<< <i>I really want to see the pictures. They will help us all understand what is going on with the coins and the grading. Unfortunately I have to believe that PCGS got it right unless I can see the coins. >>
Which of the 2 times did they get it right, the first time or the second time? >>
<< <i>Time to stop playing the crackout game and submit in the holder if you want to try for a higher grade. >>
True statement for PCGS coins.
Untrue statement for NGC coins. If you want the NGC upgrade you almost have to crack it out and start fresh. Just be sure the coin is not "baggable" or you could end up a lot worse off. Other exceptions might be older holders and stickered coins. Other than that I'd crack out most every MS64-67 NGC graded 19th to 20th century type coin and send them in to PCGS raw. 1/2 a grade lower at PCGS + sticker is worth about the same money as low end NGC a point higher.
Either the great deflation cycle has begun or some grader's girlfriend had a headache the night before!
>>
Simple explanation! Your coins were graded about 3:30-4:00 pm after the guys had cheesy bean burritos brought in for lunch!!! Eyes watering and they couldn't sit still.......
I used to ride herd on the only grading room in existence. People have good days and bad days. That's why we had every coin looked at by at least two people, and usually three. It helped catch the mistakes.
TD
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
"...over the years one constant rings true: there is always condemnation of PCGS and a refusal to accept responsibility for poor results."
This. Maybe the pieces were all end of the road grades and dollar signs trumped reality. If they were such lock upgrade candidates as claimed then why didn't the previous owners send them in for reconsideration? (Or maybe they did!)
Only crack coins out if you have major submitters eyeball them for worthiness. Why get extremely frustrated and spend $$$ for nothing? Dealers who are not doing significant numbers of submissions currently, are probably not qualified to make tough judgments as to how a coin may grade. At least a CAC sticker indicates percentage chance of possible upgrades.
Numismatist. 50 year member ANA. Winner of four ANA Heath Literary Awards; three Wayte and Olga Raymond Literary Awards; Numismatist of the Year Award 2009, and Lifetime Achievement Award 2020. Winner numerous NLG Literary Awards.
Coin 1) Cracked out a really sharp 1921-P Morgan PCGS MS65 that I felt was really nice for the grade and should at least go 65+, now it a 64 that I felt was really nice
Coin 2) Cracked out a really sharp fully prooflike 1921-D Morgan that was nearly a borderline DMPL as 21-D's go, lost the PL and it dropped a full grade point too. This one was a previous NGC 64PL and PCGS 64PL. nearly a borderline DMPL
Coin 3) A super nice 1880-S in a 66 PCGS holder that had extreme cameo contrast and 10+ eye appeal, should've at least gone 66+, was also a previous NGC 66+*, just got graded a 65. should've
Coin 4) Another super nice heavy cameo 1880-S that was also a 66 that is as nice or better than 5 or 6 other 80-S coins I have in 67. This one seemed to be an easy upgrade. Just got graded 65+. seemed to be an easy upgrade
I have learned that when it comes to grading MY coins I have to check any emotion at the door.
My dentist comes in to the shop. He brings a friend. The friend hands me a Morgan in an NGC holder and asks what I would pay for it. I looked it over and offered $19K. He said, "no thanks, I just paid $38K for this on ebay". I apologized for seeming like a cheap lowballing scum bag. He said, "I'll just crack it out and send it in to PCGS". By this my response was : "Please don't do that. Send it in for crossover , but DO NOT send it in raw if you think I'm wrong, go ahead "
I do not know what the outcome of that coin is. I don't concern myself with things of that nature, at a certain juncture or "level". To rich for my blood. His money, his eyes, his ideas. No skin off my nose. I am sorry to the OP for the "loss". It sucks and I feel for you.
Want them all you want, but look 2 messages above and you will see that Dragon has most likely been banned. He will not be able to login and produce any pictures.
<< <i>"...over the years one constant rings true: there is always condemnation of PCGS and a refusal to accept responsibility for poor results."
This. Maybe the pieces were all end of the road grades and dollar signs trumped reality. If they were such lock upgrade candidates as claimed then why didn't the previous owners send them in for reconsideration? (Or maybe they did!) >>
Perhaps the previous owners were oblivious to it. Maybe the current owner held them for a long time. IIRC the OP is a seasoned collector, but it would be helpful to know his track record over the years. I would think the newest newbie could go to a show, buy 4 random PCGS graded Morgans, crack them, submit them as raw and not have 4 losers.
