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An Example of Why there Can't really be an Accurate Error Coin Price Guide
ctf_error_coins
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Both of these error coins are graded as Mint Errors and labeled as MS 65 Broadstruck Indent.
These two very eye appealing error coins couldn't be much more different then they are and still labeled the same. Both are huge broadstruck errors with one being indented about 5% and the other about 95%.
I paid over 500% more for one coin over the other.
These two very eye appealing error coins couldn't be much more different then they are and still labeled the same. Both are huge broadstruck errors with one being indented about 5% and the other about 95%.
I paid over 500% more for one coin over the other.
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And often the nonsense (clandestine) makes more cents.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
the true rare ones stand out like that indian head cent struck on $3. gold planchet
those off metal ones can be interesting
i'll probably buy an off metal silver 90% lincoln along with a clad version as those intrigue me
a copper buffalo nickel probably would be out of my price range but that would be a sweet thing too
but yeah...i'm no error guy
i can only imagine how sketchy values get tossed around and talk of values falls upon dead ears
somewhere i've still got a 1999 p mint set i was working on with broadstruck struck on center without blemishes...that lincoln was tough to find without plating issues,spots,nicks or bruises with even color
sweet nickels there but planchet cracking ruins it for me...just being honest and i hope no offence is taken
but there are in that...no spots,no hits and bruises with very even color...i think that puts um in the rare'r side of rarities and why i call um sweet examples too
hey at least i'm replying here...just probably not in the 2 christmas cards this year club is all
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
I paid over 500% more for one coin over the other.
Forgive the question, but which coin did you pay more for? I will guess the 5% with the date.
--- Lincoln Vanderblatt
<< <i>It is hard to price errors, but a good general price guide is possible. The exceptions would be anything that falls outside the price for a common example of a particular error. For example, probably 75% of nickels on cents are bought as "type coins", without anyone caring what their date is, and they all pretty much sale for the same price, with just occasional "crazy" prices being realized for them (same as happens with "normal" non-error coins.) So, although you could set a good price range for them, if the error was in combination with another error type, say it was double-struck in addition to being an off-metal, the price would be entirely different (much higher.) I think a good, basic price guide (that would actually be relatively accurate) is in fact possible. >>
Jon, I do hear what you are saying, but that guide would be good only for a handful of errors like a 1980 nickel struck on a cent planchet ( there are a huge number of these), a 1970D Quarter struck on dime stock (huge numbers), ND off center cents,(tons), Perhaps eleven cent pieces as they are always around the same price. etc, etc, etc .....
But even on the above mentioned examples I have seen HUGE price variances.
Now get back to my example which is labeled exactly the same way by grading companies. These coins couldn't be more different and priced way different as well. I could show hundreds of examples of labeled double struck coins that that look way different with prices being all over the map.
There are many error coins with one or more errors on a single coin. Many coins in my collection consist of these multiply error coins with no consistent pricing.
So many major error coins are unique, and how do you price a unique coin?
IMO, Eye appeal is the single most important factor in pricing error coins.
I do have a error coin price list in my head as I have closely watched error coins for about 15 years now. It is all about eye appeal which greatly effects the pricing in error coins. Hard to put a guide together based on eye appeal.
<< <i>
Jon, I do hear what you are saying, but that guide would be good only for a handful of errors like a 1980 nickel struck on a cent planchet ( there are a huge number of these), a 1970D Quarter struck on dime stock (huge numbers), ND off center cents,(tons), Perhaps eleven cent pieces as they are always around the same price. etc, etc, etc .....
--It would work with those, but I think one could also be done for about 75% of the errors out there. The other 25% are either combo-errors or too "unique" to write up in a price guide since each coin would have to be individually priced.
But even on the above mentioned examples I have seen HUGE price variances.
--True, but that is either because 1.There was something exceptional about the coin or 2.The purchaser didn't know what the coin was worth (which is easy to do for something without a price guide.) The key is not to look at the outliers, but to look at what the coins typically sell for.
