<< <i>I am not as experienced at attending shows, but the local show I have attended for twelve years is almost always the same: there are 40-50 tables, 4-5 with some fairly good quality coins, but the majority with really awful, ugly and high priced coins. It is really depressing to me. It is proof positive that I would not be a collector without the internet and the ability to connect to dealers, sellers and other collectors around the country.
God bless the internet.
Tyler >>
Amen, and hallelujah.
I don't even have the local shows. There used to be an antique dealer who had a few coins, but after he retired, my own tiny antique mall booth briefly became the only game in town. And I'm done with that, now, so until somebody steps up, this area is a numismatic desert. God bless the Internet, indeed.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
The Internet has been as disruptive to coin collecting as it has been to other verticals. Maybe more in some instances.
Prior to Internet most people had to buy poor quality coins from locals not because they were settling for junk but frankly they had no context for what high quality looked like since they didn't even know it existed (other than rumor and second hand stories).
The Internet educated collectors (sort of like it educated consumers) and they began to have new opportunities to buy higher quality coins electronically. This put pressure on low quality widget inventory at local dealers/shows. Plus the evolution of a collector from just simply filling holes with "a" coin, which was an accomplishment when your available universe was a local coin show, to looking for "the" coin to add to their collection.
<< <i>The Internet has been as disruptive to coin collecting as it has been to other verticals. Maybe more in some instances.
Prior to Internet most people had to buy poor quality coins from locals not because they were settling for junk but frankly they had no context for what high quality looked like since they didn't even know it existed (other than rumor and second hand stories).
The Internet educated collectors (sort of like it educated consumers) and they began to have new opportunities to buy higher quality coins electronically. This put pressure on low quality widget inventory at local dealers/shows. Plus the evolution of a collector from just simply filling holes with "a" coin, which was an accomplishment when your available universe was a local coin show, to looking for "the" coin to add to their collection. >>
Completely agree.
This dead stock post is so telling of the differences across the forum population. some people are using 20 year old hobby reference points to assess the current state of the market.
Disruptive technologies do exactly that, disrupt the course and speed of markets, processes and people. Change or die. The whole B&M concept is dead and the internet has redefined the value equation of rare coins and left mass quantities of "dead stock" to languish at increasingly lower and lower prices. The asymmetry is painful to some and welcomed by others.
As to those who choose to hold this dead stock in inventory, cash is king and the branding of a business is as important as the inventory in it. Most successful dealers strive to turnover their inventory not just to manage cash flow but to provide fresh coins to customers as a means of building brand equity. If your brand is tied to "dead stock", good luck to you.
<< <i>"Dead stock" is a term for : "I priced my _____ too high " … or
"I paid too much and refuse to sell it at a loss." That's "dead stock". >>
BINGO! I was at a small coin show a little while ago. A dealer had a 20c piece in a PCGS holder F details, cleaned. The coin had very light cleaning. I asked the dealer 'how much' he looks at the coin, looks at the greysheet, flips the slab over, looks at the greysheet again and finally tells me he's buried in the coin and won't quote me a price. No doubt his estate will one day sell that coin for a lot less than I was willing to pay for it.
DPOTD-3 'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
<< <i>When I go to local shows what I see is case after case of unattractive and often cleaned/dipped inventory. The few coins that have some life left are either in plastic already or are significantly over-priced because they have some "pop". I agree that Dealers who aren't realistic in their pricing are asking for a miracle to sell this kind of inventory. I understand that they may need a higher price because they need to turn a profit to survive but at times they hurt their own cause.
Sometimes it's nice to just get things out of your sight and regroup. >>
If they would price the low-quality coins cheap enough, they'd sell. Everything moves at the right price. And besides, asking high prices for average/low quality coins will only hurt a dealer in the long run. It's a losing strategy.