Coin 1) Cracked out a really sharp 1921-P Morgan PCGS MS65 that I felt was really nice for the grade and should at least go 65+, now it a 64 that I felt was really nice
Coin 2) Cracked out a really sharp fully prooflike 1921-D Morgan that was nearly a borderline DMPL as 21-D's go, lost the PL and it dropped a full grade point too. This one was a previous NGC 64PL and PCGS 64PL. nearly a borderline DMPL
Coin 3) A super nice 1880-S in a 66 PCGS holder that had extreme cameo contrast and 10+ eye appeal, should've at least gone 66+, was also a previous NGC 66+*, just got graded a 65. should've
Coin 4) Another super nice heavy cameo 1880-S that was also a 66 that is as nice or better than 5 or 6 other 80-S coins I have in 67. This one seemed to be an easy upgrade. Just got graded 65+. seemed to be an easy upgrade
I have learned that when it comes to grading MY coins I have to check any emotion at the door. >>
When you play the crack out game be prepared to win sometimes and lose sometimes. Don't play if you can't stomach the possibility of losing.
Follow me on Twitter @wtcgroup Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
You still haven't fixed it...you are leaving the original HTTPS in there and adding the full HTTP// after that...that's where your link breaks.
FYI....the OP has created a NGC account and posted his cellphone pics of the coins over there. >>
Just now dragon did? Could've sworn he was a member there. Good enough reason to toddle over to SH.... >>
He was always a member (500+ posts) there just didn't post a lot recently. He will be a nice "re addition" there. Mark
Walker Proof Digital Album Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Yeah...I shouldn't have said "joined". I just never see him post there, so I said "joined". As stated, he has been a member since 2002. But, he did just post the pics when I mentioned it
PCGS is nuts right now. As I continue to say, things are not going on like they used to in Cali right now. Not sure the problem. I'm kinda concerned because I have a bunch of coins there right now.
<< <i>I came on to this message board today hoping to see something intersting but his thread is still atop next to Legend thread... >>
Maybe you could avail yourself of the search function.... assuming you haven't already read all of the thousands of threads that have been posted over the years. Might get you closer to your objective than trying to direct traffic on the forum.
this has been an entertaining and educational thread. there has been a concise explanation given about how a re-grade actually works that some members weren't aware of.
<< <i>You should have never cracked the coins. Why people think raw (cracked coins) coins have a better chance at upgrading I will never understand. >>
It seems like there is an actual consensus here on that point, but I don't think it's always been that way. About seven or eight years ago in a thread like this discussing the wisdom of PCGS crackouts, I suggested regrading is the way to go, and only one person chimed in... then it was settled by one of the prolific regulars of the time who asserted that the previous grade on a Regrade "is part of the final grade."
I dunno whether PCGS has taken up an education effort since then, or the state of the art in the grading game has changed, but I find it reassuring that we can actually trust what PCGS says of its own services. The people cracking out PCGS-graded coins for PCGS grading must believe there is something else going on behind the scenes.
at a PCGS F.U.N. Show luncheon Q&A back around 2002-3 HRH was quite clear when he advised submitters of the wisdom in sending under the re-grade service vs. cracking a coin out. I think it has probably taken till now for that advice to fully take hold since several members in this thread appear to agree. from MyLoftyPerch the crack/submit/crack/submit game tends to have a mainly negative influence on PCGS and collectors alike.
the notion that the "odds" of receiving a better grade increase when a coin is cracked vs. re-grade has "know" basis in fact. it strikes me as a sort of Numismatic Urban Legend along the lines of the set-up coin.
I'm surprised this thread hasn't deleted considering dragon has been banned. He started the same subject thread across the street.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
i was kinda wondering why the OP was banned, but judging from the heights to which he is jumping the shark ATS, I imagine our host may have based their decision on reasons beyond his single post starting his thread.
I think this is a pretty useful thread for PCGS, though, illustrating how not to submit coins.
<< <i>I'm surprised this thread hasn't deleted considering dragon has been banned. He started the same subject thread across the street. >>
We really don't know if it was this thread that did it or something said elsewhere. I think enough people have made some really good comments here about taking a risk as he did. Without some nice pictures we have to assume the coins were boarder line for the original grade and not PQ as Dragon had hoped.
