A buddy I know got his grades yesterday from PCGS on 35 sets and went 0/35 on the PL coin. I get back about (40) more sets from PCGS early next week and will be curious to see if I landed a few PL's.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I went to a small show this afternoon. There was one table where someone had a 4 pc anniversary Kennedy silver half dollar set, open. From 10 feet away, I saw that it looked as though it had two PROOF half dollars in it. I immediately scooped it up.
Getting home, studying in more detail, I noticed that not only is the 2014 S half highly PROOFlike, but no lines on the devices either. I wouldn't call it as DCAM as the true PROOF in the set, but it certainly is reflective, way more so than the 3 sets I had received from the mint earlier this month.
Thank you for starting this thread, I wouldn't have looked for one of these otherwise.
BigA... I answered that question. It does cost more to grade 70s than 69s when you are submitting bulk quantities to PCGS at their bulk rates. Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Ummmmm.....let me get this right.....you send in a bunch of coins and pay for grading (bulk or otherwise)....they are graded...but if you want the ones that rate a 70 grade slabbed you have to pay more than the 69's? Honest question.....
So wouldn't it be in the interest of the company (any) to give more 70's and get more income???
BigA. I want to help you understand the process, but I am not sure how to answer your reasonable question. On the one hand, it is certainly possible that a grading service with that pricing format might think the way you suggest and not grade honestly. On the other hand, reputable companies like NGC and PCGS with grade guarantees (and possibly others as well) would very possibly be shooting themselves in the foot (if not committing suicide) if they behaved that way.
Wondercoin.
Edited to add...bigole. I did not see any videos and, as always, this is just my two cents.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I can't seem to find any reference to these rates on the PCGS site including the Bulk Submission agreement and Price list. Could you point to a page where they are listed please?
Kudbegud. When you have (100) sets ready to send PCGS, just call them at the (800) number and ask to speak with the bulk dept. I am sure it would be very simple to get a quote on the cost of grading 69's and 70's in these sets. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
<< <i>Kudbegud. When you have (100) sets ready to send PCGS, just call them at the (800) number and ask to speak with the bulk dept. I am sure it would be very simple to get a quote on the cost of grading 69's and 70's in these sets. Wondercoin. >>
I think you have to be an authorized dealer to submit to bulk and its usually a minimum of 100 coins. You could ask a dealer what their prices are but I think you already got your answer.
<< <i>Kudbegud. When you have (100) sets ready to send PCGS, just call them at the (800) number and ask to speak with the bulk dept. I am sure it would be very simple to get a quote on the cost of grading 69's and 70's in these sets. Wondercoin. >>
I think you have to be an authorized dealer to submit to bulk and its usually a minimum of 100 coins. You could ask a dealer what their prices are but I think you already got your answer. >>
Collectors Club Members can submit via the bulk grading system. You just have to meet the minimum requirements for qty and number of different coins submitted.
<< <i>BigA... I answered that question. It does cost more to grade 70s than 69s when you are submitting bulk quantities to PCGS at their bulk rates. Wondercoin >>
Bulk Submission Pricing is based upon grade with a minimum per coin charge of $10.
Bulk Submissions are intended for folks that "have a clue". Hence, the minimum grade REQUIREMENT. There are also submission requirements such as all the coins need to be in the same series with, it used to be, a maximum of 4 different dates and MM?
I remember when I was submitting Presidential Dollars for First Day of Issue under the bulk program. The most I was charged was $40 per coin for an MS68 Monroe. The fee's were variable and subject to change at anytime. Typically, MS67's were $30 each while MS66's ranged between $10 and $12.
I can understand the additional PL charge simply because PCGS is a grading service and the grading of some coins carries certain liabilities which must be accounted for. The bottom line is that IF a coin has more value, then the associated grading fee is just going to be higher.
I'd really hate to see the charges associated with a million dollar coin which would probably pay for a couple of my bulk submissions with some change left over.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
<< <i>Kudbegud. When you have (100) sets ready to send PCGS, just call them at the (800) number and ask to speak with the bulk dept. I am sure it would be very simple to get a quote on the cost of grading 69's and 70's in these sets. Wondercoin. >>
I think you have to be an authorized dealer to submit to bulk and its usually a minimum of 100 coins. You could ask a dealer what their prices are but I think you already got your answer. >>
Collectors Club Members can submit via the bulk grading system. You just have to meet the minimum requirements for qty and number of different coins submitted.
GrandAm >>
You also have to sign and submit a Bulk Submission Agreement form which outlines the specifics of the Bulk Submission Program.
From what I understand, the minimum charge for a Bulk Submission where all coins grade is over a grand so, this program is definitely not for newbies. It is designed for Coin Dealers that have a clue or two.
