1909 S VDB PCGS MS60

runningman · February 19, 2015 2:34AM

I keep looking at this coin on ebay, it looks great and I think I'm going to pull the trigger but I thought I would get some opinions here first.

drwstr123 · February 19, 2015 2:39AM

LINKY

291fifth · February 19, 2015 2:54AM

Poor quality photos. Why a "60"? Save your money.

RCDB · February 19, 2015 3:07AM

Why, indeed. There are so many better looking au58s available and cheaper. Look at Heritage history and then watch and wait.

commoncents05 · February 19, 2015 3:11AM

You guys are rough. Price is fair and the coin is clearly better than a 60.

-Paul

drwstr123 · February 19, 2015 3:16AM

IMHO it's a nice coin at a fair price...

braddick · February 19, 2015 3:30AM

I agree. Attractive coin at a more than reasonable price.

GoldenEyeNumismatics · February 19, 2015 3:51AM

<< You guys are rough. Price is fair and the coin is clearly better than a 60.

-Paul >>

I think it is ambitious to say it is "clearly better than a 60."

From the pictures, it looks clearly better, which is what concerns me. From the images, I would have guessed the coin was a 63 or 64.

The 60 grade is often reserved for a nice coin that has some sort of substantial problem. The coin was nice enough that graders wanted to reward it with a straight grade, but the 60 is a big red flag that there is something wrong. My guess is there is substantial hairlining, or that a sizable spot has been visibly removed.

nencoin · February 19, 2015 3:55AM

From the images, this is a nice looking coin at a very fair price. It even looks like it might have some color to it; hard to tell for sure with the lighting. Seller has a return privilege, so I see no downside. If it looks awful in hand, return it.

ScarsdaleCoin · February 19, 2015 4:03AM

be careful posting a what do you think...Ive seen several times someone pulls the rug out from under you...

crypto79 · February 19, 2015 4:09AM

<< 

<< You guys are rough. Price is fair and the coin is clearly better than a 60.

-Paul >>

I think it is ambitious to say it is "clearly better than a 60."

From the pictures, it looks clearly better, which is what concerns me. From the images, I would have guessed the coin was a 63 or 64.

The 60 grade is often reserved for a nice coin that has some sort of substantial problem. The coin was nice enough that graders wanted to reward it with a straight grade, but the 60 is a big red flag that there is something wrong. My guess is there is substantial hairlining, or that a sizable spot has been visibly removed. >>

literally took the words out of my mouth. Once again GEN proves wise beyond his years

Shamika · February 19, 2015 4:33AM

That coin looks almost too good to be a 60. Be careful.

Wabbit2313 · February 19, 2015 4:43AM

<< be careful posting a what do you think...Ive seen several times someone pulls the rug out from under you... >>

The fact that no one did pull the rug out should be his answer!

Coppercolor · February 19, 2015 12:59PM

Isn't there something you all find suspicious about the discoloration of the high points on the obverse?

cmerlo1 · February 19, 2015 1:01PM

I'm guessing there are scattered hairlines, not concentrated enough to get a 'genuine' designation.

Twobitcollector · February 19, 2015 8:47PM

<< 

<< be careful posting a what do you think...Ive seen several times someone pulls the rug out from under you... >>

The fact that no one did pull the rug out should be his answer!

>>

AMEN

BillJones · February 19, 2015 10:14PM

I see dull spots in the obverse fields, especially in front of Lincoln's portrait. As such some might label this piece as a "slider" that is really not quite Mint State.

Another interesting fact is that the price is less than Gray Sheet "bid" which is $1,300 for an MS-60. An MS-63 is only $50 more, which leads one to ask, why buy the MS-60 when you can have a coin with fewer issues for a small increase in price?

Shortgapbob · February 19, 2015 10:18PM

Looks choice+. So it probably has some high point rub and isn't truly "new". 60 is a weird grade, as these usually grade 58 or 62.

Coin is priced fairly.

derryb · February 19, 2015 10:21PM

hold out for better eye appeal

runningman · February 20, 2015 12:44AM

Based on the info, I'll pass. My set is xf to unc so a 60 would fit right in. Bill Jones, I hear you about bid but I don't think many dealers are selling this key in 63 any where near bid at least none on ebay.

Broadstruck · February 20, 2015 12:50AM

Based on the pics I like that 1909-S and would have no issues taking a change on seeing it in hand

There's no downfall as with trace red & bluish patina on lustrous surfaces...

Worst case scenario if it doesn't upgrade it would still be worth much more in a AU58 holder then MS60

drei3ree · February 20, 2015 2:25AM

"Hassle-Free Returns" allows you to return the coin at NO cost. That said, I doubt there are many MS60's that are a "good buy."