<< <i>For the last ten years or so, I have found that in ADDITION to pricing not appropriate for the quality, the dreck that remains are mistakes by the Dealer. An unseen staple scratch, rim ding, overgrade are all examples of coins showing up in the same cases show after show. The Dealers have a hard time digesting their mistake, and are hoping for a newbie to come by and save their rear. So the equation goes something like this...... case full of problem coins= poor decisions by the Dealer....... case full of revolving inventory=informed Dealer with good business model. JMHO >>
It's unfortunate if some dealers are hoping for "noobies" to come by and purchase/bail out their "mistakes" if those mistakes aren't so noted. That is not a way to cultivate a new collector/buying base. Once a potential collector is "burned" in such a way,you may never see them again. >>
I have plenty of dead stock laying around. It is leftover from deals that I bought and sold, so my actual layout of money is pennies. I don't see any reason to just give it away. Some of this just accumulates over the years and before long it could add up. Some of it is a pain to get rid of when you look at the time and energy that it would require. Sometimes you know you should do something but just can not bring yourself to do it.
Before the big Lincoln birthday bash I used to bring my wife a bag or 2 or 4 a month of so called unsearched wheat cents. She would go thru them and pull all the good ones. Made up roll sets of all but the big 5 or 6 dates, got some slabbed etc. The other day I ran across a box of 2 x 2 that she put aside. Probably 100 errors. She was working on a laminated error set from 1909 to 1958 and has 25 to 30 examples of low grade laminates from before 1945. While I think it is cool it does not have great value and you could spend hours trying to photograph and sell them 1 at a time, errors that are hard to get good pics, BIE errors, cuds, etc. A lot of effort for little return and I have no money in them. Dead stock does not mean you have money tied up.
I would think most collectors have a little dead stock.
Mark NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!! working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
"""I have plenty of dead stock laying around. It is leftover from deals that I bought and sold, so my actual layout of money is pennies. I don't see any reason to just give it away. Some of this just accumulates over the years and before long it could add up. Some of it is a pain to get rid of when you look at the time and energy that it would require. Sometimes you know you should do something but just can not bring yourself to do it."""
It is not just coins, but seemingly everything now. My mom is a hoarder, and I am having to clear her house. Lots of "things" that once had value, now are effectively worthless. Knick Knacks, English Antique Furniture, Candlesticks, Prints, Silver plated stuff, etc. She is heart broken seeing her "stuff" either being sold WAY below what she feels it is worth, or worse, no one wanting it for WAY below what she feels it is worth. Due to her health, I have had to move her from her 4000' 2 story home, packed with STUFF to a 900' nice apartment in a senior living facility, so the STUFF has to go.
Stamps: unused sell for 80% of face. Coin business would boom if you sold 25c coins for 20 cents. Used: 90% could be burned, and it would not negatively impact the overall hobby. Hummel's, Wedgewood, Waterford: Overall market is dead, with some nice ones going for big $$ Precious Moments Figurines, Rockwell Plates: Beyond Dead. Brass Cash Registers: Priced about 1/4 of what they were 5 years ago. Film Cameras: Everyone had them, People Upgraded them, no one threw them away, so there are millions of old Nikons, Pentax, Cannon, etc. lurking everywhere.
I am a quasi-dealer of 1965 - 1970 Mustang Parts. At the swap meets, there is the same parts over and over: Old Tail Lights, Pitted door handles, cracked steering wheels, rusty fenders, on and on. These parts will never sell, but are dragged from meet to meet, year after year.
Outside of my interest, every other space has some Holley Carbs needing to be rebuilt, spread bore Chevy 4 barrel cast iron intakes (they made millions of these), etc.
I have a 1930 Model A. For the 40 years I have owned it, there are always rusted, holed, bent fenders for sale, probably the same ones being dragged for 40 years.
Even 50 year old, brand new in the box, Factory equipment languishes if it is the wrong stuff. For example, 3 .040 oversized 260 Ford engine pistons. The engine takes 8, .040 is not a size used anymore, plus everyone wants forged, not cast, pistons. So these will be dragged around, dead inventory, forever.