I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.
Hattrick. I could ignore your comments (as everyone else did on this thread), but that is generally not my style. So, let me say this. Have you seen what is in MS65 holders, MS66 holders, MS67 holders, etc. these days? Go lot view a major auction and report back to me. The 70's might look just fine to you in that context. Just my two cents. Wondercoin.
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Thanks for all your reply's. I looked on every rate page, bulk submission page and the bulk agreement page before I posted my question. I don't doubt what your saying, I just can't find a place where I can read about the fees you are talking about. I saw all the things you all mentioned except any page with a description about the varying grade charges. It must be hidden somewhere.
Coin Vault had the NGC PLs in a set for $429 yesterday night. They showed a DPL enhanced also alone but not in a set to show the difference between the PL ad DPL. They also showed a non PL without any reflective surfaces. The DPLs are very nice at least from what you can see on TV. I wonder if PCGS will differentiate between the PL and DPL like NGC.
Collectors unite. Others divide. Dealers excite. Detractors incite. Collect what you like.
Mitch, I thought these coins would have sold out by now. But , now that "household" limits have been lifted, I think you do a fine job getting the coins to the collectors, and information disseminated beautifully. I only wish the "TWO WAY" market was stronger with the BUY/SELL on this side of the counter…. Rather than hearing or dealing with the hype that often buries first time entrants into our hobby by dealing with men who scream at me and say : "DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I PAID", and they get mad at me for not stepping up to the plate as high as they did when they purchased. (speaking from the street level dealer's view).
In that regard, I am for the collectors getting as good a coin deal as they can afford, with the CAVEAT attached, "buyer beware". Find the best coins for the money, but if you end up selling out and losing out, don't come here to _____ us out.
<< <i>A buddy I know got his grades yesterday from PCGS on 35 sets and went 0/35 on the PL coin. I get back about (40) more sets from PCGS early next week and will be curious to see if I landed a few PL's.
Wondercoin >>
Is this much ado about little ....how many coins have the PL on the label ?
<< <i>Hattrick. I could ignore your comments (as everyone else did on this thread), but that is generally not my style. So, let me say this. Have you seen what is in MS65 holders, MS66 holders, MS67 holders, etc. these days? Go lot view a major auction and report back to me. The 70's might look just fine to you in that context. Just my two cents. Wondercoin. >>
Many members have posted many times what they have seen. The grades above take into account the variations in the condition of the coin, no issue there. There are plenty
of 70's that have no scratches, spots, blemishes, ect. that are perfect coins. I have seen and I know many here have seen, if they want to say or not, coins in 70 holders that
are clearly scratched, have very noticible spots or blemishes ect. These flaws are visable to anyone with the naked eye. It does not even take an experienced grader to see
these flaws. If these coins are 70's then it should not be the top grade with the excessive premium. The perfect coins should be 80's with the top premium.
Being in context you speak of, better than a lesser quality, just does not do it for me. My standards for perfection and doing something to the highest level are far above that.
You sound like a salesman trying to make an excuse for his lesser quality products.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
<< <i>Hattrick. I could ignore your comments (as everyone else did on this thread), but that is generally not my style. So, let me say this. Have you seen what is in MS65 holders, MS66 holders, MS67 holders, etc. these days? Go lot view a major auction and report back to me. The 70's might look just fine to you in that context. Just my two cents. Wondercoin. >>
Many members have posted many times what they have seen. The grades above take into account the variations in the condition of the coin, no issue there. There are plenty
of 70's that have no scratches, spots, blemishes, ect. that are perfect coins. I have seen and I know many here have seen, if they want to say or not, coins in 70 holders that
are clearly scratched, have very noticible spots or blemishes ect. These flaws are visable to anyone with the naked eye. It does not even take an experienced grader to see
these flaws. If these coins are 70's then it should not be the top grade with the excessive premium. The perfect coins should be 80's with the top premium. >>
Not to step on anyone's toes, but it was a simple "Yes" or "No" question. The grade 70 doesn't mean perfect. It never did. It is as close as it gets. We will never get perfect as long as there are two opinions of it. P.S. I learned never to believe anything I read or hear, and only half of what I see. (we just have to see)
.. In the last 10 days Ebay prices for the 4 pc have been declining .. sets of NGC 69s.... circa $160.00, 70s.. $350-375... raw sets at $110.00-120.00.. it looks like the set needs a some boost for PLs, to help keep prices afloat
Hattrick... You did everything except address the point I made back at you. If I am a good salesman, then you are good politician my friend (and I mean this in an endearing light).
