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COLLECTOR OWNS 53 1909VDB MATTE PROOF LINCOLN CENTS/WITH LINK TO CW

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  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    I wish I could download the article from Coin World here so everyone could read it. It contains some very interesting facts including details on the grades and color on all 53 coins. Unfortunately, you must be a subscriber to see it and it is proprietary. Steveimage

    LINK to the story at COIN WORLD is NOW available. http://www.coinworld.com/insights/matte-proof-lincoln-cent-collector-focuses-on-vdb-variety.all.html
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I cannot see why one collector needs to hold so many examples of one issue. If you are really that interested, you can collect photographs and notes to further your knowledge. Holding on to a significant portion of a scarce to rare issue shows little regard for the hobby. I thing that this hobby works best when many collectors can enjoy it, not just a few.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • OverdateOverdate Posts: 7,157 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hmmm ... I think I will start hoarding 1913 Liberty Nickels and 1804 dollars ... image >>


    You should already have a head start, don't you have all but five of the 1913 Liberty nickels? image

    My Adolph A. Weinman signature :)

  • crypto79crypto79 Posts: 8,623


    << <i>I cannot see why one collector needs to hold so many examples of one issue. If you are really that interested, you can collect photographs and notes to further your knowledge. Holding on to a significant portion of a scarce to rare issue shows little regard for the hobby. I thing that this hobby works best when many collectors can enjoy it, not just a few. >>



    This sounds a little bitter. The same logic can be applied to owning one issue and holding it for a long time as being selfish. Collecting basically means amassing and the definition of ones targets is up to them. We are all hoarders somewhat and if he wants to collect one thing or issue, I personally see no difference to him or date collectors, type collectors or roll collectors.
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>I cannot see why one collector needs to hold so many examples of one issue. If you are really that interested, you can collect photographs and notes to further your knowledge. Holding on to a significant portion of a scarce to rare issue shows little regard for the hobby. I thing that this hobby works best when many collectors can enjoy it, not just a few. >>



    This sounds a little bitter. The same logic can be applied to owning one issue and holding it for a long time as being selfish. Collecting basically means amassing and the definition of ones targets is up to them. We are all hoarders somewhat and if he wants to collect one thing or issue, I personally see no difference to him or date collectors, type collectors or roll collectors. >>



    You see no difference? Aside from from the roll collector I see a lot of difference. You call me bitter? I resent that remark. I share more with other collectors that most people here. I write an article every month for my local club. I speak to local clubs for no fees. I give free advice to those who contact me. I have very few duplicates in my collection and no hoards.

    As I said I believe in as many people learning about and enjoying this hobby. I that's "bitter" then toy have an odd conception of the term.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are many collections out there that don't see the light of day very often.

    It seems like what is different about this one is that hoarding key date may prevent people from finishing collections.
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I am perplexed about the prevailing opinion among many members which seems to be that there is some sort of "Right of Ownership" with this specific coin. if you feel that you deserve to be able to own a 1909 VDB Matte Proof Lincoln Cent you should post as much at the BST with a price commensurate with what you think is your right to own the coin, keep adding to that amount as time passes and I guarantee you'll own one eventually. to think you have some sort of a right to own anything such as this is absurd. so is the notion that the individual hoarding them is doing something wrong. those who think it is greed or some other human flaw might consider their own flaw: jealousy.
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>

    It seems like what is different about this one is that hoarding key date may prevent people from finishing collections. >>



    You may be correct in that this hoarder apparently OUTBID many other bidders over a long period of time at various auctions in order to acquire the 53 1909VDB MPL's. Every underbidder lost an opportunity to acquire one of the coins during all those years. Steveimage
  • wondercoinwondercoin Posts: 16,997 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I bought a Pr65RB off Teletrade for $7,000 or $8,000 (as I recall) that this guy obviously missed!

    Go Teletrade!!

    Wondercoin
    Please visit my website at www.wondercoins.com and my ebay auctions under my user name www.wondercoin.com.
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There was a collector who was hoarding 1864 With L Proof Indians. He had eight of them, or so I calculated. Two turned out to be copper patterns, but the others were not. They just sold last year through Heritage, unreserved. They were broken up into four different sales. Prices were fair to low.

    It seems to me that the dispersal of a hoard is much more important than the accumulation. The 1864 With L's could have been placed over three years time at much higher prices than they received at auction. Now that they are sold, there will be very few coming up for sale because of the lower auction prices. AB got a steal!