The best (worse) statement on Dead Inventory was a video, reenactment of some WWII battle between the Germans and Brits. The German Army was Hummel's and the Brits were Wedgewood. The items were "maneuvering" in the battle, and off camera, people had pellet guns shooting the items. By the end of the battle, everything was destroyed.
I think the best thing would be Copper at $10 an ounce, Nickel at $30, and Silver at $100, with no restrictions on melting coins.
Would someone please give some examples of the types of coins we are talking about. When threads like this come up I always wonder what exactly we are talking about.
<< <i>Would someone please give some examples of the types of coins we are talking about. When threads like this come up I always wonder what exactly we are talking about. >>
Personal examples of stuff that I have held for over a couple of years are a lot of no date Buffs (not worth messing with). An MS64 PL common Morgan in a doily holder (paid too much in the heat of bidding). A war era Lincoln cent struck on an off alloy planchet (didn't know what I was doing and overpaid).
Coins discussed run the gamut. The vast majority of what I have bought for resale has sold quickly at a modest profit. Don't need the money so no need to take the losses on the financial clunkers.......yet.
"Dead stock" is an ambiguous term. Everything's dead stock if someone thinks it's overpriced...but nothing's dead stock if they're willing to give it away. Many buyers overuse terms like this, usually stemming from an inability to own something they want at their price.
With some of the smaller club shows, I tend to agree to a point with some issues raised here. Same guys with the same stuff that they've dragged around to the last 10-15 shows. Either they're buried or stubborn but either way they don't seem to care. In my experience these are normally part timers or old guys who don't need or want to blow it off. They can apparently afford to wait until they find a willing buyer at or close to their number (or until the market rises to a level where it's an easier sell). Shows with a higher percentage of full time dealers tend to have less of this phenomenon IMO...but regardless, you can always find someone who has a couple of pet coins he's in love with (myself included).
<< <i>"Dead stock" is an ambiguous term. Everything's dead stock if someone thinks it's overpriced...but nothing's dead stock if they're willing to give it away. Many buyers overuse terms like this, usually stemming from an inability to own something they want at their price. >>
Maybe true, but if a coin sits for years, then it is overpriced based on every single buyer that exists that refuses to buy at the listed price. By definition, that is overpriced.
To me - "Dead Stock" are coins that are raw, cleaned / problematic, ugly / unattractive, that are offered at the SAME price points that quality TPG coins sell for just because the coin's technical grade is the same. I have seen dealer's offerings that are row and row of cleaned (badly cleaned) coins that are listed at retail prices for their technical grade. That is dead stock.
<< <i>Would someone please give some examples of the types of coins we are talking about. When threads like this come up I always wonder what exactly we are talking about. >>
Personal examples of stuff that I have held for over a couple of years are a lot of no date Buffs (not worth messing with). An MS64 PL common Morgan in a doily holder (paid too much in the heat of bidding). A war era Lincoln cent struck on an off alloy planchet (didn't know what I was doing and overpaid).
Coins discussed run the gamut. The vast majority of what I have bought for resale has sold quickly at a modest profit. Don't need the money so no need to take the losses on the financial clunkers.......yet. >>
I agree with the OP and have noticed this online and at shows. A lot of numismatic dealerships have "Silver and Gold" as part of the business name and a number of dealers have switched to mods as they tell me "all the money has been wrung out of them" (classic coins). The grey and blue sheets have been largely dead in the water on bids for Numismatic Coins. In addition to bullion, I track coins that ordinary collectors can buy like MS65 Dollars, the 48 type commem set in MS65 as an index input, the MS 65 short set of walkers as an index input. I am interested in what the "real coin market" is doing not some expensive non gold coin over $300 - $500.
