Doubling pics
byknow
Posts: 101 ✭
Here are the pics of the 1865 3 cent piece...
0
byknow
Posts: 101 ✭
Comments
a term i've never truly understood
the coin itself is sweet
i love the clashing on the reverse and die cracks
pretty nice crack under her neck there too
S - mechanical doubling
<< <i>What is throwing me of is inside the O in of and the 2nd S.What may have caused this.I did notice the rim is not right also. >>
alot of indian head cents have this longacre doubling from the same time period is why i say it's most likely longacre doubling
<< <i>
<< <i>What is throwing me of is inside the O in of and the 2nd S.What may have caused this.I did notice the rim is not right also. >>
alot of indian head cents have this longacre doubling from the same time period is why i say it's most likely longacre doubling >>
Teddy is right. That is typical Longacre doubling.
IIRC, it was a method of retooling the die around the devices to slow down die erosion.
Take the letter "I" because it is easier to explain on a simpler letter.
On the die the letter is incuse and the coin results in an elevated letter.
On the die, the field is level until it reaches the outside portion of the letter where it forms a right angle straight down forming the side of the letter "I"
The depression then flattens out for the body of the letter until it reaches the other side of the letter where it goes straight up forming the opposite side of the letter.
It then forms another right angle where the opposite side of the letter again meets the field on the other side of the letter "I"
There is a LOT of friction on the die when it strikes the metal and over the course of time the die starts to erode, or lose some of it's crispness.
The edges of the designs, in this case the letter "I" are areas of extreme friction.
With time the right angles on the die begin the "round out a bit". Sometimes they chip away. Think of what this effect would have on the finished product, the coin.
This results in the area on the finished coin where the once vertical, raised letter "I" meets the field now shows the letter flattening out or merging with the fields.
This increases with further use of the die.
This is seen as Logacre doubling on the coin.
edited to add:
I will try to add this excellent pic from Ken Potter's site to give a visual.
http://koinpro.tripod.com/OFD/18801cHSO.jpg
MS63 is my guess on a grade
https://imdb.com/name/nm1835107/
<< <i>To try to explain Longacre doubling in easy terms.
Take the letter "I" because it is easier to explain on a simpler letter.
On the die the letter is incuse and the coin results in an elevated letter.
On the die, the field is level until it reaches the outside portion of the letter where it forms a right angle straight down forming the side of the letter "I"
The depression then flattens out for the body of the letter until it reaches the other side of the letter where it goes straight up forming the opposite side of the letter.
It then forms another right angle where the opposite side of the letter again meets the field on the other side of the letter "I"
There is a LOT of friction on the die when it strikes the metal and over the course of time the die starts to erode, or lose some of it's crispness.
The edges of the designs, in this case the letter "I" are areas of extreme friction.
With time the right angles on the die begin the "round out a bit". Sometimes they chip away. Think of what this effect would have on the finished product, the coin.
This results in the area on the finished coin where the once vertical, raised letter "I" meets the field now shows the letter flattening out or merging with the fields.
This increases with further use of the die.
This is seen as Logacre doubling on the coin.
edited to add:
I will try to add this excellent pic from Ken Potter's site to give a visual.
The pic is Longacre doubling.
<< <i>So everyone,ya think if I purchased at $145.00 would be to much? >>
auction prices realized show ms63's can be had already graded for around $100 + change
i'm not sure this series has a large collector base
add the fact the market is soft
"go from there"
myself i'd want more in those vertical lines of roman numerals
<< <i>To try to explain Longacre doubling in easy terms.
Take the letter "I" because it is easier to explain on a simpler letter.
On the die the letter is incuse and the coin results in an elevated letter.
On the die, the field is level until it reaches the outside portion of the letter where it forms a right angle straight down forming the side of the letter "I"
The depression then flattens out for the body of the letter until it reaches the other side of the letter where it goes straight up forming the opposite side of the letter.
It then forms another right angle where the opposite side of the letter again meets the field on the other side of the letter "I"
There is a LOT of friction on the die when it strikes the metal and over the course of time the die starts to erode, or lose some of it's crispness.
The edges of the designs, in this case the letter "I" are areas of extreme friction.
With time the right angles on the die begin the "round out a bit". Sometimes they chip away. Think of what this effect would have on the finished product, the coin.
This results in the area on the finished coin where the once vertical, raised letter "I" meets the field now shows the letter flattening out or merging with the fields.
This increases with further use of the die.
This is seen as Logacre doubling on the coin.
edited to add:
I will try to add this excellent pic from Ken Potter's site to give a visual.
http://koinpro.tripod.com/OFD/18801cHSO.jpg >>
lol...using "TED" of united
ok ok
so what you have explained above is "die state" address
later states the letters get rounded and "mushy" looking
longacre doubling...is different then "die state"
i'll explain it...how i see it as an ex-aerospace machinist
during "longacre's " time at the mint
he wanted all letters to stand off of the fields at a uniform height...so he had 2 levels cut on all separate letter dies
these letter dies were used to stamp in the dies
the 2 surfaces would be...
top surface to stand off the field <<< deepest stamping
the 2nd bottom surface was a guide for how deep the letter was to be stamped
once all letters were stamped...a die maker could cut the field flat then grind and polish it smooth
so to me it was "a guide for how deep to stamp these letters" then field could be reworked to that level
but die makers never removed this guide surface...lazy b*st*rds got away with it
die state doesn't come into play
how deep these letters got stamped and fields weren't finished to letter levels of their guides
a fail-safe type concept...to ensure that crisp point of letter to field edge was always there
to me
it was like when ford let the edsel be designed and produced
why i've always been a lil puzzled
why "longacre"
"lazy die maker" state...to me would be better term...or "LDM"
longacre already had his fame with 1864 "L" on ribbon
was his ego that big that he wanted his name plastered all over things numismatic
longacre's
what are ya gunna do
<< <i>Thank you.I'm happy you took the time to help educate some of us that need the help.I'm really tired of lining the pockets of unscrupulousness people out there who don't care of others as long as they get theirs....
^^^ this^^^
why i love these forums
a wealth of numismatic education abounds here
well beyond my meek lil schooling i've picked up over the years