    The 1909 VDB Proofs might take longer to place, but as long as the asking prices are fair and not over market, then they could all be sold without disrupting the market. As far as I know they are not for sale except maybe if someone wants to buy them all in one group. And apparently, he is still accumulating.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I wonder how many he'll end up owning.

    Is there a registry set?
  • JustacommemanJustacommeman Posts: 22,852 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To each their own. Why the concern about selling? Clearly this is not the collectors problem. >>



    Agree. MJ
    Walker Proof Digital Album
    Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    I see nothing wrong with a guy/gal hoarding up key dates. I am surprised they are making a news story out of it, I would not like it known if they were mine. I am surprised some view it as wrong and greedy. I got no issue if he wants to punch a hole at 12 o'clock and make a necklace. He owns them to do as he sees fit. He does not owe anyone on here an explanation. If I could buy all of some date I like and had the money, watch out.image We collectors are a fickle bunch.

    I would be happy with a all out single dump at some time so I could finally have enough cents to buy one.
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • luckybucksluckybucks Posts: 1,318 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Imagine 53 1909 VDB matte proof Lincoln cents hitting Heritage all at once! >>



    Yeah, hopefully the value on these doesn't tank.
  • machoponchomachoponcho Posts: 355 ✭✭✭


    << <i>If it were me I would have kept this hoard a secret. A hoard this large overhanging the market can't help the value of this coin. >>



    At first glance you would think this were true, and it might be. However, the opposite could prove true. I talked to a dealer at a show who told me he heard of a single collector actively hoarding a certain Classic Silver Commem. As a result, this dealer bought a few of them before he perceived the supply might dry up. Get a dozen or so dealers reacting like that and that in itself drives the price and demand up.

    Very interesting story about this hoard of 53 VDB MP. It depends at what stage of the hoard the person is in. If they are still a very strong buyer and buying every VDB MP in sight, this could cause an immediate rise in price in a few years and work to create more demand and then silently sell a few here a few there starting a few years down the road. If the hoarder is already getting ready to sell, then I say it is not a good move to divulge this information on this hoard so publically.
    I have existed since the creation of this world and will exist until its end. Only my form will change. For these 80 human life years, I have the benefit of having a functioning body and consciousness. I will not waste this opportunity.
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭
    To further clarify the discussion concerning this unidentified collector as reported in the Coin World article, he has apparently come forward now PUBLICALLY because he wants to SELL his collection of 53 1909VDB MPL's. The exact words in the article are: "Now, however, the collector has decided to sell his collection through a dealer, though details on dispersion of the collection have not been released yet."

    I "sense" he would like to have the entire collection remain intact although I also "sense" such a thing is improbable. BUT, what IF a dealer, say Laura at LEGEND, decided to "invest $2 to $3 million" for ownership of 1/3 of all the 1909VDB MPL's that have been certified by the third party graders in the last 28 years. She could then disperse the coins over time AND supposedly control the pricing. Does this thought make sense to you? Steveimage
  • SethChandlerSethChandler Posts: 1,719 ✭✭✭✭
    I find it staggering that 53 examples could be acquired. Wow.

    I think as collectors, we all fantasize about hoarding a particular coin or two.

    I remember a fellow member here had a bunch of 1878-CC Dimes - I thought that was really neat!
    Collecting since 1976.
  • bolivarshagnastybolivarshagnasty Posts: 7,352 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>To further clarify the discussion concerning this unidentified collector as reported in the Coin World article, he has apparently come forward now PUBLICALLY because he wants to SELL his collection of 53 1909VDB MPL's. The exact words in the article are: "Now, however, the collector has decided to sell his collection through a dealer, though details on dispersion of the collection have not been released yet."

    I "sense" he would like to have the entire collection remain intact although I also "sense" such a thing is improbable. BUT, what IF a dealer, say Laura at LEGEND, decided to "invest $2 to $3 million" for ownership of 1/3 of all the 1909VDB MPL's that have been certified by the third party graders in the last 28 years. She could then disperse the coins over time AND supposedly control the pricing. Does this thought make sense to you? Steveimage >>



    Just the fact that I now know of this hoard, would make me shy about investing in one. This whole scenario was NOT very well played by the owner of these coins. It would still be just a rumor if he had dispersed one at every
    major auction for the next few years. The prices may have held up better. JMHO
  • BillJonesBillJones Posts: 34,773 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think as collectors, we all fantasize about hoarding a particular coin or two. >>



    No, I don't. I am very much into diversity in my collection. I could count on less than one hand the duplicates that I have regretted selling over the years. One in particular was an 1849 "No L" one dollar gold piece that was struck with a shattered reverse die. That is mainly from the historical perspective to show the problems Longacre had in producing a set of appropriate gold dollar dies.

