?
Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
While I have no dog in this race, it reminds me (somewhat) of a recent situation with regard to rare stamps -- man consigns an group of 1880's China stamps found in an attic in England (property of an 1880's missionary who had traveled/lived there at the time) -- at a local "we sell all" auction house, estimate is around 1,000 pounds or so (a WAG?)
Well-known London stamp dealer is "tipped off" (article is quite vague on this point -- exactly from whom, and how was the "tip" passed along) and happily ponies up 79,000 pounds for said rare group of Chinese stamps. Original consignor is reportedly "thrilled."
Same dealer successfully sells same group of stamps in a well-attended Hong Kong auction for better than a million dollars' profit over their original buy price. I assume they were similarly "thrilled."
Some claim a lawsuit should be forthcoming, most others on that board claim "hey, that's life."
-- most interesting reading. The one member here who frequently posts over there, is coinpictures, I believe. Would be interesting to get his take.
And yes, I know this isn't the stamp forum. Talk about your sleepy hollows...
<< <i>Seattleslammer... as Braddick notes as well (indirectly)... I am having a hard time adopting your position in lieu of the $4,000,000 judgment discussion previously. Can you see that tie in?
Wondercoin. >>
I hear you. I'm skeptical about the 4M number like anyone sane would be and see how it may color perception here. But I still don't view this is as a malicious listing on AMRC's part. It's not like it's a circulated Kennedy. It's a bonafide rarer mint Trade $ in nice plastic . I just can't help but think of all those 70 graded moderns that bring "insane" bucks compared to their 69 counterparts. Surely you can see that tie in, too.
Okay, I'm really going to dinner now. Thanks for the back and forth, it's fun to disagree amongst fellow coin geeks.
We also have no idea what role the consignee played in this. For all we know AMRC wanted to do the same strategy but with an $8K list, and the owner insisted on $28K to check the market. I could see the owner being hesitant to accept the word of a single dealer in a thinly traded market.
<< <i>We also have no idea what role the consignee played in this. For all we know AMRC wanted to do the same strategy but with an $8K list, and the owner insisted on $28K to check the market. I could see the owner being hesitant to accept the word of a single dealer in a thinly traded market. >>
I sent the owner this thread. He got a chuckle out of it. I am always as transparent as I can be, I am too old to keep "stories" straight.
722 Page views, 3 Offers, and one at significantly higher than the $4,000, and the it is not from a poor old widow. The poor old widow's family is my client. In fact, the person making the offer collect's Chopmarked trade dollars. This coin is worth more than $4,000. That was my point in March, and it is my point today. The advice given here originally was incorrect. For all of those looking for the plot, it has already been exposed. I am milking the coin for as much as I can so I can to get my clients as much of their money back as possible. Be it $4001 or $8,000 or $12,000 or $28,000. But I certainly would have been doing my clients a misdeed had I accepted the $4,000 offered to me back in March, based on some old published spreadsheet that had absolutely no supporting sales data to substantiate it that I could see.
Everyone is free to speak or think whatever they want. But if the tables were turned, and one of you sold this coin for $4,000 because someone "said" it was worth that with no empirical data, you are drinking kool-aide.
This thread is quite good and I do appreciate any and all views. Anyone who wants to see the coin is welcome to visit my booth in Long Beach this week, it will be at table 634. Come by and say hi.
MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
<< <i>We also have no idea what role the consignee played in this. For all we know AMRC wanted to do the same strategy but with an $8K list, and the owner insisted on $28K to check the market. I could see the owner being hesitant to accept the word of a single dealer in a thinly traded market. >>
I sent the owner this thread. He got a chuckle out of it. I am always as transparent as I can be, I am too old to keep "stories" straight.