I have decided to put a hold on the number of non gold numismatic slabs in my inventory and increase: Slabbed US Gold Type Coins (putting them away), Quality Certified US Currency, Slabbed World Gold (putting them away), CC coins when the premium above bid is not too obnoxious, and occasional World Banknotes acquired significantly below Pick CV. My show inventory will mainly be paper with some modern slabbed silver commems and US mint products. All gold has been put away for the long term in my bank boxes and is off the market for now. Currency is lightweight and easy to carry in a briefcase and not the hassle getting thru airport security coins can be. More expensive US numismatic non gold coins are on my website for sale at retail only with a few at $5 over bid just to see if they will even buy that. Occasionally coins sell at retail and bring good money but this is not the volume needed for this market group to be viable from a business point of view. I also have USM products in my online store but sales have been really slow. My bankbox full of slabbed silver mods (Dollars) has become so heavy (and its the largest size) its full to capacity.
I don't believe price is an issue as I have had trouble selling many non gold slabbed numismatic coins at say Bid + $5 (both online and at shows) or listing in auction at 1 cent below bid. What this tells me is people either do not have the money or not willing to pay the money - just looking for what they can rip - Tire Kickers. I don't buy the nonsense about generic or modern world silver and gold coins being "dreck" as these can be fun to accumulate vs some expensive coin with the holder, sticker, and grading game which can result in a huge loss (except for the dealer who got 40-50% above CDN Bid or even much more).
People are spending their big money on travel, entertainment (look at the expense of Pro Football season tickets), Video Games like GTA Online, a Strip Club VIP, or Sugar Baby.
It could be the market is on the brink of a big run up like what happened post 1964. I just don't know exactly what will trigger it.
Back to the OP's point about overall sales being in decline, I think dead stock involves more than problem coins. I think common mid to lower grade coins, problem free or not, are pretty dead. Most Liberty nickels in VF or lower would be pretty good candidates. Or common date seated material, Indian cents, etc etc.
"Dead stock": many of the old time small-fry vest pocket type dealers have all they own tied up in their inventory. Many dealers on here are the successful ones, they have retirement accounts and inventory. The people I'm referring to it's one and the same. Would you sell your retirement account for pennies on the dollar? I agree this is wrong, but it how some of these guys look at it. You do still see lots of these guys at small shows. FWIW, I did meet a dealer once that worked like this on a higher-end basis he had boxes of slabbed key date VF-AU IHCs, Lincolns, etc. stacks of them priced at full retail. He said all of his retirement funds were in the cases.
I was an early eBay user and I have been waiting for a crash when people or their families find out they've bought nothing but dreck (in many collectible fields) forever. Is this happening now? I don't know. Knowledgeable collectors put this down, but how many millions of widgets have been sold this way. If you sat at a show and opened a melt bag and started putting the coins in 2x2's and pricing them, people would laugh at you, but that is exactly what happens on eBay every day. I agree with the wish that prices would rise and the stuff would get destroyed, but there are bags and bags of PR-AG Barbers, etc. that have survived melt after melt.
Comments
<< <i>I am not as experienced at attending shows, but the local show I have attended for twelve years is almost always the same: there are 40-50 tables, 4-5 with some fairly good quality coins, but the majority with really awful, ugly and high priced coins. It is really depressing to me. It is proof positive that I would not be a collector without the internet and the ability to connect to dealers, sellers and other collectors around the country.
God bless the internet.
Tyler >>
Amen, and hallelujah.
I don't even have the local shows. There used to be an antique dealer who had a few coins, but after he retired, my own tiny antique mall booth briefly became the only game in town. And I'm done with that, now, so until somebody steps up, this area is a numismatic desert. God bless the Internet, indeed.
Collector since 1976. On the CU forums here since 2001.
Prior to Internet most people had to buy poor quality coins from locals not because they were settling for junk but frankly they had no context for what high quality looked like since they didn't even know it existed (other than rumor and second hand stories).