If you read his own text over there, carefully, you will see that he said he asked to be removed.
I would encourage that anyone that wants to be serious about knowing what is going on, the fate of the coins, or anything other than piling on here, go there and see as he can post there.
I would also like to just clarify a couple things (mostly for the armchair quarterback contingent at that other forum which I asked to be deleted from.
That said, his approach would NOT be my approach. I don't have his problem and I wouldn't approach it by making threats, veiled or otherwise, against the organization....not on the phone, not in the forum.
a few quick thoughts after viewing the NGC thread.......................
1. after years of playing the "game" the OP is now apparently "done" with PCGS. 2. judging only from the pictures shown he may not have been hosed as bad as he thinks, though I doubt any member here who is posting there will man up and tell him. 3. I fail to understand the logic of having an account /membership at both NGC and PCGS to post at both forums. on more than a few occasions it has played out like this, a member being banned who goes there to rail against PCGS so as to extract their pound of flesh. 4. I expect that after things settle down we will hear the attendant replies about how valuable of a member dragon was, how badly he is missed, please bring him back BLAH BLAH BLAH.
maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't it seem that the better course of action is to accept things as they have transpired and move along??
<< <i>I'm surprised this thread hasn't deleted considering dragon has been banned. He started the same subject thread across the street. >>
I don't want to see ANYONE removed from here. Voices are good. Even those who oppose or call in to question. (personal opinion). We become better when we can face adversity or adversaries and who needs bones in the closet or dirt under the rug ? …. And let's not assume people who collect coins , and who are passionate people , are the enemies here.
That's what happened to the "good old days"…. People started getting "banned" for squaring off with others instead of dealing with the subject at hand: COINS.
Then we end up on the attack of the the integrity of the "business" instead of the nuances of the hobby. We are here now WHY delete educational threads ? We've lost a lot of good data mixed in with a lot of bad eggs.
<< <i>I'm surprised this thread hasn't deleted considering dragon has been banned. He started the same subject thread across the street. >>
I don't want to see ANYONE removed from here. Voices are good. Even those who oppose or call in to question. (personal opinion). We become better when we can face adversity or adversaries and who needs bones in the closet or dirt under the rug ? …. And let's not assume people who collect coins , and who are passionate people , are the enemies here.
That's what happened to the "good old days"…. People started getting "banned" for squaring off with others instead of dealing with the subject at hand: COINS.
Then we end up on the attack of the the integrity of the "business" instead of the nuances of the hobby. We are here now WHY delete educational threads ? We've lost a lot of good data mixed in with a lot of bad eggs. >>
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
I just went to the NGC forum to catch up on the latest developments. This bullet from dragon caught my eye:
c) As a normally calm, laid back and logically thinking individual, I am going out of my way to make a big fuss in this instance because I feel that the grading service not only damaged my property, but also assigned grades to my coins completely inconsistent with their standards, and at least 2 of these coins were previously very recently graded in their newest generation acrylic holders. This clearly demonstrates that grading standards can and do change in very short order.
--------------
By sending "very recently graded" coins back in, he was counting on grading standards changing in very short order. The dude shot himself in the foot by cracking the coins, and the entire blame for this fiasco lies with him. End of story.
Comments
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>I really want to see the pictures. They will help us all understand what is going on with the coins and the grading. Unfortunately I have to believe that PCGS got it right unless I can see the coins. >>
Which of the 2 times did they get it right, the first time or the second time? >>
Are neither and both viable answers?
Quite probably, yes.
<< <i>Time to stop playing the crackout game and submit in the holder if you want to try for a higher grade. >>
True statement for PCGS coins.
Untrue statement for NGC coins. If you want the NGC upgrade you almost have to crack it out and start fresh. Just be sure the coin is not "baggable" or you could end up a lot worse off. Other exceptions might be older holders and stickered coins. Other than that I'd crack out most every MS64-67 NGC graded 19th to 20th century type coin and send them in to PCGS raw. 1/2 a grade lower at PCGS + sticker is worth about the same money as low end NGC a point higher.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
Last Visited On: March 20th, 2015 12:35 PM
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>gra-de-flation? >>
Either the great deflation cycle has begun or some grader's girlfriend had a headache the night before!
