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Were there any surprises in the Pogue sale?
291fifth
Posts: 24,085 ✭✭✭✭✭
It appears that results were very strong. Were there any surprises in the results or new trends evident?
All glory is fleeting.
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291fifth
Posts: 24,085 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Better luck next time TO.
In general, the prices realized for the quarter eagles were very strong to extremely strong. The price for the 1808 was the least surprising of the results for the gold coins, regarding which I quote John Albanese, Scott Travers and Richard Burdick.
There many surprises for silver coins, strong prices and weak prices. Some dimes brought very strong prices and others brought weak prices. I discuss details. On the whole, the auction was certainly successful. I am surprised that there has not been more discussion of it in this forum.
The Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, Part 4: 18th Century Rarities Lead First Auction
The gold was especially strong and better than what I expected.
<< <i>Were there any surprises in the results or new trends evident? >>
I didn't win the 1802 bust half.
Lance.
I was inderbidder on the 1802 half ( a beaut of a coin), but found out later the winner would have gone a bunch higher than the 100,000 hammer.
No surprise that the 1801 in 63 brought a lot less than it did in 2009 at the Joe Thomas sale.
Lots of competition on most of the FH and draped bust- I almost did not win the 1805 in 61 as there was an attempted cut bid right after the auctioneer hammered it home for me. He stuck with my final bid-Thank you Sothebys!
They (stacks) need to give a device to the auctioneer that will serve as both the hammer and the lock to prevent bids off the internet.
<< <i>There is a lag between the hammer and someone entering the final bid to lock it
They (stacks) need to give a device to the auctioneer that will serve as both the hammer and the lock to prevent bids off the internet. >>
or ................. just hire someone as smart as the guys that developed HA's live bidding platform.
<< <i>I thought that several draped bust dimes from the Ed Price auction went somewhat weak. The quality of those coins are tops and I thought they were going to be strong but some went for less than I expected and others for about what I expected. The gold was especially strong and better than what I expected. >>
The Price sale was the very peak of the 1996-2008 market rise. Most of the US coin market has not returned to anywhere near those levels. And some of those Price coins have either been downgraded physically or mentally....especially the NGC coins which have been brutalized since CAC went into full operation in fall of 2008. And 7 years "fresh" is not as good as 10, 15, 20, 30 years fresh. Newman showed us what 40-80 years fresh can do for you. It's a quirky market at times where "fresh" can trump "stale quality." It's no longer about the coin itself. That train left the station a long time ago.
In the area of Early Dimes and Dimes, a well-known private specialist was extremely active.
In our subsequent musings, MrE and I conjectured that he might be, on any particular lot (choose any two)
1) bidding with his paddle
2) bidding on the internet from his laptop
3) bidding via Blue-Tooth to an agent also in the room.
4) listening to "The Voice"
Clearly he's taken a page from Laurie's book of "Secret Dealer Auction Tactics in Ancient Rome" and gone tech.
Does any one else have an opinion about how the 1808 stacks up against the 1796 No Stars?
In my "if I was a billionaire" bidding activity, which I spent 9 Mill at the sale, I would have paid 1.5 Mill for the coin, but I always overpay! Assuming I really liked the coin in hand. It didn't seem to photo that well. But on paper, it sure looks great, only a few UNC, this is the finest by 3 points. I liked Greg's article on the coin - he really liked it. PCGS has graded only three UNCS, two 61, and this 64.
It may be that the 1794 Half in UNC is rarer than the 1794 Dollar in UNC
PCGS has graded 6 UNC for the 1794 Dollar (including TDN's SP), and I think they all are unique. If TDN's coin is worth 10 Mill, the two 66+ are worth 5 Mill each, seems to me the finest by 3 points little brother Half in 64 would be worth at least a cool Million. I totally get the argument as to why its not, but in my mind, there was a lot of value with that purchase - and a heck of a nice coin.
Congrats to the owner. I guess Simpson.
Just my 2 cents, err 50 cents.
I will check my notes soon. I examined the Rogers 1796 'No Stars' QE in three different decades. Stack's sold it along with the Rogers-Whitney-Pogue 1796 half and the Rogers-Foxfire-Pogue 1797 half in Nov. 1995. ANR auctioned it in 2005 in NY. HA auctioned it in Jan. 2008 in Orlando. I believe that I found it to be of notably higher quality than the Pogue 1808.
TahoeDale: <<No surprise that the 1801 in 63 brought a lot less than it did in 2009 at the Joe Thomas sale.>>
Yes, Dale called it in advance, I remember. Before the sale, Dale implied that it was unlikely to come very close to the $184k level that was reached in April 2009. Even so, there seems to be a mystery to be solved. The emergence of the Newman 1801 in 2013 may have had some negative impact on the value of this one. But, coin markets were hitting rock bottom when this coin sold for $184k in 2009. I am surprised that it brought less than 150 this time. IMO, there is no doubt about the accuracy of the 63 grade.
