Please help me educate a coin buyer
kryptonitecomics
Posts: 9,185 ✭
I don't usually do this but when an coin buyer contacts me and wants to return a graded coin because the perfectly good slab has supposedly been tampered with then I hope that seeing comments from others might actually sink it. He certainly doesn't believe me as the seller and it's not like he would consider calling PCGS and asking them about the sonic sealing process to verify I am not feeding him a line of bull.
The buyer purchased this coin which was just graded by PCGS recently:
1952 Franklin Half PCGS MS65
He receives the coin today and says he has to return it as:
"Upon close inspection of the case it appears like someone attempted to open it or it has been opened hence the frosty white appearance."
He includes the following pictures as proof the the slab has been tampered with:
I tried to explain that due to the nature of the sonic sealing process no two seems look just alike as plastic melts differently each time but he insists has has 20 other slabs that don't look like this. So even though there is clearly not a scratch on any of the edges....the fact that he can see the white through the plastic is proof of the slab being pried open.
The buyer purchased this coin which was just graded by PCGS recently:
1952 Franklin Half PCGS MS65
He receives the coin today and says he has to return it as:
"Upon close inspection of the case it appears like someone attempted to open it or it has been opened hence the frosty white appearance."
He includes the following pictures as proof the the slab has been tampered with:
I tried to explain that due to the nature of the sonic sealing process no two seems look just alike as plastic melts differently each time but he insists has has 20 other slabs that don't look like this. So even though there is clearly not a scratch on any of the edges....the fact that he can see the white through the plastic is proof of the slab being pried open.
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To Kryptonite: Give the buyer a refund and don't worry about it. When he realized his mistake, he will appreciate the customer service and become a satisfied, longtime customer.
Just take the return and move on.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>You won't convince him.
Just take the return and move on. >>
Your right...I told him to return the coin and he opened a case with Ebay for Item not as described anyway.....
<< <i>Nice looking coin >>
Since you have a 14 day return policy, no need for a logical reason I suppose.
Returns accepted for any reason is just an easy policy. I don't even need to know why. Some just seem a bit silly, though.
merse
<< <i>
<< <i>You won't convince him.
Just take the return and move on. >>
Your right...I told him to return the coin and he opened a case with Ebay for Item not as described anyway..... >>
Cripes. Why open a case if you can return it for a full refund? Maybe he's hoping to stick you with the shipping both ways?
There's nothing wrong with that slab. I've seen the same thing a hundred times.
Sorry about the trouble. And for a $50 coin, no less.
Lance.
<< <i>You won't convince him.
Just take the return and move on. >>
Agree.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
1. I have to deal with this type of BS all the time...those that don't sell on Ebay might think it's an isolated incident or perhaps seem to think that my time and effort are of no importance in business dealings.
2. The return privileged was never in question...but when someone gives a reason like this I try to educate them, after all these are consigned coins and I think my consignor deserve my protection in whatever fashion I can offer since this will now cost my consignor at least an extra 4-weeks of waiting to get paid for his coin.
3. The thread was created in hopes that the buyer would learn something from fellow collectors who do not have a financial stake in the coins sale.
Great advise here.
as an excuse. If that's true, trying to educate him is a waste of time. I'd give it one shot, and if
he persists in arguing, just throw in the towel. FWIW.
I'll be giving no more advice without payment first.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>For those saying take the return and move on...
1. I have to deal with this type of BS all the time...those that don't sell on Ebay might think it's an isolated incident or perhaps seem to think that my time and effort are of no importance in business dealings
....
>>
At least in my mind, your time and effort are exactly the reason to just refund and move on. You will waste a lot of time and aggravation trying to educate him. And it would be incredibly surprising if you could actually educate him and he'll probably end up finding a way to ding you with negative feedback.
I deal with customers and customer service on a daily basis and the sooner you can stop dealing with an annoying, idiotic, etc. customer, the better.
Block him.
Move on.
<< <i>You won't convince him.
Just take the return and move on. >>
+ 1
You sold to a person that has a laundry list of problems, they seem to multiply.
NGC registry V-Nickel proof #6!!!!
working on proof shield nickels # 8 with a bullet!!!!
RIP "BEAR"
I submitted these myself. Here's what PCGS returned.
I cracked this one. This is what it takes to open one.
note that
one of the new posts is cracked (upper left)
there is part of one corner from the other half still attached (lower left)
a crack running through the side (center)
and a distortion on the other half (right)
What it takes to open one means cracking the seams all the way around the thing. I actually cut off the top and part of the sides then crack the sides and bottom with a pry tool. (99.99% gold and no mistakes so far!) Note the damage all the way around the slab.
those distortions are not on every slab I've seen, but they are normal and are on many I've seen and received back from PCGS myself.
Recipient of the coveted "You Suck" award, April 2009 for cherrypicking a 1833 CBHD LM-5, and April 2022 for a 1835 LM-12, and again in Aug 2012 for picking off a 1952 FS-902.