The Internet educated collectors (sort of like it educated consumers) and they began to have new opportunities to buy higher quality coins electronically. This put pressure on low quality widget inventory at local dealers/shows. Plus the evolution of a collector from just simply filling holes with "a" coin, which was an accomplishment when your available universe was a local coin show, to looking for "the" coin to add to their collection.
<< <i>The Internet has been as disruptive to coin collecting as it has been to other verticals. Maybe more in some instances.
Prior to Internet most people had to buy poor quality coins from locals not because they were settling for junk but frankly they had no context for what high quality looked like since they didn't even know it existed (other than rumor and second hand stories).
The Internet educated collectors (sort of like it educated consumers) and they began to have new opportunities to buy higher quality coins electronically. This put pressure on low quality widget inventory at local dealers/shows. Plus the evolution of a collector from just simply filling holes with "a" coin, which was an accomplishment when your available universe was a local coin show, to looking for "the" coin to add to their collection. >>
Completely agree.
This dead stock post is so telling of the differences across the forum population. some people are using 20 year old hobby reference points to assess the current state of the market.
Disruptive technologies do exactly that, disrupt the course and speed of markets, processes and people. Change or die. The whole B&M concept is dead and the internet has redefined the value equation of rare coins and left mass quantities of "dead stock" to languish at increasingly lower and lower prices. The asymmetry is painful to some and welcomed by others.
As to those who choose to hold this dead stock in inventory, cash is king and the branding of a business is as important as the inventory in it. Most successful dealers strive to turnover their inventory not just to manage cash flow but to provide fresh coins to customers as a means of building brand equity. If your brand is tied to "dead stock", good luck to you.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>The Internet has been as disruptive to coin collecting as it has been to other verticals. Maybe more in some instances. >>
It has certainly slammed the market with Chinese fakes.
<< <i>"Dead stock" is a term for : "I priced my _____ too high "
… or
"I paid too much and refuse to sell it at a loss." That's "dead stock". >>
BINGO! I was at a small coin show a little while ago. A dealer had a 20c piece in a PCGS holder F details, cleaned. The coin had very light cleaning. I asked the dealer 'how much' he looks at the coin, looks at the greysheet, flips the slab over, looks at the greysheet again and finally tells me he's buried in the coin and won't quote me a price. No doubt his estate will one day sell that coin for a lot less than I was willing to pay for it.
DPOTD-3
'Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery'
CU #3245 B.N.A. #428
Don
<< <i>When I go to local shows what I see is case after case of unattractive and often cleaned/dipped inventory. The few coins that have some life left are either in plastic already or are significantly over-priced because they have some "pop". I agree that Dealers who aren't realistic in their pricing are asking for a miracle to sell this kind of inventory. I understand that they may need a higher price because they need to turn a profit to survive but at times they hurt their own cause.
Sometimes it's nice to just get things out of your sight and regroup. >>
If they would price the low-quality coins cheap enough, they'd sell. Everything moves at the right price. And besides, asking high prices for average/low quality coins will only hurt a dealer in the long run. It's a losing strategy.
<< <i>
<< <i>For the last ten years or so, I have found that in ADDITION to pricing not appropriate for the quality, the dreck that remains are mistakes by the Dealer. An unseen staple scratch, rim ding, overgrade are all
examples of coins showing up in the same cases show after show. The Dealers have a hard time digesting their mistake, and are hoping for a newbie to come by and save their rear. So the equation goes
something like this...... case full of problem coins= poor decisions by the Dealer....... case full of revolving inventory=informed Dealer with good business model. JMHO >>
It's unfortunate if some dealers are hoping for "noobies" to come by and purchase/bail out their "mistakes" if those mistakes aren't so noted. That is not a way to cultivate a new collector/buying base. Once a potential collector is "burned" in such a way,you may never see them again. >>
I absolutely agree.