Simple explanation! Your coins were graded about 3:30-4:00 pm after the guys had cheesy bean burritos brought in for lunch!!! Eyes watering and they couldn't sit still.......
TD
This. Maybe the pieces were all end of the road grades and dollar signs trumped reality. If they were such lock upgrade candidates as claimed then why didn't the previous owners send them in for reconsideration?
(Or maybe they did!)
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>The question I don't see people asking.....is Dragon still even around??
Last Visited On: March 20th, 2015 12:35 PM >>
Bammed message detected.
Coin 1) Cracked out a really sharp 1921-P Morgan PCGS MS65 that I felt was really nice for the grade and should at least go 65+, now it a 64
that I felt was really nice
Coin 2) Cracked out a really sharp fully prooflike 1921-D Morgan that was nearly a borderline DMPL as 21-D's go, lost the PL and it dropped a full grade point too. This one was a previous NGC 64PL and PCGS 64PL.
nearly a borderline DMPL
Coin 3) A super nice 1880-S in a 66 PCGS holder that had extreme cameo contrast and 10+ eye appeal, should've at least gone 66+, was also a previous NGC 66+*, just got graded a 65.
should've
Coin 4) Another super nice heavy cameo 1880-S that was also a 66 that is as nice or better than 5 or 6 other 80-S coins I have in 67. This one seemed to be an easy upgrade. Just got graded 65+.
seemed to be an easy upgrade
I have learned that when it comes to grading MY coins I have to check any emotion at the door.
Dozens of BST deals completed, including: kalshacon, cucamongacoin, blu62vette, natetrook, JGNumismatics, Coinshowman, DollarAfterDollar, timbuk3, jimdimmick & many more
My dentist comes in to the shop. He brings a friend. The friend hands me a Morgan in an NGC holder and asks what I would pay for it. I looked it over and offered $19K. He said, "no thanks, I just paid $38K for this on ebay".
I apologized for seeming like a cheap lowballing scum bag.
He said, "I'll just crack it out and send it in to PCGS". By this my response was : "Please don't do that. Send it in for crossover , but DO NOT send it in raw if you think I'm wrong, go ahead "
I do not know what the outcome of that coin is. I don't concern myself with things of that nature, at a certain juncture or "level". To rich for my blood.
His money, his eyes, his ideas. No skin off my nose. I am sorry to the OP for the "loss". It sucks and I feel for you.
<< <i>We want pics!!! >>
Want them all you want, but look 2 messages above and you will see that Dragon has most likely been banned. He will not be able to login and produce any pictures.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>"...over the years one constant rings true: there is always condemnation of PCGS and a refusal to accept responsibility for poor results."
This. Maybe the pieces were all end of the road grades and dollar signs trumped reality. If they were such lock upgrade candidates as claimed then why didn't the previous owners send them in for reconsideration?
(Or maybe they did!) >>
Perhaps the previous owners were oblivious to it. Maybe the current owner held them for a long time. IIRC the OP is a seasoned collector, but it would be helpful to know his track record over the years. I would think the newest newbie could go to a show, buy 4 random PCGS graded Morgans, crack them, submit them as raw and not have 4 losers.
Well, I can't make the link work so do a search for the keyword 1880-S by author dragon.
Thanks Bochiman
Server not found..........I give up.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>Is this one of the 1880-S's? Link fixed again >>
You still haven't fixed it...you are leaving the original HTTPS in there and adding the full HTTP// after that...that's where your link breaks.
FYI....the OP has created a NGC account and posted his cellphone pics of the coins over there.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>some interesting choice of words in the OP.
Coin 1) Cracked out a really sharp 1921-P Morgan PCGS MS65 that I felt was really nice for the grade and should at least go 65+, now it a 64
that I felt was really nice
Coin 2) Cracked out a really sharp fully prooflike 1921-D Morgan that was nearly a borderline DMPL as 21-D's go, lost the PL and it dropped a full grade point too. This one was a previous NGC 64PL and PCGS 64PL.
nearly a borderline DMPL
Coin 3) A super nice 1880-S in a 66 PCGS holder that had extreme cameo contrast and 10+ eye appeal, should've at least gone 66+, was also a previous NGC 66+*, just got graded a 65.
should've
Coin 4) Another super nice heavy cameo 1880-S that was also a 66 that is as nice or better than 5 or 6 other 80-S coins I have in 67. This one seemed to be an easy upgrade. Just got graded 65+.
seemed to be an easy upgrade
I have learned that when it comes to grading MY coins I have to check any emotion at the door. >>
keets, you are right on!!!!!