    I really don't admire people and companies who try to control markets.
    Retired dealer and avid collector of U.S. type coins, 19th century presidential campaign medalets and selected medals. In recent years I have been working on a set of British coins - at least one coin from each king or queen who issued pieces that are collectible. I am also collecting at least one coin for each Roman emperor from Julius Caesar to ... ?
  • keetskeets Posts: 25,351 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bill, although you now consider yourself a collector you were a dealer for so long that your mindset is entrenched forever as a dealer. it is a burden you must bear.image
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From the story:

    "Now, however, the collector has decided to sell his collection through a dealer, though details on dispersion of the collection have not been released as yet."

    Should make things interesting in the next few years.
    Doug
  • pennyanniepennyannie Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭
    Maybe another Amazon coin offering is coming our way complete with liner notes, a deluxe box and a bag of truly unsearched wheat cents. lol
    Mark
    NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
    working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!

    RIP "BEAR"
  • curlycurly Posts: 2,880
    I have good reason to believe this story is true.
    Every man is a self made man.
  • OldIndianNutKaseOldIndianNutKase Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Our hobby has truly astronomical parallels. We now have a collector of 1909 VDB matte proof Lincoln cents who has 50+ specimens. He is not so much a hoarder as he is a Black Hole for 1909 VDB Lincoln proofs. One might have to wait for billions of years to reclaim something sucked into a black hole, but now numismatic black holes will renergize the collector base upon explosion.

    I appreciate the collector of the 1909 VDB proofs, as he/she has added a new dimension to our coin collecting universe. This is the most interesting thread of this year.

    OINK
  • ShamikaShamika Posts: 18,785 ✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I think as collectors, we all fantasize about hoarding a particular coin or two. >>



    I have never been interested in hoarding any item. In fact, as soon as I upgrade an item, I'm quick to sell/trade whatever duplicate I then have.





    Buyer and seller of vintage coin boards!
  • ZoinsZoins Posts: 34,401 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>

    << <i>Imagine 53 1909 VDB matte proof Lincoln cents hitting Heritage all at once! >>



    Yeah, hopefully the value on these doesn't tank. >>



    Might be worth selling before this collector divests?
  • DMWJRDMWJR Posts: 6,040 ✭✭✭✭✭
    It will suck for those with low grades, but if you have paid right for the right coin over the last 20 year, your value will only go up.
    Doug
  • cwtcwt Posts: 292 ✭✭✭


    << <i>I am happy to now provide you to a link to the story at Coin World.

    http://www.coinworld.com/insights/matte-proof-lincoln-cent-collector-focuses-on-vdb-variety.all.html

    Steveimage >>



    "linkified"
  • SteveSteve Posts: 3,312 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Our hobby has truly astronomical parallels. We now have a collector of 1909 VDB matte proof Lincoln cents who has 50+ specimens. He is not so much a hoarder as he is a Black Hole for 1909 VDB Lincoln proofs. One might have to wait for billions of years to reclaim something sucked into a black hole, but now numismatic black holes will renergize the collector base upon explosion.

    I appreciate the collector of the 1909 VDB proofs, as he/she has added a new dimension to our coin collecting universe. This is the most interesting thread of this year.

