PCGS frowns upon fake coin submissions?

vpr · January 20, 2015 8:24AM

Took a few coins to a major dealer today and he said one of them is a fake. I insisted that he submit it anyway and he said that PCGS gives them sh*t for submitting fakes and he refused to even take it. It wasn't an obvious fake (it did look like a very high grade) because I purchased the piece from a very reputed dealer and both of us didn't suspect that it was a fake.

winky · January 20, 2015 8:32AM

We all better hope that they keep on frowning with fakes.

lasvegasteddy · January 20, 2015 8:34AM

<< We all better hope that they keep on frowning with fakes. >>

^^^ this^^^

i throw them away in the trash hopefully to never again surface

MGLICKER · January 20, 2015 8:39AM

Sounds like a competent and conscientious dealer.

CaptHenway · January 20, 2015 8:44AM

This disturbs me. A collector should have the right to get an opinion on authenticity.

PerryHall · January 20, 2015 8:46AM

<< Took a few coins to a major dealer today and he said one of them is a fake. I insisted that he submit it anyway and he said that PCGS gives them sh*t for submitting fakes and he refused to even take it. It wasn't an obvious fake (it did look like a very high grade) because I purchased the piece from a very reputed dealer and both of us didn't suspect that it was a fake. >>

Can we get a pic of this coin? I'd get some other opinions. I had a gold coin that a dealer said was fake. I later got it slabbed by PCGS.

Cameonut · January 20, 2015 9:22AM

You would think that PCGS would be more than willing to accept grading fees to confirm a coin is a fake.

I recognize that this is an issue that dissatisfies customers, but I would rather hear the word "fake" from PCGS than some dealer. The dealer ought to tell the customer the coin is fake and let the customer decide whether to invest in a second opinion.

StrikeOutXXX · January 20, 2015 9:24AM

<< 

<< We all better hope that they keep on frowning with fakes. >>

^^^ this^^^

i throw them away in the trash hopefully to never again surface >>

Yikes - Imagine if George Walton or his heirs did this with 1913 #5 8-)

There was a thread a few months ago about PCGS quietly suggesting a submitter NOT return a group of coins for resubmission, I'm sure they don't like seeing them multiple times.

derryb · January 20, 2015 9:26AM

<< A collector should have the right to get an opinion on authenticity. >>

And he got it from the major dealer. If he wants one from PCGS then he should submit it himself. Major dealer was probably more concerned with what PCGS thinks of him and his ability to spot a fake.

BustHalfBrian · January 20, 2015 9:26AM

<< This disturbs me. A collector should have the right to get an opinion on authenticity. >>

Yup.

vpr, perhaps set up your own account with PCGS.

OldEastside · January 20, 2015 9:28AM

This may sound like spam, BUT, I don't think our host will mind

JOIN THE PCGS COLLECTORS CLUB

Steve

19Lyds · January 20, 2015 9:33AM

<< This disturbs me. A collector should have the right to get an opinion on authenticity. >>

This!

It's a proven fact that a lot of coin dealers don't have a clue.

PTVETTER · January 20, 2015 9:34AM

As a PCGS dealer I would rather have PCGS make the call than just me.
I do preview the coins being sent in and NEVER discourage a questionable coin.
I do however discourage harshly cleaned coins from being sent in!

After reading the post about the bad 1909- S VDB, I am questioning my abilities .
I just hurt my own feelings!

Wabbit2313 · January 20, 2015 9:46AM

I won't send them in or other obvious problem coins. Just gives those grader more reason to think my order is crap.

Now if one was to send an entire order of junk like this, that I could see, if you are Hell bent on just burning your cash for no apparent reason.

CaptHenway · January 20, 2015 10:05AM

<< 

<< A collector should have the right to get an opinion on authenticity. >>

And he got it from the major dealer. If he wants one from PCGS then he should submit it himself. Major dealer was probably more concerned with what PCGS thinks of him and his ability to spot a fake. >>

I have been both an Authenticator and a Dealer, yet there were coins I was not sure of. I was never afraid to let a collector get a second opinion from a TPG.

MGLICKER · January 20, 2015 10:08AM

Images please.

Barndog · January 20, 2015 10:09AM

I send in obvious problem coins when the die marriage matters

Cougar1978 · January 20, 2015 10:16AM

It is the dealer's right to screen his submissions. I would not submit a coin I thought was fake either.

If you want to submit the coin on your own (via PCGS Collectors Club) after an opinion it is fake go for it. He probably saved you money. If you feel your opinion is correct, join the Collectors Club, submit it yourself, and take control of your own destiny. I did that decades ago.

Years ago shortly after the advent of slabbing a good friend in the coin club offered a toned coin he had bought in a major auction via mail bid to Dealer A to submit. Dealer A refused to submit as he said it was AT. The coin club guy went to Dealer B who purchased it for a super price, our fellow from the club making money (our coin club guy did not want to take a chance on it coming back AT after the heads up). With him was another fellow from the club who went in a few weeks later to find out how the coin turned out pretending interest in it. Dealer B shook his head "It came back AT in body bag, I had to get rid of it at a show dealer to dealer at a loss."