722 Page views, 3 Offers, and one at significantly higher than the $4,000, and the it is not from a poor old widow. The poor old widow's family is my client. In fact, the person making the offer collect's Chopmarked trade dollars. This coin is worth more than $4,000. That was my point in March, and it is my point today. The advice given here originally was incorrect. For all of those looking for the plot, it has already been exposed. I am milking the coin for as much as I can so I can to get my clients as much of their money back as possible. Be it $4001 or $8,000 or $12,000 or $28,000. But I certainly would have been doing my clients a misdeed had I accepted the $4,000 offered to me back in March, based on some old published spreadsheet that had absolutely no supporting sales data to substantiate it that I could see.
Everyone is free to speak or think whatever they want. But if the tables were turned, and one of you sold this coin for $4,000 because someone "said" it was worth that with no empirical data, you are drinking kool-aide.
This thread is quite good and I do appreciate any and all views. Anyone who wants to see the coin is welcome to visit my booth in Long Beach this week, it will be at table 634. Come by and say hi. >>
Good, yourself and your customer are really all that matter. As long as you are honest about what you are offering (and you are), your goal is really nothing more than to get max value for your customer. The best way to do that always involves some armchair quarterbacking, but it makes for fun banter
I said I'd pay $3500 but I'm not in the market for the coin. And yes, the spreadsheet is old so $4,000 is out of date - but it's a data point. It's in the right order of magnitude- the real value is closer to $4k than $28k that's for sure.
As far as being too old to keep your stories straight - that's for sure. No idea where you got the one about me calling you about some raw Morgans....
Man, I hate when TDN cold calls me and tries to shove those raw "GEM +++" morgans down my throat. I don't want your dipped out AU crap bro, stop calling me
Comments
Those are smoe facts to chew on...
<< <i>I find it a bit ironic that you note the ridiculous price paid by the current owner and then go ahead and list the coin for a similarly ridiculous price. If someone actually bought the coin and you buried them in it how would you respond?
The more appropriate approach to proving to the consignor that it is worth substancially less than they believe is to not represent them if they insist on listing the coin for such an astronomical price or to instead have them put the coin into a Heritage auction with an appropriate reserve. Im guessing the latter wouldnt work as Heritage wouldn't accept the reserve at the current asking price.
Debating the value of the coin, $4000, $7000 seems like a constructive debate. $28k! Really! >>
What does the owner have to lose by trying to get his/her/ their money back? If it doesn't sell one can always lower the price later. At that price, if one gets buried it it one has only himself to blame.
<< <i>
<< <i>
There are two sale prices for this coin. One for $28,000 in 2008 and one for about $7,000+ in 2004. Those are the facts, what are yours again? >>
Facts? Seems the first sale was just a buyback to create a price level...and there is no substantiation of the second sale.
As a dealer, I couldn't sleep at night if someone hit the BIN price on that coin...I know that one day it would come back to bite me in the arse. I can see the thread title now..,"dealer refuses to buy back coin he buried me in" >>
Using just a cursory look, I see nothing in the eBay listing or the dealer's website about guaranteeing to buy it back, unless of course the buyer exercises their return privileges.
Hmmmm.
Year: 1875 Certification Number: 50046065
Composition: 90% Silver, 10% Copper Grade: MS 64
Certification: PCGS
This is misleading. The grade is NOT ms64. The grade is ms64 chop marked. Any reference to ms64 alone leads one to a mistaken value.
Previous Heritage sale link
BST transactions: dbldie55, jayPem, 78saen, UltraHighRelief, nibanny, liefgold, FallGuy, lkeigwin, mbogoman, Sandman70gt, keets, joeykoins, ianrussell (@GC), EagleEye, ThePennyLady, GRANDAM, Ilikecolor, Gluggo, okiedude, Voyageur, LJenkins11, fastfreddie, ms70, pursuitofliberty, ZoidMeister,Coin Finder, GotTheBug, edwardjulio, Coinnmore, Nickpatton, Namvet69,...
Set the reserve at $28K. Start it at $.99. If it doesn't go, you know where to set the reserve next time. Voila . No problem.