<< <i>To Kryptonite: Give the buyer a refund and don't worry about it. When he realized his mistake, he will appreciate the customer service and become a satisfied, longtime customer. "
Great advise here. >>
Not really. It's buyers like this who make eBay a real pain sometimes. Shane will get penalized just for having the case opened, even though he did nothing wrong in that the slab has no problems AND the buyer would get a refund anyway. If you sell a significant amount on eBay, you'll soon learn that it's almost never worth giving buyers a second chance. The potential downside is far greater than the upside.
Anytime any question is raised, "BLOCK THE BUYER!"
The way that ebay has set things up, they steer the buyer into opening a resolution case. If the buyer doesn't know better, and it sounds like the buyer in this case is new and a bit naïve in this area, then they will likely end up opening up a case.
It's eBay's fault, but the forum jerk reaction is to "BLOCK THE BUYER".
I feel for Shane, as he has done nothing wrong.
I feel for the buyer as they are likely very naïve/ignorant in the ways of slabbed coins, or, in particular, these PCGS slabs. They have probably heard of fakes or been told to beware of coins switched out. Heck, they may have even had heard these "helpful" bits from their local dealer (who wants to rip them and not have them trust ebay or ebay sellers......I know I have run into a local dealer or two that tried that on me a few years back).
Between fakes (slabs and coins), slimy sellers, and the "block the buyer" club, I feel sorry for anyone new and learning. They either "pay tuition" (which, the same crowd is ok with them having to do) or they get blocked if they do something like ask a question, or follow ebay guidelines.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>This also may be a case of some picky arze collector about the bell lines. He doesn't see an upgrade and this is his sorry excuse for a return. >>
Sure, but in that case, wouldn't they generally be a more knowledgeable buyer and, as such, more likely just to cut to the chase and use the stated return policy instead of screwing around?
"Returns: 14 days money back, buyer pays return shipping"
If it were someone taking a gamble and then returning...well, there's been enough forum members that have admitted to doing that in the past as well.......
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>Distorted parts are normal on slabs.
I submitted these myself. Here's what PCGS returned.
I cracked this one. This is what it takes to open one.
note that
one of the new posts is cracked (upper left)
there is part of one corner from the other half still attached (lower left)
a crack running through the side (center)
and a distortion on the other half (right)
What it takes to open one means cracking the seams all the way around the thing. I actually cut off the top and part of the sides then crack the sides and bottom with a pry tool. (99.99% gold and no mistakes so far!) Note the damage all the way around the slab.
those distortions are not on every slab I've seen, but they are normal and are on many I've seen and received back from PCGS myself. >>
Umm why did you crack the PR70 DCAM slab? Not getting a higher grade.
Latin American Collection
<< <i>
<< <i>This also may be a case of some picky arze collector about the bell lines. He doesn't see an upgrade and this is his sorry excuse for a return. >>
Sure, but in that case, wouldn't they generally be a more knowledgeable buyer and, as such, more likely just to cut to the chase and use the stated return policy instead of screwing around?
"Returns: 14 days money back, buyer pays return shipping"
If it were someone taking a gamble and then returning...well, there's been enough forum members that have admitted to doing that in the past as well....... >>
I think ebay's multiple choices they have buyers pick from doesn't leave much room for a simple return..........unless that's changed........I seldom use ebay.
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
<< <i>The way that ebay has set things up, they steer the buyer into opening a resolution case. >>
Agreed, the way the choices are if the buyer picks the one that seems right it may start a case.
Try telling them they can have it checked by PCGS if they think there's an issue and you'll honor a return anytime if there's an issue with the slab or coin being genuine. There is nothing wrong with it, sonic sealed slabs are often white on the seam and it's normal.
just take the return, and refund him,
id probably block him as well to be honest , if he simply just doesn't get it, there will be problems with future purchases as wel
I have had people ask about returns , in which I say fine . no problem, but they still file a not as described, even thought they just simply want to return it. They don't realize it dings me on my % requirements at month end.
<< <i>
<< <i>Distorted parts are normal on slabs.
I submitted these myself. Here's what PCGS returned.
I cracked this one. This is what it takes to open one.
note that
one of the new posts is cracked (upper left)
there is part of one corner from the other half still attached (lower left)
a crack running through the side (center)
and a distortion on the other half (right)
What it takes to open one means cracking the seams all the way around the thing. I actually cut off the top and part of the sides then crack the sides and bottom with a pry tool. (99.99% gold and no mistakes so far!) Note the damage all the way around the slab.
those distortions are not on every slab I've seen, but they are normal and are on many I've seen and received back from PCGS myself. >>
Umm why did you crack the PR70 DCAM slab? Not getting a higher grade. >>
...he didn't crack the 70...he was using the 70 as an example of how the slab was similar to the OP's slab. That being said, he cracked the 69 with hopes of torching the coin in plastic shrapnel to re-submit for a 68
Erik
Edit to add: in the meantime; the 1/400th owner of Collectors Universe is laughing all the way to the bank on this one
<< <i>Exactly,
just take the return, and refund him,
id probably block him as well to be honest , if he simply just doesn't get it, there will be problems with future purchases as wel
I have had people ask about returns , in which I say fine . no problem, but they still file a not as described, even thought they just simply want to return it. They don't realize it dings me on my % requirements at month end. >>
I would be upset, at ebay, but I don't think I would block the person on the 1st mistake with me.