Now get back to my example which is labeled exactly the same way by grading companies. These coins couldn't be more different and priced way different as well. I could show hundreds of examples of labeled double struck coins that that look way different with prices being all over the map.
--Yes, but they are very different coins command very different prices (although the error type is the same for both.)
There are many error coins with one or more errors on a single coin. Many coins in my collection consist of these multiply error coins with no consistent pricing.
--Those all have to be priced individually, and they fall in the 25% category I was discussing earlier.
So many major error coins are unique, and how do you price a unique coin?
-You can actually price them if you handle enough of them, but the price does of course change based on how much demand there is for that unique/rare error at any given time as well as how carefully it's marketed. Major rarities for any coin series U.S., world, ancient, tokens, etc, never are easy to price at all, but a general value is knowable.
IMO, Eye appeal is the single most important factor in pricing error coins.
I do have a error coin price list in my head as I have closely watched error coins for about 15 years now. It is all about eye appeal which greatly effects the pricing in error coins. Hard to put a guide together based on eye appeal. >>
<< <i>I'm guessing the brockage(?) on top >>
+1. I'm in this camp of thought. The severity of the error seems greater, strictly based on visual appearance. Therefore I would pay more.
If you can tie the value of the error into the percentage of the error (like a 5% indention vs. 95%) then a price guide seems plausible. Carry this logic into other error types. Longer cracks = higher value, small cracks = closer to the non-error value.
1) the base value is the non-error counterpart
2) factor in the percentage of the error / severity of the error
3) factor in the eye appeal / preservation state (has the lamination fallen off, or is it still attached?)
4) consider the TPG grade if one exists, although I find this much less important with errors whereas "normal" coins the grade is the primary factor in price
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
I agree that assembling a price guide for errors is very tough. I just got off the phone with a dealer friend who has an error to sell me. He's buried in it, spent way to much and then had it graded by NGC. It took 5 months to get back from grading, and it came back misattributed. The grade and error description are fine, but NGC got the DENOMINATION wrong on the slab label (it's a world coin). So now it's an error coin in an error slab. He considered sending it back to be corrected, but doesn't want to wait again. He's asking $1000 for it, I said it's worth $200-$300 tops on the best of days, we both agree it's a unique or at least very very rare, but we're far away on the price. And we're both equally knowledgeable and experienced in this field, and yet we're no where near agreement on that particular piece.
So your guide would look like this:
etc, etc, etc
1899 Cent Red MS 65 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1899 Cent R/B MS 65 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1899 Cent Red MS 64 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1899 Cent R/B MS 64 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1899 Cent Red MS 63 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1899 Cent R/B MS 63 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1899 Cent Red MS 62 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1899 Cent R/B MS 62 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
etc, etc, etc
then
1900 Cent Red MS 65 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1900 Cent R/B MS 65 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1900 Cent Red MS 64 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1900 Cent R/B MS 64 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1900 Cent Red MS 63 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1900 Cent R/B MS 63 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1900 Cent Red MS 62 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
1900 Cent R/B MS 62 Off Center 5 % $xxx, Off Center 10% $xxx, Off Center 15% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, Off Center 20% $xxx, . Off Center 25% $xxx, Off Center 50% $xxx, etc, etc, etc
and so on and so on .....
and do the same for double struck , triple struck, broadstruck, indents, brockages, etc etc etc ....
Not enough trees in the world to produce enough paper to produce one book with all the possibilities
1899 Cent, off-center, red. MS 65-67.
5% … 10% … 15% … 20% … 25% … … 50% …
$xx … $xxx … $xxx … $xxx … $xxx … … $xxx …
1899 Cent, off-center, red-brown. MS 63-65.
5% … 10% … 15% … 20% … 25% … … 50% …
$xx … $xxx … $xxx … $xxx … $xxx … … $xxx …
1899 Cent, off-center, brown. MS 60-63.
5% … 10% … 15% … 20% … 25% … … 50% …
$xx … $xxx … $xxx … $xxx … $xxx … … $xxx …
As stated previously since eye appeal is such a strong factor I am not sure the grade matters as much. And considering modern errors are often well-preserved (compared to ancients) ... Remember it's a guide not a bible. You don't have to include every single possibility. Ballpark is better than none!