SethChandler: << I would have paid 1.5 Mill for the coin, but I always overpay! Assuming I really liked the coin in hand. It didn't seem to photo that well. But on paper, it sure looks great, only a few UNC, this is the finest by 3 points. I liked Greg's article on the coin - he really liked it. PCGS has graded only three UNCS, two 61, and this 64.>>
I was figuring that 800k would be moderate and 1m would be strong, though a price realized of 1.1 would not have surprised me. I agree that this was one of the best values, among the leading coins, in this sale. It is a wonderful coin, which is of tremendous importance.
Finest Known 1794 Half Dollar, PCGS graded MS-64
<< <i>Some observations from the 6th row.
In the area of Early Dimes and Dimes, a well-known private specialist was extremely active.
In our subsequent musings, MrE and I conjectured that he might be, on any particular lot (choose any two)
1) bidding with his paddle
2) bidding on the internet from his laptop
3) bidding via Blue-Tooth to an agent also in the room.
4) listening to "The Voice"
Clearly he's taken a page from Laurie's book of "Secret Dealer Auction Tactics in Ancient Rome" and gone tech. >>
Hey Colonel Jessup - When I speak to you live, I can understand you. But what does this mean- I dont understand it??
If anyone understands his comments, then please assist.
My spirit guide (Robin Williams) often gives me words to speak of which I myself do not have full understanding. I am being force-fed in Esperanto. By someone who doesn't have a Redbook.
Some things actually on topic?
TDN got the '94 half at a bargain-basement price. Kudos ....
The Half Disme in MS64 might be the 8th finest known. Wholesome"B" coin which Pistareen bought it at a fair-to-strong price. Check PCGS auction prices for sales of other MS pieces over the last decade.
How about halfdollarnut? Unless that was already taken.
Congrats to TDN (HDN)!
<< <i>The Half Disme in MS64 might be the 8th finest known. Wholesome"B" coin which Pistareen bought it at a fair-to-strong price. Check PCGS auction prices for sales of other MS pieces over the last decade. >>
I was just the bidder, not the buyer. Just doing a favor for a friend.
Betts medals, colonial coins, US Mint medals, foreign coins found in early America, and other numismatic Americana
Dale: <<I was inderbidder on the 1802 half, but found out later the winner would have gone a bunch higher ... I almost did not win the 1805 in 61 ...>>
For the 1802, the competition might have been more for the holder, than the coin. It could pump a registry set. The result was strong. I think that Dale should be happy with the coin he did win. If, hypothetically, the Pogue 1802 and the Pogue 1805 were of the same date, I would much rather have the 1805, which is superior in terms of surface quality. IMO.
The Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, Part 4: 18th Century Rarities Lead First Auction
Interesting collection of comments
<< <i>So tradedollarnut now needs a new nickname?
How about halfdollarnut? Unless that was already taken.
Congrats to TDN (HDN)! >>
I didn't buy it - Legend bought it for a customer
back to TDN it is.
Colonel: <<The Half Disme in MS64 might be the 8th finest known. Wholesome"B" coin which Pistareen bought it at a fair-to-strong price. Check PCGS auction prices for sales of other MS pieces over the last decade. >>
Pistareen: <<I was just the bidder, not the buyer. Just doing a favor for a friend. >>
Perhaps for the best, while there were some excellent values in this auction, I am not sure that was one of them. Did the same friend bid on the James A. Stack 1797 dime? That 1797 is indisputably the finest known of a rare date and a great coin overall.
The Marvelous Pogue Family Coin Collection, Part 4: 18th Century Rarities Lead First Auction
Ms. Morrisine: <<Pumping registry sets with a holder and seeking more opinions outside the TPGs. ...Interesting collection of comments >>
As I have been carefully examining rarities and discussing them with leading experts for more than twenty years, I feel that it is appropriate for me to express opinions and to draw conclusions about coins, within reason. Moreover, I take care to include opinions from others in my writings and to communicate points about prevailing grading standards. Furthermore, I make clear to my readers that buying PCGS certified coins involves much less risk than purchasing non-certified coins. I am a believer in third party grading and I am a supporter of PCGS.
As PCGS CoinFacts indicates that two 1802 half dollars have been PCGS graded 62, with none higher, and zero at the MS-60 and MS-61 levels, it is very plausible that the acquisition of a PCGS graded MS-62 1802 could pump up the GPA and overall score of a registry set of DB, HE halves. I am not asserting that anyone has purchased an 1802 half for this purpose.
In the PCGS lawsuit against alleged coin doctors, several examples were provided of PCGS graded coins that had later been found out to be extensively or severely doctored, including the moving of metal. PCGS never claimed to be perfect and no one seriously expects PCGS to be perfect. For various reasons, it is a good idea for coin buyers to consult experts.
I appreciate the fact that members of this forum read my posts and my articles. Thank you.