It's ebay or the highway on the road of "do unto others". Remember what we "Do for others, too". (I'll take a 3% commission for my idea) via PayPow ™
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Your customer satisfaction is our primary goal. Please take a look at what we have and we are sure you will find all items to be as described and listed for very reasonable prices. P
Hmmmm. >>
Thanks for visiting the site. I do not think we have worked together before. I do recall you calling me one day many years ago asking if I as interested in buying some better ungraded Morgans for something close to full Sheet, and when I explained coins like that are better, for the buyer and the seller, purchased graded, you advised me to "learn how to grade and I should not be afraid of buying raw coins." I will admit I was a little flabbergasted after that call since I have bought hundreds of collections over the years and many of them with only raw coins, and even went on to be a grading instructor at the ANA, so I have no idea why you provided that advise. I am proud of the list of references I can provide of the families I have helped liquidate their holdings, many times AFTER they have had offers of full "buy-outs" from other dealers.
It is clear that I have offended you somehow, and for that I apologise, but for the record, we have no background in a transaction that I am aware of. I would ask that you think a bit more before you give advice to people you do not know, or who are not asking for it. But that is YOUR choice and really has little to do with me, who I am, or any experience we have had in the past.
Thanks for posting.
<< <i>
<< <i>Your customer satisfaction is our primary goal. Please take a look at what we have and we are sure you will find all items to be as described and listed for very reasonable prices. P
Hmmmm. >>
Thanks for visiting the site. I do not think we have worked together before. I do recall you calling me one day many years ago asking if I as interested in buying some better ungraded Morgans for something close to full Sheet, and when I explained coins like that are better, for the buyer and the seller, purchased graded, you advised me to "learn how to grade and I should not be afraid of buying raw coins." I will admit I was a little flabbergasted after that call since I have bought hundreds of collections over the years and many of them with only raw coins, and even went on to be a grading instructor at the ANA, so I have no idea why you provided that advise. I am proud of the list of references I can provide of the families I have helped liquidate their holdings, many times AFTER they have had offers of full "buy-outs" from other dealers.
It is clear that I have offended you somehow, and for that I apologise, but for the record, we have no background in a transaction that I am aware of. I would ask that you think a bit more before you give advice to people you do not know, or who are not asking for it. But that is YOUR choice and really has little to do with me, who I am, or any experience we have had in the past.
Thanks for posting. >>
You have me confused with someone else. We have never spoken and I have never tried to sell any Morgans, ungraded or otherwise.
<< <i>Item specifics
Year: 1875 Certification Number: 50046065
Composition: 90% Silver, 10% Copper Grade: MS 64
Certification: PCGS
This is misleading. The grade is NOT ms64. The grade is ms64 chop marked. Any reference to ms64 alone leads one to a mistaken value. >>
Are these filled in via drop downs (I only sell non-coin items on eBay)? I ask because MS 64 Chop Marked may not have been an option. And both the title and the first picture say MS 64 Chop Marked. It seems quite clear to me.
If your goal is to point out greatly over-priced items eBay, you are probably going to be pretty busy... Loads of coins for sale that buyers could be buried in...
As far as pricing,i've had coins that I like too much and have put a high price on the piece (maybe triple market price).So what's a third of $28K.Little under $10k.I have seen many a coin in dealers case that is really "not for sale,but since you ask...."
The measure of intelligence is the ability to change.
Albert Einstein (14 March 1879--18 April 1955)
<< <i>I like your style, AMRC. You're doing the right thing for your client.
Lance. >>
But he really needs your photography skills!!
Dan
Did we enter the Twilight Zone?
I always thought the PCGS forum was above the "OMG L@@K at the price asked for this coin on eBay!!" type of threads. I guess I was sorely mistaken.
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My sets: [280+ horse coins] :: [France Sowers] :: [Colorful world copper] :: [Beautiful world coins]
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<< <i>No offense past or present - other than the fact that you are willing to bury a potential buyer in that coin for many multiples of its true value. And are willing to do so using misleading information. >>
Relax, man. If someone wants to sell their coin for $1 that's worth $10k, it's their choice. If someone wants to buy a coin for $10k that's only 'worth' a dollar, again it's their choice. What's unethical about asking "too much" for a coin? Your idea of value is based on the current market. In 50 years, this coin might be worth $50k. Your argument seems irrelevant to me.