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
Hattrick. I know you are just trying to get a good dialogue going and I appreciate that. But, I have to ask you ... How did you address my point? Please tell me about the MS65, MS66 and MS67 slabs you have personally examined at lot viewing at the major auctions this year? What is your impression of those and should "your labeling" be equally applied to those grades (and others) as well?
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
I did not and will never look at them as I have no interest.
I have no experience with or desire to collect or look at any of the classic coins, or coins in any grade other than 70. Just my preference.
I can however tell the difference between a coin that has scratches and spots and one that does not.
The discussion about damaged or blemished coins in 70 slabs comes up in almost every thread about recent modern issues. I will put it plain and simple for those of you who beat around the bush about the subject. There are many coins put in 70 slabs that are clearly scratched, blemished or otherwise damaged just to meet quotas and for the $$$$$$$$$. These damaged coins are then shipped to the buying public who expect to get a nice coin with no scratches, lines, brush marks, ect. for the high prices they have to pay. While the sellers have dozens of excuses why a 70 does not mean a perfect coin they will find their sales falling off if they continue to ship damaged coins. It is true that if you throw enough $$$it against the wall it will stick, but eventually it will start to fall off.
" If you push something hard enough, it will fall over. " The 1st Law of Opposition from The Firesign Theater
Don't take the salesman jab personally. Just rattling your cage. I did state my feelings about perfect 70 vs the other grades you talked about. As others have posted they believe a 70 is just better that the rest and not perfect. However there are many 70's that are perfect. The issue is most people who are selling the better than other grades 70's are calling them" perfect" 70's and clearly they are not. As the TPGs are great with comming up with new variant labels. They should have two different labels AS THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT IS BEING PUSHED OFF ON THE COLLECTING PUBLIC" 70 "better than any lesser grade" and 70 "PERFECT" >>
What?!?!
So are you saying you need to standardize every word of explaining what a 70 should mean to someone that might not know what it means?
Imagine a thread on a PL coin that has not surfaced after nearly a month when it was launched .. Tens of thousands coins are already in the hands of dealers, collectors , no PLs .If any existed ,a sharp dealer would have them in already hand
Reminds me of the pump and then dump scheme in futures trading
I can take my satin fields enhanced and a one or two degree turn will turn it DMPL. it is satin not DMPL in my book and I might buy a DMPL off eBay ( with return) just so I can see what they're calling DMPL.
I got in some 70PL coins and it is as I expected. I have yet to slab a DMPL coin so I can not determine what it will take to get one of those graded.
It appears the PL should add just nominal value to the 70 grade. I currently value the coin in 70PL at about $175, while the MS70 version is about a $100 coin. Hence, about a $75 differential at this point.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
The ats Pl's actually showed up first...the first few did ok...but I expect a fizzle to overtake the market. Good for some short change if submitted in bulk.
Are the grading companies calling all these PL now? EBay is flooded with them. They all are PL depending on the angle. PL will mean nothing very soon. Still few DMPL's although I bet these are not the kind of DMPL's we expect.
<< <i>Are the grading companies calling all these PL now? EBay is flooded with them. They all are PL depending on the angle. PL will mean nothing very soon. Still few DMPL's although I bet these are not the kind of DMPL's we expect. >>
Comments
Wondercoin
Getting home, studying in more detail, I noticed that not only is the 2014 S half highly PROOFlike, but no lines on the devices either. I wouldn't call it as DCAM as the true PROOF in the set, but it certainly is reflective, way more so than the 3 sets I had received from the mint earlier this month.
Thank you for starting this thread, I wouldn't have looked for one of these otherwise.
Wondercoin
Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.
<< <i>For the same reason the 70 grade costs more than the 69 grade I suppose. Wondercoin. >>
Costs more to GRADE?
That was the inquiry..
Ummmmm.....let me get this right.....you send in a bunch of coins and pay for grading (bulk or otherwise)....they are graded...but if you want the ones that rate a 70 grade slabbed you have to pay more than the 69's? Honest question.....
So wouldn't it be in the interest of the company (any) to give more 70's and get more income???
Obviously I am missing something here....
Wondercoin.
Edited to add...bigole. I did not see any videos and, as always, this is just my two cents.
<< <i>Kudbegud. When you have (100) sets ready to send PCGS, just call them at the (800) number and ask to speak with the bulk dept. I am sure it would be very simple to get a quote on the cost of grading 69's and 70's in these sets. Wondercoin. >>
I think you have to be an authorized dealer to submit to bulk and its usually a minimum of 100 coins. You could ask a dealer what their prices are but I think you already got your answer.
and anywhere where coins are discussed that they have seen many modern coins in 70 graded slabs that do not belong there.
there is no doubt in my mind that there serious issues with what gets into a 70 slab.