Before the big Lincoln birthday bash I used to bring my wife a bag or 2 or 4 a month of so called unsearched wheat cents. She would go thru them and pull all the good ones. Made up roll sets of all but the big 5 or 6 dates, got some slabbed etc. The other day I ran across a box of 2 x 2 that she put aside. Probably 100 errors. She was working on a laminated error set from 1909 to 1958 and has 25 to 30 examples of low grade laminates from before 1945. While I think it is cool it does not have great value and you could spend hours trying to photograph and sell them 1 at a time, errors that are hard to get good pics, BIE errors, cuds, etc. A lot of effort for little return and I have no money in them. Dead stock does not mean you have money tied up.
I would think most collectors have a little dead stock.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
POTD!
Stamps: unused sell for 80% of face. Coin business would boom if you sold 25c coins for 20 cents. Used: 90% could be burned, and it would not negatively impact the overall hobby.
Hummel's, Wedgewood, Waterford: Overall market is dead, with some nice ones going for big $$
Precious Moments Figurines, Rockwell Plates: Beyond Dead.
Brass Cash Registers: Priced about 1/4 of what they were 5 years ago.
Film Cameras: Everyone had them, People Upgraded them, no one threw them away, so there are millions of old Nikons, Pentax, Cannon, etc. lurking everywhere.
I am a quasi-dealer of 1965 - 1970 Mustang Parts. At the swap meets, there is the same parts over and over: Old Tail Lights, Pitted door handles, cracked steering wheels, rusty fenders, on and on. These parts will never sell, but are dragged from meet to meet, year after year.
Outside of my interest, every other space has some Holley Carbs needing to be rebuilt, spread bore Chevy 4 barrel cast iron intakes (they made millions of these), etc.
I have a 1930 Model A. For the 40 years I have owned it, there are always rusted, holed, bent fenders for sale, probably the same ones being dragged for 40 years.
Even 50 year old, brand new in the box, Factory equipment languishes if it is the wrong stuff. For example, 3 .040 oversized 260 Ford engine pistons. The engine takes 8, .040 is not a size used anymore, plus everyone wants forged, not cast, pistons. So these will be dragged around, dead inventory, forever.
The best (worse) statement on Dead Inventory was a video, reenactment of some WWII battle between the Germans and Brits. The German Army was Hummel's and the Brits were Wedgewood. The items were "maneuvering" in the battle, and off camera, people had pellet guns shooting the items. By the end of the battle, everything was destroyed.
I think the best thing would be Copper at $10 an ounce, Nickel at $30, and Silver at $100, with no restrictions on melting coins.
<< <i>Would someone please give some examples of the types of coins we are talking about. When threads like this come up I always wonder what exactly we are talking about. >>
Personal examples of stuff that I have held for over a couple of years are a lot of no date Buffs (not worth messing with). An MS64 PL common Morgan in a doily holder (paid too much in the heat of bidding). A war era Lincoln cent struck on an off alloy planchet (didn't know what I was doing and overpaid).
Coins discussed run the gamut. The vast majority of what I have bought for resale has sold quickly at a modest profit. Don't need the money so no need to take the losses on the financial clunkers.......yet.
With some of the smaller club shows, I tend to agree to a point with some issues raised here. Same guys with the same stuff that they've dragged around to the last 10-15 shows. Either they're buried or stubborn but either way they don't seem to care. In my experience these are normally part timers or old guys who don't need or want to blow it off. They can apparently afford to wait until they find a willing buyer at or close to their number (or until the market rises to a level where it's an easier sell). Shows with a higher percentage of full time dealers tend to have less of this phenomenon IMO...but regardless, you can always find someone who has a couple of pet coins he's in love with (myself included).
RIP Mom- 1932-2012
<< <i>"Dead stock" is an ambiguous term. Everything's dead stock if someone thinks it's overpriced...but nothing's dead stock if they're willing to give it away. Many buyers overuse terms like this, usually stemming from an inability to own something they want at their price.
>>
Maybe true, but if a coin sits for years, then it is overpriced based on every single buyer that exists that refuses to buy at the listed price. By definition, that is overpriced.