    OINK >>



    David and others,
    I don't know much about "Black Holes" but I do know that this situation presents a unique opportunity for the collector and the dealer of PROOF Lincoln cents. The 1909VDB MPL has always been the KEY coin of the collection whether one collects just the "wheat ears". the "matte proofs" or the entire series (1909 to date). Most collectors of this series believed just about all 1909VDB MPL's were in the hands of collectors, NOT dealers. Certainly, in the past 15 years, I can count on my hands the number of ads appearing in Coin World or other numismatic publications offering to SELL this coin. Realistically, the only way a collector could get this coin for his collection was thru an auction or by private treaty with a dealer who had a client willing to sell. What has changed now that the owner of these 53 coins has made this information PUBLIC is that both collectors and dealers KNOW these coins are available for SALE! I can imagine a number of dealers who would like to acquire some of these coins to sell to their customers who collect Lincoln cents. They also would be happy to be able to advertise that they have this coin for sale. Meanwhile, those collectors who thought they could never afford to acquire this coin for their collection may now feel it may be possible. The supply has suddenly opened up. Will the demand meet the supply? Will one major dealer buy the collection intact as I theorized in an earlier post in this thread? Or will these coins be spread out to a number of dealers to sell. And the top dozen, the PR66's and PR 67's, will there be a few major auctions to place these coins with those collectors who want to upgrade?
    It is probably too early to guess how this will all play out, but I had fun throwing out my ideas. Steveimage
  • EagleEyeEagleEye Posts: 7,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The existence of this hoard was well known by the dealers and collectors who have an interest in Lincoln cents and Matte Proof Lincolns for at least a year, longer for a select few. It had been quietly offered as a group lot for a pretty big chunk of money. The sale of the 67+RB made a few sales possible, like the 66RD that sold for $110K at the ANA. That this collector bought it (the PR67+RB) shows that he is not interested in selling them cheap. It appears from the article that a dealer has already been selected to disperse the hoard. So long as they are not dumped at auction, the market should hold up for them. Compare the Saddle Ridge hoard, Central America hoard and the Beck hoard of 1856 Flying Eagles (all handled by dealers at fixed prices) to the recent 1864 With L Proof hoard and the 1844 dime hoard that were sold at auction unreserved.

    I recently bought an 1909 VDB MPL knowing full well that the hoard existed and was being shopped.
    Rick Snow, Eagle Eye Rare Coins, Inc.Check out my new web site:
  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,722 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Sorry, but I think the hoard is a cool one. >>



    image

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,722 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Maybe his goal is acquire al of these coins and then thin the herd by melting all but between 1 - 10 of the best of the best.

    Reduce the supply by getting rid of the ones that are not he bestof the best and then wait to see if he demand for the remaining 1 - 10 best coins goes through the roof, along with the market value. >>



    Terrible idea and would hurt the hobby and the coins for posterity.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • WalkerfanWalkerfan Posts: 9,722 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>That's a pretty cool story! Whether you think he's a friend to collectors or not, everybody has a right to collect/hoard/amass whatever they want ... it's a free country, after all, and folks like this certainly help to keep demand up! When I used to do one particular show, there was one guy that would buy all the 1933-S Walking Liberty halves you had, if the price was right, from AG to Mint State. Just 1933-S halves, nothing else. Needless to say he had a ton of 'em! I haven't seen him in a good while.

    Best Regards,

    George >>



    I knew a guy who did this with the MS 38-D Walkers.....I told him that the MS pops were unusually high for this issue as they were saved in large quantities but he didn't care. He bought one every month or so.

    Sometimes, it’s better to be LUCKY than good. 🍀 🍺👍

    My Full Walker Registry Set (1916-1947):

    https://www.ngccoin.com/registry/competitive-sets/16292/

  • Walkerguy21DWalkerguy21D Posts: 11,680 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>I knew a guy who did this with the MS 38-D Walkers.....I told him that the MS pops were unusually high for this issue as they were saved in large quantities but he didn't care. He bought one every month or so. >>


    Very true - for years it was a much harder coin to find in true AU than in MS....I always thought it was overpriced, and mid sized shows would have multiple examples on the floor. But either this fellow or others have had an effect over the years, as even big shows like FUN seem to only have a few on the floor. But the auctions always seem to have examples if someone needs one.




    Successful BST transactions with 171 members. Ebeneezer, Tonedeaf, Shane6596, Piano1, Ikenefic, RG, PCGSPhoto, stman, Don'tTelltheWife, Boosibri, Ron1968, snowequities, VTchaser, jrt103, SurfinxHI, 78saen, bp777, FHC, RYK, JTHawaii, Opportunity, Kliao, bigtime36, skanderbeg, split37, thebigeng, acloco, Toninginthblood, OKCC, braddick, Coinflip, robcool, fastfreddie, tightbudget, DBSTrader2, nickelsciolist, relaxn, Eagle eye, soldi, silverman68, ElKevvo, sawyerjosh, Schmitz7, talkingwalnut2, konsole, sharkman987, sniocsu, comma, jesbroken, David1234, biosolar, Sullykerry, Moldnut, erwindoc, MichaelDixon, GotTheBug

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