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
1c Indian Head common-date 5% off-center Uncirculated $300
That's really all that's needed for most coins. Anything "rare" would obviously not be priceable.
US cents date 1909 - 1982
Off-center by 5% … adds 10% to coin's value
Off-center by 10% … adds 18% to coin's value
Off-center by 15% … adds 25% to coin's value
Off-center by 20% … adds 40% to coin's value
Double-struck by 5% … adds 10% to coin's value
Double-struck by 10% … adds 10% to coin's value
Double-struck by 20% … adds 40% to coin's value
US cents date 1982 - 2012
Off-center by 5% … adds 10% to coin's value
Off-center by 10% … adds 18% to coin's value
Off-center by 15% … adds 25% to coin's value
Off-center by 20% … adds 40% to coin's value
Amat Colligendo Focum
Top 10 • FOR SALE
Look up the price differences on dated memorial cents. They run from about $5 (2000) to around $400 (2004) depending on date so you would need to include the dates.
I do agree that grades are not as important on error coins.
<< <i>Ok yes on common dates. What about all the uncommon dates.
--If you look at, say, Lincoln cents, most fall into the "common" category. The remaining 5-10% or so would be the ones that would not be in a generic price guide. You could price them out, but I wouldn't bother myself other than perhaps to "note" in the guide something along the lines of "Scarce dates include: 1968-S, 1971-S, 1972-S, 1973-S" (etc and then just say these are worth significantly more than common specimens, but don't actually price them."
Look up the price differences on dated memorial cents. They run from about $5 (2000) to around $400 (2004) depending on date so you would need to include the dates.
---See above
I do agree that grades are not as important on error coins. >>
--Really, all that would be needed would be to note perhaps 3 grades, an then let the viewer see the spread and make price adjustments. For example, if you said: VF $50 MS-60 $150 MS-65 $500, then you could pretty easily see what the coin is worth. Price adjustments would be easy enough.
A general error coin price guide is not only possible but actually quite realistic, it's already been done. Arnie Margolis published one for a long time in ETCM, it was decent and took up 4 standard 8-1/2 X 11 double sided typewritten pages. That is just one historical source.
A comparison of two very different coins, but slabbed as similar errors, priced by what one individual claims to have paid for them is not a good gauge of the error coin market as a whole.
For those not actively involved in errors, the first coin pictured with a 90% indent is the one that would "price guide" higher than the second.
1. Can the date of the coin be seen?
2. What condition is the coin in.
Sub categories are determined by the collector and the collectors experience.
1. How common are errors for a specific year (such as 1983which has many many different Washington errors)?
2. How common is the error?
3. How difficult is the error to locate?
Typically, major error coins were either found in US Mint Bags OR smuggled out of the Mint. (i.e. 1973 and the infamous Forklift or perhaps 2000 with the Sacagawea Mules.)
Generally speaking, the type of error and condition of the error are probably the two most important factors which will command premiums.
As for pricing errors in general, that's totally up to the market and proper marketing.
For the OP's original two coins? Yes, remarkable differences yet labeled the same. The exact same scenario exists with incomplete planchets in that an "Incomplete Planchet" (i.e. clip) can be a single cut out or multiple cut outs. A minor cut out or a major cutout. Again, the condition of the coin plays a big part in valuation.
My experience has been that the higher the grade.......the higher the collectability and price. In other words, a circulated error just will not command the same premium as an uncirculated example of the same coin.
As with anything "coin related", proper marketing is a necessity.
The name is LEE!