I recently had to do a return as something I bought "problem free", wasn't. High volume business seller so I don't think it was purposeful. I did a "no-no". Because of how ebay sets it up when you want a return, I didn't want to mistakenly ding the seller, and I know enough to pay attention, so I just contacted the seller directly for the return. No problems with that, for me, and I hope the seller appreciated it, but they do such high volume, I doubt they noticed it.
Of course, both my actions above are probably atypical
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
I know the face value is a "nickel", but the coin costs a few million dollars. Forget the holder and the label. This is 2014.
Signed ,
Colonel E.H.R. Green. ( circa 1914 )
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
Literally!!
<< <i>To Kryptonite: Give the buyer a refund and don't worry about it. When he realized his mistake, he will appreciate the customer service and become a satisfied, longtime customer. "
Great advise here. >>
That is a "customer" I would neither want or have back. I would return coin graciously then refuse all future business. Stupidity and/or lying to return a coin are not traits of a sound business relationship.
Tyler
<< <i>
<< <i>To Kryptonite: Give the buyer a refund and don't worry about it. When he realized his mistake, he will appreciate the customer service and become a satisfied, longtime customer. "
Great advise here. >>
Not really. It's buyers like this who make eBay a real pain sometimes. Shane will get penalized just for having the case opened, even though he did nothing wrong in that the slab has no problems AND the buyer would get a refund anyway. If you sell a significant amount on eBay, you'll soon learn that it's almost never worth giving buyers a second chance. The potential downside is far greater than the upside. >>
You are correct Jason and I change my advice. The logic works for a non Ebay seller, but of course logic goes out the window in the case of sales on Ebay.
Any problem buyer whether he intends to be or not is a nightmare. One or two uneducated new users can blow a 20% discount for a year. Sadly innocent questions become suspect. Any delayed package causes lost sleep and returns cause mid level anxiety attacks.
All unfortunate but true.
<< <i>The "block 'em" crowd never ceases to disappoint.
Anytime any question is raised, "BLOCK THE BUYER!"
The way that ebay has set things up, they steer the buyer into opening a resolution case. If the buyer doesn't know better, and it sounds like the buyer in this case is new and a bit naïve in this area, then they will likely end up opening up a case.
It's eBay's fault, but the forum jerk reaction is to "BLOCK THE BUYER".
I feel for Shane, as he has done nothing wrong.
I feel for the buyer as they are likely very naïve/ignorant in the ways of slabbed coins, or, in particular, these PCGS slabs. They have probably heard of fakes or been told to beware of coins switched out. Heck, they may have even had heard these "helpful" bits from their local dealer (who wants to rip them and not have them trust ebay or ebay sellers......I know I have run into a local dealer or two that tried that on me a few years back).
Between fakes (slabs and coins), slimy sellers, and the "block the buyer" club, I feel sorry for anyone new and learning. They either "pay tuition" (which, the same crowd is ok with them having to do) or they get blocked if they do something like ask a question, or follow ebay guidelines. >>
I'm guessing you don't deal with the general public as customers very much. Difficult/problem customers typically remain that way. Unless they are buying high value/margin items it is probably not worth it. Will their next purchase be returned for a scratched slab, or there looked like fuzz on label, etc.? There are plenty of other customers on eBay.
I can understand the buyer being hesitant (assuming he is telling the truth regarding the reason of the return), but if I was in his position I would just do some brief research looking at pictures of legit slabs and realize that this is normal.
Kryptonitecomics is a stand up seller and I have completed many successful transactions with him. Never has a slab been tampered with and the current slab is as expected from PCGS.
Return the coin and accept your refund gracefully.
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In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
In honor of the memory of Cpl. Michael E. Thompson
Although, I am
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>
I'm guessing you don't deal with the general public as customers very much. Difficult/problem customers typically remain that way. Unless they are buying high value/margin items it is probably not worth it. Will their next purchase be returned for a scratched slab, or there looked like fuzz on label, etc.? There are plenty of other customers on eBay.
I can understand the buyer being hesitant (assuming he is telling the truth regarding the reason of the return), but if I was in his position I would just do some brief research looking at pictures of legit slabs and realize that this is normal. >>
I'm guessing you are pretty incorrect with your assumption.....
I do, and have, dealt with "the general public" a lot.
There is some truth in what you say about "difficult/problem" customers, but there is also something about new/naïve customers as well. Maybe I look at it differently because I have made mistakes myself, and learned. I'm not perfect and don't think I am. So, I look and see if there may be more than what is on the surface when I deal with others.
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
A $77 dollar coin and all this? What would you do if it was 500 or a thousand? Hire a hitman??!!
<< <i>A $77 dollar coin and all this? What would you do if it was 500 or a thousand? Hire a hitman??!! >>
Issue isn't so much the price of the coin, but the hit to the Ebay rating because the buyer does not understand the slabbing process.
Really an Ebay problem rather than a customer problem, but for those that sell under the Ebay Sword of Damacles, the difficulty is real.