<< <i>
<< <i>Kudbegud. When you have (100) sets ready to send PCGS, just call them at the (800) number and ask to speak with the bulk dept. I am sure it would be very simple to get a quote on the cost of grading 69's and 70's in these sets. Wondercoin. >>
I think you have to be an authorized dealer to submit to bulk and its usually a minimum of 100 coins. You could ask a dealer what their prices are but I think you already got your answer. >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Collectors Club Members can submit via the bulk grading system. You just have to meet the minimum requirements for qty and number of different coins submitted.
GrandAm
<< <i>BigA... I answered that question. It does cost more to grade 70s than 69s when you are submitting bulk quantities to PCGS at their bulk rates. Wondercoin >>
Bulk Submission Pricing is based upon grade with a minimum per coin charge of $10.
Bulk Submissions are intended for folks that "have a clue". Hence, the minimum grade REQUIREMENT.
There are also submission requirements such as all the coins need to be in the same series with, it used to be, a maximum of 4 different dates and MM?
I remember when I was submitting Presidential Dollars for First Day of Issue under the bulk program. The most I was charged was $40 per coin for an MS68 Monroe.
The fee's were variable and subject to change at anytime. Typically, MS67's were $30 each while MS66's ranged between $10 and $12.
I can understand the additional PL charge simply because PCGS is a grading service and the grading of some coins carries certain liabilities which must be accounted for. The bottom line is that IF a coin has more value, then the associated grading fee is just going to be higher.
I'd really hate to see the charges associated with a million dollar coin which would probably pay for a couple of my bulk submissions with some change left over.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Kudbegud. When you have (100) sets ready to send PCGS, just call them at the (800) number and ask to speak with the bulk dept. I am sure it would be very simple to get a quote on the cost of grading 69's and 70's in these sets. Wondercoin. >>
I think you have to be an authorized dealer to submit to bulk and its usually a minimum of 100 coins. You could ask a dealer what their prices are but I think you already got your answer. >>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Collectors Club Members can submit via the bulk grading system. You just have to meet the minimum requirements for qty and number of different coins submitted.
GrandAm
You also have to sign and submit a Bulk Submission Agreement form which outlines the specifics of the Bulk Submission Program.
From what I understand, the minimum charge for a Bulk Submission where all coins grade is over a grand so, this program is definitely not for newbies. It is designed for Coin Dealers that have a clue or two.
The name is LEE!
Box of 20
Mitch, I thought these coins would have sold out by now. But , now that "household" limits have been lifted, I think you do a fine job getting the coins to the collectors, and information disseminated beautifully.
I only wish the "TWO WAY" market was stronger with the BUY/SELL on this side of the counter…. Rather than hearing or dealing with the hype that often buries first time entrants into our hobby by dealing with men who scream at me and say : "DO YOU KNOW HOW MUCH I PAID", and they get mad at me for not stepping up to the plate as high as they did when they purchased. (speaking from the street level dealer's view).
In that regard, I am for the collectors getting as good a coin deal as they can afford, with the CAVEAT attached, "buyer beware". Find the best coins for the money, but if you end up selling out and losing out, don't come here to _____ us out.
Smarten up, collectors.
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>A buddy I know got his grades yesterday from PCGS on 35 sets and went 0/35 on the PL coin. I get back about (40) more sets from PCGS early next week and will be curious to see if I landed a few PL's.
Wondercoin >>
Is this much ado about little ....how many coins have the PL on the label ?
<< <i>Hattrick. I could ignore your comments (as everyone else did on this thread), but that is generally not my style. So, let me say this. Have you seen what is in MS65 holders, MS66 holders, MS67 holders, etc. these days? Go lot view a major auction and report back to me. The 70's might look just fine to you in that context. Just my two cents. Wondercoin. >>
Many members have posted many times what they have seen. The grades above take into account the variations in the condition of the coin, no issue there. There are plenty
of 70's that have no scratches, spots, blemishes, ect. that are perfect coins. I have seen and I know many here have seen, if they want to say or not, coins in 70 holders that
are clearly scratched, have very noticible spots or blemishes ect. These flaws are visable to anyone with the naked eye. It does not even take an experienced grader to see
these flaws. If these coins are 70's then it should not be the top grade with the excessive premium. The perfect coins should be 80's with the top premium.
Being in context you speak of, better than a lesser quality, just does not do it for me. My standards for perfection and doing something to the highest level are far above that.
You sound like a salesman trying to make an excuse for his lesser quality products.