And by the way, the grade is MS64. The variety is Chop Mark. At least, according to PCGS.
Great looking coin. I'll just never understand why a $10 TrueView isn't added to coins that are worth thousands or tens of thousands.
Check out my iPhone app SlabReader!
<< <i>No worries. Maybe it'll be your relative that buys it and you can deal with the anguish. Happy collecting... >>
?
Stop trying to be the judge of those would-be-transactions that you deem inappropriate.
As was mentioned here already, whether you're spending 4k or 28k one should do his/her research and decide whether the coin is worth it.
You of all people should respect the future buyer's perogative to decide what's what.
....and I'll mention again that this is a Make An Offer situation...so all of these histrionics are pointless...
<< <i>
<< <i>No worries. Maybe it'll be your relative that buys it and you can deal with the anguish. Happy collecting... >>
?
Stop trying to be the judge of those would-be-transactions that you deem inappropriate.
As was mentioned here already, whether you're spending 4k or 28k one should do his/her research and decide whether the coin is worth it.
You of all people should respect the future buyer's perogative to decide what's what.
....and I'll mention again that this is a Make An Offer situation...so all of these histrionics are pointless... >>
How often have we heard horror stories of collectors getting fleeced by dealers, where (I'm making up this example) a dealer pays spot for a Stella from an elderly lady selling her deceased husband's stuff? That's an extreme made up example, I acknowledge. But, the point is that don't we care that the dealer marks a fair selling price for an item? I think that is the point that TDN and AMRC is trying to get across: what is a fair selling price. TDN asserts that AMRC's approach is not right, and AMRC says that he is just trying to find the right balance.
But, I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to voice a sincere belief that a selling price point is waaaay too high.
BTW, I'm in the camp that feels $28k is too high and that the eBay listing should start very low and have a reserve and see how close to the reserve it gets.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>No worries. Maybe it'll be your relative that buys it and you can deal with the anguish. Happy collecting... >>
?
Stop trying to be the judge of those would-be-transactions that you deem inappropriate.
As was mentioned here already, whether you're spending 4k or 28k one should do his/her research and decide whether the coin is worth it.
You of all people should respect the future buyer's perogative to decide what's what.
....and I'll mention again that this is a Make An Offer situation...so all of these histrionics are pointless... >>
How often have we heard horror stories of collectors getting fleeced by dealers, where (I'm making up this example) a dealer pays spot for a Stella from an elderly lady selling her deceased husband's stuff? That's an extreme made up example, I acknowledge. But, the point is that don't we care that the dealer marks a fair selling price for an item? I think that is the point that TDN and AMRC is trying to get across: what is a fair selling price. TDN asserts that AMRC's approach is not right, and AMRC says that he is just trying to find the right balance.
But, I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to voice a sincere belief that a selling price point is waaaay too high.
BTW, I'm in the camp that feels $28k is too high and that the eBay listing should start very low and have a reserve and see how close to the reserve it gets.
EVP >>
I agree with the idea that a fair selling price is preferred. But in this case there isn't consensus around what "fair" means. And both sides have presented sincere arguments for their price points, whether we agree or not. Why is the "Make An Offer" component being completely ignored here? How many thousands of times has an item been listed for a very "high" price with Make An Offer and then eventually sold for an amount closer to "fair" market price? Bottomline there is nothing nefarious going on here.
If it was lamented that someone buried the current owner, it stands to reason that reburying someone else is not the right thing to do.
but, I'm not psychic and can't say what AMRC will do with it as it is now.
that's about all I have to say about that.
Just because the current owner is buried in the piece doesn't mean that someone else ought to be.
But anyone can put a coin on ebay and ask what they want. Kind of like trolling with a bare hook - you never know what you might snag....
