What do these extremely rare coins have in common?

MrEureka · January 16, 2015 9:58PM

What do these coins have in common? Do any of them not belong in this group? And whatever you think, what makes you so sure?

Broadstruck · January 16, 2015 10:02PM

All either struck in lead or electrotypes with a lead core.

jdimmick · January 16, 2015 10:03PM

Andy, they look like restrikes.

jdimmick · January 16, 2015 10:04PM

restrikes from prior used dies?

BillJones · January 16, 2015 10:21PM

They are all so-called "restrikes" that were made from discarded U.S. mint dies. In reality they are counterfeits that were made to sell to 19th century collectors.

All of them are disreputable in my opinion although I do confess that I did handle an example of the first one, the 1804 "restrike" cent, to fill a want list when I was a dealer.

winky · January 16, 2015 10:31PM

Junk is Junk!!

TwoSides2aCoin · January 16, 2015 10:32PM

None of them are in my possession, collection, or inventory. That's 3 things in common.

MrEureka · January 16, 2015 10:37PM

Junk is Junk!!

True enough, but some junk is valuable. I would pay six figures for this particular pile of junk, and would expect to sell them for a quick profit.

Mark · January 16, 2015 11:01PM

Andy, I presume the extent of your "quick profit" would depend on the particular 6 figures included in your purchase price.

More seriously, have you handled any of these yourself? I presume you've probably bought and sold the 1804 "cent," but what about the others?

lasvegasteddy · January 16, 2015 11:01PM

<< None of them are in my possession, collection, or inventory. That's 3 things in common. >>

^^^this about sums things up fine^^^

BillJones · January 16, 2015 11:08PM

<< Junk is Junk!!

True enough, but some junk is valuable. I would pay six figures for this particular pile of junk, and would expect to sell them for a quick profit. >>

You are right. I believe that there are six known examples of 1811 restrike half cent. Those things are worth more than the original coins, which are scarce and valuable in their own right.

MrEureka · January 16, 2015 11:09PM

More seriously, have you handled any of these yourself? I presume you've probably bought and sold the 1804 "cent," but what about the others?

The 1804 Cent imaged is in white metal, not copper, and is extremely rare as such. And the 1823/2 Cent is in silver, which is also far rarer than the copper "restrike". Anyway, I think I've had one each of both of those pieces, as well as an 1827 Quarter "Restrike" in copper.

BTW, the 1827 Quarter is the coin that does not belong in the group. That one may have been struck at the Mint, whereas the rest were almost certainly struck privately from discarded dies.

CaptHenway · January 16, 2015 11:14PM

THey look a little mickley to me..........

MrEureka · January 16, 2015 11:20PM

THey look a little mickley to me..........

What about the 1827? The arguments in its favor are that it has a reeded edge, unlike the other pieces, and that the die pair is one that is known to have been used at the Mint, before the dies rusted. The arguments against are that the collar doesn't match anything else known to have been struck at the Mint, and that the dies are so freakin' rusty.

Quarternut · January 17, 2015 2:08AM

The first five were struck outside the Mint from discarded dies and are considered private re-strikes.

The 1827 B-2 however, was struck circa 1869-70 and is termed a Mint re-strike.

If your refering to a Mickley connection, again the 1827 quarter does not have one. The 1827 quarters that supposedly were purchased by Mickley (this is just a story by the way and has no basis in fact) were 1827 B-1's not B-2.

The thing they all have in common is that they were struck using Mint made dies, but not in the year they are dated.

QN

Quarternut · January 17, 2015 2:18AM

Should have read the other comments! Looks like Andy already stated the answer...

QN

CaptHenway · January 17, 2015 2:37AM

<< THey look a little mickley to me..........

What about the 1827? The arguments in its favor are that it has a reeded edge, unlike the other pieces, and that the die pair is one that is known to have been used at the Mint, before the dies rusted. The arguments against are that the collar doesn't match anything else known to have been struck at the Mint, and that the dies are so freakin' rusty. >>

Probably Mint made, but I wanted to be a little cryptic in my answer for the benefit of those not familiar with Mr. Mickley.

baddogss · January 17, 2015 4:00AM

I really like these kind of post/threads, I always learn so much. Way cool stuff, no matter what you think of them. Thank you!

USMarine6 · January 17, 2015 4:29AM

<< I really like these kind of post/threads, I always learn so much. Way cool stuff, no matter what you think of them. Thank you! >>

Mark · January 17, 2015 4:52AM

<< <> >>

I double ditto. I did not know that the 1804 "cent" came in silver. I thought it was simply a miserable picture...

MrEureka · January 17, 2015 6:03AM

The 1827 B-2 however, was struck circa 1869-70 and is termed a Mint re-strike.

QN - How convinced are you that they were made at the Mint? It's certainly not obvious to me, one way or the other.

TopographicOceans · January 17, 2015 6:17AM

I didn't know, so I cheated and just read Bill Jones' answer

LoveMyLiberty · January 17, 2015 8:24AM

coin 1: J-28, private restrike, 1804 cent in white metal, plain edge, obv die 1803 S-261, rev die 1820 N-12

coin 2: J-31, private restrike, 1804 $5 in copper, reeded edge

coin 3: J-39, private restrike, 1808 $5 in silver reeded edge, produced around the 1860's

coin 4: J-41, private restrike, 1810 cent in white metal, plain edge, obv die 1810 S-285, rev die 1820 N-12

coin 5: J-46, private restrike, 1823 cent in silver, plain edge, obv die 1823 N-2, rev die 1813 S-293

coin 6: J-48, restrike made in 1850's?, 1827/3/2 quarter, in copper, reeded edge, obv die 1827/3/2 B-2, rev die 1819 B-2

Great discussions and the above info. from:

United States Pattern Coins, 10th edition, J.Hewitt Judd, M.D.
Early United States Quarters 1796 - 1838, By Steve M. Tompkins
Early Quarter Dollars of the United States Mint 1796 - 1838, By Rea, Peterson, Karoleff & Kovach Jr.

Quarternut · January 17, 2015 10:58AM

<< The 1827 B-2 however, was struck circa 1869-70 and is termed a Mint re-strike.

QN - How convinced are you that they were made at the Mint? It's certainly not obvious to me, one way or the other. >>

If they have the same reed count as the silver restrikes then they were. I haven't been able to examine one out of a slab to count the reeds.

Plus, there is documentation that of the dies found and inventoried in 1869 (which included the 1827 obv die & an unknown date rev die), both silver and copper restrikes were made.

QN

asheland · January 17, 2015 12:29PM

Contemporary counterfeits?

Treashunt · January 17, 2015 8:59PM

<< 

<< I really like these kind of post/threads, I always learn so much. Way cool stuff, no matter what you think of them. Thank you! >>

>>

agreed

very fun thread

What do these extremely rare coins have in common?

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