<< <i>
<< <i>Hattrick. I could ignore your comments (as everyone else did on this thread), but that is generally not my style. So, let me say this. Have you seen what is in MS65 holders, MS66 holders, MS67 holders, etc. these days? Go lot view a major auction and report back to me. The 70's might look just fine to you in that context. Just my two cents. Wondercoin. >>
Many members have posted many times what they have seen. The grades above take into account the variations in the condition of the coin, no issue there. There are plenty
of 70's that have no scratches, spots, blemishes, ect. that are perfect coins. I have seen and I know many here have seen, if they want to say or not, coins in 70 holders that
are clearly scratched, have very noticible spots or blemishes ect. These flaws are visable to anyone with the naked eye. It does not even take an experienced grader to see
these flaws. If these coins are 70's then it should not be the top grade with the excessive premium. The perfect coins should be 80's with the top premium. >>
Not to step on anyone's toes, but it was a simple "Yes" or "No" question. The grade 70 doesn't mean perfect. It never did. It is as close as it gets. We will never get perfect as long as there are two opinions of it. P.S. I learned never to believe anything I read or hear, and only half of what I see. (we just have to see)
Like this 11 second video without a "FLIP".
PERFECT 70
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Wondercoin
Don't take the salesman jab personally. Just rattling your cage. I did state my feelings about perfect 70
vs the other grades you talked about. As others have posted they believe a 70 is just better that the rest and not perfect.
However there are many 70's that are perfect. The issue is most people who are selling the better than other grades 70's
are calling them" perfect" 70's and clearly they are not. As the TPGs are great with comming up with new variant labels
They should have two different labels AS THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT IS BEING PUSHED OFF ON THE COLLECTING PUBLIC"
70 "better than any lesser grade"
and
70 "PERFECT"
Wondercoin
I have no experience with or desire to collect or look at any of the classic coins, or coins in any grade other than 70. Just my preference.
I can however tell the difference between a coin that has scratches and spots and one that does not.
The discussion about damaged or blemished coins in 70 slabs comes up in almost every thread about recent modern issues.
I will put it plain and simple for those of you who beat around the bush about the subject. There are many coins put in 70 slabs
that are clearly scratched, blemished or otherwise damaged just to meet quotas and for the $$$$$$$$$. These damaged coins are
then shipped to the buying public who expect to get a nice coin with no scratches, lines, brush marks, ect. for the high prices they have to pay.
While the sellers have dozens of excuses why a 70 does not mean a perfect coin they will find their sales falling off if they continue to ship damaged coins.
It is true that if you throw enough $$$it against the wall it will stick, but eventually it will start to fall off.
Wondercoin
<< <i>Wondercoin,
Don't take the salesman jab personally. Just rattling your cage. I did state my feelings about perfect 70 vs the other grades you talked about. As others have posted they believe a 70 is just better that the rest and not perfect. However there are many 70's that are perfect. The issue is most people who are selling the better than other grades 70's are calling them" perfect" 70's and clearly they are not. As the TPGs are great with comming up with new variant labels. They should have two different labels AS THAT IS CLEARLY WHAT IS BEING PUSHED OFF ON THE COLLECTING PUBLIC" 70 "better than any lesser grade" and 70 "PERFECT" >>
What?!?!
So are you saying you need to standardize every word of explaining what a 70 should mean to someone that might not know what it means?
What's up with the crazy spacing in your posts?
<< <i>Here's a PCGS PL70 listed on Ebay.....
Well, if you want a MS70PL then I guess some "shopping" is in order.
The name is LEE!
Tens of thousands coins are already in the hands of dealers, collectors , no PLs .If any existed ,a sharp dealer would have them in already hand
Reminds me of the pump and then dump scheme in futures trading
Wondercoin
It appears the PL should add just nominal value to the 70 grade. I currently value the coin in 70PL at about $175, while the MS70 version is about a $100 coin. Hence, about a $75 differential at this point.
As always, just my two cents.
Wondercoin
Will coins that grade PL or DMPL get labeled as a MS or PR?
This is sooooooo,,,, confusing
GrandAm
It seems they will be graded MS70PL or MS70DMPL,,,,,,,,,, never paid any attention to this designation on MS coins before
Wondercoin
<< <i>Are the grading companies calling all these PL now? EBay is flooded with them. They all are PL depending on the angle. PL will mean nothing very soon. Still few DMPL's although I bet these are not the kind of DMPL's we expect. >>
On Ebay PCGS 2014 MS69 DMPL Kennedy looks frosty and deeply mirrored.
Maybe a DMPL-NL grade is in the works.
“I want you to remember that no * ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb * die for his country”
in lieu of "100"
https://acoinshop.com/ —-> https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5