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
<< <i>Put me in the camp that the price is way too high.
Just because the current owner is buried in the piece doesn't mean that someone else ought to be.
But anyone can put a coin on ebay and ask what they want. Kind of like trolling with a bare hook - you never know what you might snag.... >>
How can the price be "way too high" when it's Make An Offer !?!
Who hits Buy It Now when Make An Offer is available?
You guys?
If I am not mistaken, AMRC came to these boards originally for advice so as to properly price this coin. When it was suggested by experts that the price might be between $3,500 and $7,000, AMRC made the point that it's consignor paid way more for the coin than that. When it was suggested that the price they paid was outrageous, AMRC made the point that the company selling it then got a judgment against it for over $4,000,000? Or, did I misunderstand that part? If I got that right, then after all that due diligence, why would AMRC also offer it for a similar buy it now price? Wouldn't the prudent thing be to pass on marketing the coin at that level (or at least only to do so with a great deal more information about the history contained in the offering)? Or, am I missing something? As always, just my two cents. Wondercoin.
<< <i>wondercoin, I have respect for your levelheadedness through the years on this forum. Why is the Make An Offer feature here being ignored? As if AMRC is maliciously foisting this coin upon a vulnerable grandma down to her last few housing payments. In regards to the March post about this coin, it seemed clear that AMRC was genuine in his valuation opinion at that time. And, indeed, at that time TDN was also genuine in his contrary opinion. So? MAKE AN OFFER if interested otherwise... >>
I appreciate your enthusiasm for repeating this point: a BIN is in place along with a Best Offer.
Yet, even so- if I were to offer a hundred dollar Federal Reserve note with a BIN of $10,000 including a Best Offer I'm sure logical collectors would question my motive (especially if I started a thread here a couple weeks ago pretty declaring $10,000. is a fraudulent price for such a note).
Note that AMRC's verbiage about current offers is very curiously worded: AMRC has no doubt that if he were to accept current offers that the transaction would be completed. (I'm paraphrasing.) So, anyone who makes a crazy lowball offer relative to the list price (like 1/10) would of course complete the transaction. And, note that AMRC didn't say at what level he would accept such offers.
Usually, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then it's a duck and not a moose.
And, to be clear, I'm not trying to cast aspersions on AMRC. Don't know him at all, and have no strong reason to think one way or another about him as a seller or otherwise. But, I think he's going about this the wrong way and runs a high risk of slamming someone.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
I just believe that the conspiracy hype happening here is misplaced.
I'm getting tendentious from typing and will now return to my hole (aka my gin and juice).
I've got no dog in this fight other than the canine of justice against all persecution.
they get little sympathy from me. AMRC isn't doing anything that many respected coin dealers
don't do every day, which is putting an "insane" price tag on a coin. Now, if a well-heeled novice
collector came to him and he advised him to buy the coin at the listed price, I would have an issue
with that.
Pretty good chance that AMRC burned the coin...for a long time. Not sure seeking marketing advice on this board is a good idea in a thinly traded area.
JMO
Wondercoin.
Link to Chinese stamps find
Well-known London stamp dealer is "tipped off" (article is quite vague on this point -- exactly from whom, and how was the "tip" passed along) and happily ponies up 79,000 pounds for said rare group of Chinese stamps. Original consignor is reportedly "thrilled."
Same dealer successfully sells same group of stamps in a well-attended Hong Kong auction for better than a million dollars' profit over their original buy price. I assume they were similarly "thrilled."
Some claim a lawsuit should be forthcoming, most others on that board claim "hey, that's life."
-- most interesting reading. The one member here who frequently posts over there, is coinpictures, I believe. Would be interesting to get his take.
And yes, I know this isn't the stamp forum. Talk about your sleepy hollows...
<< <i>Seattleslammer... as Braddick notes as well (indirectly)... I am having a hard time adopting your position in lieu of the $4,000,000 judgment discussion previously. Can you see that tie in?