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>When you play the crack out game be prepared to win sometimes and lose sometimes. Don't play if you can't stomach the possibility of losing. >>
Exactly why I never crack out coins before submitting them for grading again. I am definitely not a gambler.
<< <i>
<< <i>Is this one of the 1880-S's? Link fixed again >>
You still haven't fixed it...you are leaving the original HTTPS in there and adding the full HTTP// after that...that's where your link breaks.
FYI....the OP has created a NGC account and posted his cellphone pics of the coins over there. >>
Just now dragon did? Could've sworn he was a member there. Good enough reason to toddle over to SH....
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is this one of the 1880-S's? Link fixed again >>
You still haven't fixed it...you are leaving the original HTTPS in there and adding the full HTTP// after that...that's where your link breaks.
FYI....the OP has created a NGC account and posted his cellphone pics of the coins over there. >>
Just now dragon did? Could've sworn he was a member there. Good enough reason to toddle over to SH.... >>
Been a member since 2002
My Original Song Written to my late wife-"Plus other original music by me"
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PL8A11CC8CC6093D80
https://n1m.com/bobbysmith1
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Is this one of the 1880-S's? Link fixed again >>
You still haven't fixed it...you are leaving the original HTTPS in there and adding the full HTTP// after that...that's where your link breaks.
FYI....the OP has created a NGC account and posted his cellphone pics of the coins over there. >>
Just now dragon did? Could've sworn he was a member there. Good enough reason to toddle over to SH.... >>
He was always a member (500+ posts) there just didn't post a lot recently. He will be a nice "re addition" there. Mark
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
As stated, he has been a member since 2002. But, he did just post the pics when I mentioned it
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>When you play the crack out game be prepared to win sometimes and lose sometimes. Don't play if you can't stomach the possibility of losing. >>
Exactly why I never crack out coins before submitting them for grading again. I am definitely not a gambler. >>
But Mozin, if you had a body-bagged coin you knew was problem-free wouldn't you crack it before resubmitting?
Lance.
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>When you play the crack out game be prepared to win sometimes and lose sometimes. Don't play if you can't stomach the possibility of losing. >>
Exactly why I never crack out coins before submitting them for grading again. I am definitely not a gambler. >>
But Mozin, if you had a body-bagged coin you knew was problem-free wouldn't you crack it before resubmitting?
Lance. >>
Should it matter? If you accept any grade, wouldn't PCGS crack it out and grade the coin as any other raw submission?
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>When you play the crack out game be prepared to win sometimes and lose sometimes. Don't play if you can't stomach the possibility of losing. >>
Exactly why I never crack out coins before submitting them for grading again. I am definitely not a gambler. >>
But Mozin, if you had a body-bagged coin you knew was problem-free wouldn't you crack it before resubmitting?
Lance. >>
Should it matter? If you accept any grade, wouldn't PCGS crack it out and grade the coin as any other raw submission? >>
Maybe PCGS wouldn't be influenced by their prior bodybag decision, maybe they would.
But tell me, what's the downside to cracking and submitting it raw? It's not like you could do worse.
Lance.
Guys/Gals, really, it is what it is...there is no vindication. Move on ... It will be good for yor psyche
I came on to this message board today hoping to see something intersting but his thread is still atop next to Legend thread...
Let's let them move down, expire
<< <i>I came on to this message board today hoping to see something intersting but his thread is still atop next to Legend thread... >>
Maybe you could avail yourself of the search function.... assuming you haven't already read all
of the thousands of threads that have been posted over the years. Might get you closer to your
objective than trying to direct traffic on the forum.
<< <i>You should have never cracked the coins. Why people think raw (cracked coins) coins have a better chance at upgrading I will never understand. >>
It seems like there is an actual consensus here on that point, but I don't think it's always been that way. About seven or eight years ago in a thread like this discussing the wisdom of PCGS crackouts, I suggested regrading is the way to go, and only one person chimed in... then it was settled by one of the prolific regulars of the time who asserted that the previous grade on a Regrade "is part of the final grade."