To me - "Dead Stock" are coins that are raw, cleaned / problematic, ugly / unattractive, that are offered at the SAME price points that quality TPG coins sell for just because the coin's technical grade is the same. I have seen dealer's offerings that are row and row of cleaned (badly cleaned) coins that are listed at retail prices for their technical grade. That is dead stock.
Tyler
<< <i>
<< <i>Would someone please give some examples of the types of coins we are talking about. When threads like this come up I always wonder what exactly we are talking about. >>
Personal examples of stuff that I have held for over a couple of years are a lot of no date Buffs (not worth messing with). An MS64 PL common Morgan in a doily holder (paid too much in the heat of bidding). A war era Lincoln cent struck on an off alloy planchet (didn't know what I was doing and overpaid).
Coins discussed run the gamut. The vast majority of what I have bought for resale has sold quickly at a modest profit. Don't need the money so no need to take the losses on the financial clunkers.......yet.
Thanks
I have decided to put a hold on the number of non gold numismatic slabs in my inventory and increase: Slabbed US Gold Type Coins (putting them away), Quality Certified US Currency, Slabbed World Gold (putting them away), CC coins when the premium above bid is not too obnoxious, and occasional World Banknotes acquired significantly below Pick CV. My show inventory will mainly be paper with some modern slabbed silver commems and US mint products. All gold has been put away for the long term in my bank boxes and is off the market for now. Currency is lightweight and easy to carry in a briefcase and not the hassle getting thru airport security coins can be. More expensive US numismatic non gold coins are on my website for sale at retail only with a few at $5 over bid just to see if they will even buy that. Occasionally coins sell at retail and bring good money but this is not the volume needed for this market group to be viable from a business point of view. I also have USM products in my online store but sales have been really slow. My bankbox full of slabbed silver mods (Dollars) has become so heavy (and its the largest size) its full to capacity.
I don't believe price is an issue as I have had trouble selling many non gold slabbed numismatic coins at say Bid + $5 (both online and at shows) or listing in auction at 1 cent below bid. What this tells me is people either do not have the money or not willing to pay the money - just looking for what they can rip - Tire Kickers. I don't buy the nonsense about generic or modern world silver and gold coins being "dreck" as these can be fun to accumulate vs some expensive coin with the holder, sticker, and grading game which can result in a huge loss (except for the dealer who got 40-50% above CDN Bid or even much more).
People are spending their big money on travel, entertainment (look at the expense of Pro Football season tickets), Video Games like GTA Online, a Strip Club VIP, or Sugar Baby.
It could be the market is on the brink of a big run up like what happened post 1964. I just don't know exactly what will trigger it.
I think common mid to lower grade coins, problem free or not, are pretty dead. Most Liberty nickels in VF or lower
would be pretty good candidates. Or common date seated material, Indian cents, etc etc.
"Dead stock": many of the old time small-fry vest pocket type dealers have all they own tied up in their inventory. Many dealers on here are the successful ones, they have retirement accounts and inventory. The people I'm referring to it's one and the same. Would you sell your retirement account for pennies on the dollar? I agree this is wrong, but it how some of these guys look at it. You do still see lots of these guys at small shows. FWIW, I did meet a dealer once that worked like this on a higher-end basis he had boxes of slabbed key date VF-AU IHCs, Lincolns, etc. stacks of them priced at full retail. He said all of his retirement funds were in the cases.
I was an early eBay user and I have been waiting for a crash when people or their families find out they've bought nothing but dreck (in many collectible fields) forever. Is this happening now? I don't know. Knowledgeable collectors put this down, but how many millions of widgets have been sold this way. If you sat at a show and opened a melt bag and started putting the coins in 2x2's and pricing them, people would laugh at you, but that is exactly what happens on eBay every day. I agree with the wish that prices would rise and the stuff would get destroyed, but there are bags and bags of PR-AG Barbers, etc. that have survived melt after melt.