Wondercoin. >>
I hear you. I'm skeptical about the 4M number like anyone sane would be and see how it may color perception here. But I still don't view this is as a malicious listing on AMRC's part. It's not like it's a circulated Kennedy. It's a bonafide rarer mint Trade $ in nice plastic . I just can't help but think of all those 70 graded moderns that bring "insane" bucks compared to their 69 counterparts. Surely you can see that tie in, too.
Okay, I'm really going to dinner now. Thanks for the back and forth, it's fun to disagree amongst fellow coin geeks.
ohhhh boy. I wouldn't want to be in that position....
burnt no matter...
<< <i>We also have no idea what role the consignee played in this. For all we know AMRC wanted to do the same strategy but with an $8K list, and the owner insisted on $28K to check the market. I could see the owner being hesitant to accept the word of a single dealer in a thinly traded market. >>
I sent the owner this thread. He got a chuckle out of it. I am always as transparent as I can be, I am too old to keep "stories" straight.
722 Page views, 3 Offers, and one at significantly higher than the $4,000, and the it is not from a poor old widow. The poor old widow's family is my client. In fact, the person making the offer collect's Chopmarked trade dollars. This coin is worth more than $4,000. That was my point in March, and it is my point today. The advice given here originally was incorrect. For all of those looking for the plot, it has already been exposed. I am milking the coin for as much as I can so I can to get my clients as much of their money back as possible. Be it $4001 or $8,000 or $12,000 or $28,000. But I certainly would have been doing my clients a misdeed had I accepted the $4,000 offered to me back in March, based on some old published spreadsheet that had absolutely no supporting sales data to substantiate it that I could see.
Everyone is free to speak or think whatever they want. But if the tables were turned, and one of you sold this coin for $4,000 because someone "said" it was worth that with no empirical data, you are drinking kool-aide.
This thread is quite good and I do appreciate any and all views. Anyone who wants to see the coin is welcome to visit my booth in Long Beach this week, it will be at table 634. Come by and say hi.
<< <i> or $28,000. >>
<< <i>
<< <i>We also have no idea what role the consignee played in this. For all we know AMRC wanted to do the same strategy but with an $8K list, and the owner insisted on $28K to check the market. I could see the owner being hesitant to accept the word of a single dealer in a thinly traded market. >>
I sent the owner this thread. He got a chuckle out of it. I am always as transparent as I can be, I am too old to keep "stories" straight.
722 Page views, 3 Offers, and one at significantly higher than the $4,000, and the it is not from a poor old widow. The poor old widow's family is my client. In fact, the person making the offer collect's Chopmarked trade dollars. This coin is worth more than $4,000. That was my point in March, and it is my point today. The advice given here originally was incorrect. For all of those looking for the plot, it has already been exposed. I am milking the coin for as much as I can so I can to get my clients as much of their money back as possible. Be it $4001 or $8,000 or $12,000 or $28,000. But I certainly would have been doing my clients a misdeed had I accepted the $4,000 offered to me back in March, based on some old published spreadsheet that had absolutely no supporting sales data to substantiate it that I could see.
Everyone is free to speak or think whatever they want. But if the tables were turned, and one of you sold this coin for $4,000 because someone "said" it was worth that with no empirical data, you are drinking kool-aide.
This thread is quite good and I do appreciate any and all views. Anyone who wants to see the coin is welcome to visit my booth in Long Beach this week, it will be at table 634. Come by and say hi. >>
Good, yourself and your customer are really all that matter. As long as you are honest about what you are offering (and you are), your goal is really nothing more than to get max value for your customer. The best way to do that always involves some armchair quarterbacking, but it makes for fun banter
I said I'd pay $3500 but I'm not in the market for the coin. And yes, the spreadsheet is old so $4,000 is out of date - but it's a data point. It's in the right order of magnitude- the real value is closer to $4k than $28k that's for sure.
As far as being too old to keep your stories straight - that's for sure. No idea where you got the one about me calling you about some raw Morgans....