I dunno whether PCGS has taken up an education effort since then, or the state of the art in the grading game has changed, but I find it reassuring that we can actually trust what PCGS says of its own services. The people cracking out PCGS-graded coins for PCGS grading must believe there is something else going on behind the scenes.
the notion that the "odds" of receiving a better grade increase when a coin is cracked vs. re-grade has "know" basis in fact. it strikes me as a sort of Numismatic Urban Legend along the lines of the set-up coin.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
I think this is a pretty useful thread for PCGS, though, illustrating how not to submit coins.
<< <i>I'm surprised this thread hasn't deleted considering dragon has been banned. He started the same subject thread across the street. >>
We really don't know if it was this thread that did it or something said elsewhere. I think enough people have made some really good comments here about taking a risk as he did. Without some nice pictures we have to assume the coins were boarder line for the original grade and not PQ as Dragon had hoped.
<< <i>I'm surprised this thread hasn't deleted considering dragon has been banned. He started the same subject thread across the street. >>
Lesson to the crack outs.
I would encourage that anyone that wants to be serious about knowing what is going on, the fate of the coins, or anything other than piling on here, go there and see as he can post there.
I would also like to just clarify a couple things (mostly for the armchair quarterback contingent at that other forum which I asked to be deleted from.
That said, his approach would NOT be my approach. I don't have his problem and I wouldn't approach it by making threats, veiled or otherwise, against the organization....not on the phone, not in the forum.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
1. after years of playing the "game" the OP is now apparently "done" with PCGS.
2. judging only from the pictures shown he may not have been hosed as bad as he thinks, though I doubt any member here who is posting there will man up and tell him.
3. I fail to understand the logic of having an account /membership at both NGC and PCGS to post at both forums. on more than a few occasions it has played out like this, a member being banned who goes there to rail against PCGS so as to extract their pound of flesh.
4. I expect that after things settle down we will hear the attendant replies about how valuable of a member dragon was, how badly he is missed, please bring him back BLAH BLAH BLAH.
maybe I'm wrong, but doesn't it seem that the better course of action is to accept things as they have transpired and move along??
<< <i>I'm surprised this thread hasn't deleted considering dragon has been banned. He started the same subject thread across the street. >>
I don't want to see ANYONE removed from here. Voices are good. Even those who oppose or call in to question. (personal opinion).
We become better when we can face adversity or adversaries and who needs bones in the closet or dirt under the rug ?
…. And let's not assume people who collect coins , and who are passionate people , are the enemies here.
That's what happened to the "good old days"…. People started getting "banned" for squaring off with others instead of dealing with the subject at hand: COINS.
Then we end up on the attack of the the integrity of the "business" instead of the nuances of the hobby.
We are here now WHY delete educational threads ? We've lost a lot of good data mixed in with a lot of bad eggs.
I do not like them Joe-I-am!!
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm surprised this thread hasn't deleted considering dragon has been banned. He started the same subject thread across the street. >>
I don't want to see ANYONE removed from here. Voices are good. Even those who oppose or call in to question. (personal opinion).
We become better when we can face adversity or adversaries and who needs bones in the closet or dirt under the rug ?
…. And let's not assume people who collect coins , and who are passionate people , are the enemies here.
That's what happened to the "good old days"…. People started getting "banned" for squaring off with others instead of dealing with the subject at hand: COINS.
Then we end up on the attack of the the integrity of the "business" instead of the nuances of the hobby.
We are here now WHY delete educational threads ? We've lost a lot of good data mixed in with a lot of bad eggs. >>
Great transactions with oih82w8, JasonGaming, Moose1913.
c) As a normally calm, laid back and logically thinking individual, I am going out of my way to make a big fuss in this instance because I feel that the grading service not only damaged my property, but also assigned grades to my coins completely inconsistent with their standards, and at least 2 of these coins were previously very recently graded in their newest generation acrylic holders. This clearly demonstrates that grading standards can and do change in very short order.
--------------
By sending "very recently graded" coins back in, he was counting on grading standards
changing in very short order. The dude shot himself in the foot by cracking the coins, and the
entire blame for this fiasco lies with him. End of story.
EDIT: Emphasis mine in the quoted text.
I wonder how many accusations PCGS hears every year of causing damage, allowing tampering, etc.