Nowadays one would simply submit their own material through the Collectors Club.

savoyspecial · January 20, 2015 10:36AM

to follow up on what cougar1978 said, the dealer is probably following the dealer agreement to the letter here.....if he KNOWS it is fake, then he cant knowingly submit it in good conscience

CaptHenway · January 20, 2015 11:00AM

And what if the collector agrees that it is a fake, but needs something in writing to get his money back from the person he bought it from?

savoyspecial · January 20, 2015 11:02AM

That's a great point Capt

I still have to think that the dealer has the right to refuse sending anything off for a customer (for any reason, or no real reason at all)

OldEastside · January 20, 2015 11:06AM

Can't a dealer just notate that he's suspicious to its authenticity but his customer would like a second opinion ?

Steve

WoodenJefferson · January 20, 2015 11:24AM

Is it possible the authorized dealer is on some sort of probation and sends in a bogus coin, his authorization might be revoked.

BIGAL2749 · January 25, 2015 2:50AM

<< 

<< 

<< We all better hope that they keep on frowning with fakes. >>

^^^ this^^^

i throw them away in the trash hopefully to never again surface >>

Yikes - Imagine if George Walton or his heirs did this with 1913 #5 8-)

There was a thread a few months ago about PCGS quietly suggesting a submitter NOT return a group of coins for resubmission, I'm sure they don't like seeing them multiple times. >>

Sorry for double post

I thought the heirs did bring the coin to an expert (Stacks) in the 60's and was told it was a fake only to be sold forty years later by Stacks

BIGAL2749 · January 25, 2015 2:51AM

Sorry double post

StrikeOutXXX · January 25, 2015 3:00AM

<< 

<< 

<< 

<< We all better hope that they keep on frowning with fakes. >>

^^^ this^^^

i throw them away in the trash hopefully to never again surface >>

Yikes - Imagine if George Walton or his heirs did this with 1913 #5 8-)

There was a thread a few months ago about PCGS quietly suggesting a submitter NOT return a group of coins for resubmission, I'm sure they don't like seeing them multiple times. >>

Sorry for double post

I thought the heirs did bring the coin to an expert (Stacks) in the 60's and was told it was a fake only to be sold forty years later by Stacks >>

Yes, that was my point - imagine if we just trashed supposed fake coins.

TwoSides2aCoin · January 25, 2015 3:03AM

PCGS doesn't make faces, nor concessions. At least not with the coins I submit. I do the frowning when they're returned as "questionable authenticity" or "not genuine". Which , thankfully, has only been on a few occasions.

I'm such a dumb@$$ sometimes.

ricko · January 25, 2015 3:28AM

The coin owner should join the collectors club and submit the coin...that will resolve the issue. Cheers, RickO

SamByrd · January 25, 2015 3:33AM

<< This disturbs me. A collector should have the right to get an opinion on authenticity. >>

PCGS is a respected expert perhaps the most , and I would take there assessment of authenticity as right 99.9% of the time. The dealer has not looked at millions of coins nor have on staff a group of experts that are unmatched in the coin industry as PCGS does I would say he is not the final word.

The dealer should have taken the submission and even mentioned his opinion and why he has the view the coin in question is spurious , but still send the coin in for a paying customer.

The dealer did not act in the clients interest.

DonWillis · January 25, 2015 4:30AM

I suggest you return the coin back to the very reputed dealer you bought it from and ask him to submit the coin for authentication.

If he is selling fake coins and doesn't know it then he has something to learn. If he is selling fake coins and does know it then you have something to learn. Either way, it's best to know.

After the recent passage of the Collectible Coin Protection Act it is much more likely that sellers of counterfeit coins and holders will be prosecuted and/or sued for damages.

vpr · March 13, 2015 2:18AM

Sorry for the last response, folks. I agree in a sense that they should have let me submit the coin anyway, but they saved me the grading fees. I had purchased the piece several months ago and the dealer who sold it to me gladly took it back and exchanged it for a slabbed coin. The moral of the story for me is to always purchase from people you can trust.

Here are a couple of pics:

clarkbar04 · March 13, 2015 2:42AM

I don't know a thing about saints, but that looks like one hell of a good fake.

messydesk · March 13, 2015 3:59AM

Why would you want to lose the ORYH* on that Saint, only to risk it coming back bad?

(*Old, Rusty, Yellowed Holder)

Christos · March 13, 2015 4:26AM

Sounds like it worked out for you now if some of the Saint experts could chim in as to why the coin is fake we could all learn something.

Type2 · March 13, 2015 4:34AM

Was he trying to buy it? I'll send them in just to see if i was right or not. He should do his job as a dealer and send it in they get paid if it's a fake or not..

vpr · March 13, 2015 6:28AM

<< Was he trying to buy it? I'll send them in just to see if i was right or not. He should do his job as a dealer and send it in they get paid if it's a fake or not..

>>

Nope, I told him right off the bat that I wasn't looking to sell any.

derryb · March 13, 2015 10:24AM

pictured saint is authentic.

PCGS frowns upon fake coin submissions?

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