Unknown · February 20, 2015 2:27AM

This content has been removed.

Ajjohnson77 · February 20, 2015 2:43AM

Nice looking coin at a reasonable price, IMO.

coinbuf · February 20, 2015 2:58AM

<< 

<< Another interesting fact is that the price is less than Gray Sheet "bid" which is $1,300 for an MS-60. An MS-63 is only $50 more, which leads one to ask, why buy the MS-60 when you can have a coin with fewer issues for a small increase in price? >>

Never understood this myself. Why a low MS when you can get a much nicer example for maybe 5-10% more money? >>

And just where do you think your going to find a nice MS63 for 5-10% more?

Maybe you have a great connection to get these deals but finding a nice 63 under $1500 would be a steal, there are AU58's with asking prices higher than this coin.

As to the op's question the photos are not great but the coin looks to be softly struck which could account for the grade. For the cost of $0 dollars I would personally take a look at it in-hand before I say no, but that is a decision only you can make.

BillJones · February 20, 2015 3:02AM

<< 

<< 

<< Another interesting fact is that the price is less than Gray Sheet "bid" which is $1,300 for an MS-60. An MS-63 is only $50 more, which leads one to ask, why buy the MS-60 when you can have a coin with fewer issues for a small increase in price? >>

Never understood this myself. Why a low MS when you can get a much nicer example for maybe 5-10% more money? >>

And just where do you think your going to find a nice MS63 for 5-10% more?

Maybe you have a great connection to get these deals but finding a nice 63 under $1500 would be a steal, there are AU58's with asking prices higher than this coin.

As to the op's question the photos are not great but the coin looks to be softly struck which could account for the grade. For the cost of $0 dollars I would personally take a look at it in-hand before I say no, but that is a decision only you can make. >>

When I was dealer the 1909-S-VDB was higher priced item that usually yielded a poor return when you sold it. In other words, you couldn't buy it a decent wholesale price so that you could sell it for a decent mark-up. For that reason I only handled them on a want list basis.

crypto79 · February 20, 2015 3:06AM

<< 

<< Another interesting fact is that the price is less than Gray Sheet "bid" which is $1,300 for an MS-60. An MS-63 is only $50 more, which leads one to ask, why buy the MS-60 when you can have a coin with fewer issues for a small increase in price? >>

Never understood this myself. Why a low MS when you can get a much nicer example for maybe 5-10% more money? >>

Isn't that the name of the game? One can always get a little more for a little more money, really indifferent of the subject matter of what one is talking about.

Have to draw the line somewhere

Walkerfan · February 20, 2015 1:25PM

That coin definitely looks to have some issues in the fields and it's dull, too. Frankly, I wouldn't buy anything in MS 60. I'd go after that 63 if I were you.

rhedden · February 20, 2015 1:33PM

Some of you want to assume it's worse than an AU58, and some want to assume it's better than MS60. Consider the amazing possibility that it is actually an MS60 that is worth MS60 money (slightly more than AU58, less than MS63). After all, PCGS graded it MS60, and they had the coin in front of them with good lighting.

rhedden · February 20, 2015 1:34PM

.

DIMEMAN · February 20, 2015 1:35PM

It looks nice....no spots or marks. I hate spots and marks.....and I see them on coins graded 64 and 65.

I would rather have a little rub than spots anyday!!

sowolf · February 20, 2015 8:50PM

Too funny... I saw this post and realized it is one of my coins you are talking about. To address some of the concerns posted...

The coin does not have any hairlines.
The coin does have color - which is why I think PCGS gave it a 60. Might regrade at 62 if resubmitted.
The coin has great detail and very nice surfaces but it is a slightly softer strike.
Yes, I do need to invest in a better camera - I apologize.
I bought it from another dealer (already holdered) for a great deal which is why I have it priced nicely... and I don't believe in overpricing things if I can help it (unless I overpaid for something) - If I can pass on the savings... I do.
... and yes I do unconditionally guarantee any coin I sell because I believe collecting should be fun... and I know it isn't fun when you get a coin in hand and you don't like it... it is impossible to tell all of the qualities of a coin based on photos.

If you have any questions about any coin I have please don't hesitate to let me know... I will try my best to answer any question as accurately as possible.

I am new to dealing coins - only about 2-3 years now (have collected for a number of years)... and still learning many of the ropes to dealing ... but I am not new to business (30+ years) and figure the best thing I can do is to listen to my customers and people that are knowledgeable in the profession - and I welcome any constructive criticism.

PS - This is truly a great board and resource.

Thank you.

Glenn-

1909 S VDB PCGS MS60

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