<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits. >>
Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted.
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits. >>
Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted. >>
I disagree with your premise but if you don't belong you don't get to vote.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted. >>
Thank you for taking my comments completely out of context.
Reputable TPG services (and we all know some are not up to the same standards as others) are a good thing in many cases, providing a level of standard and security previously not available in numismatics - especially to less knowledgeable collectors or investors.
Having said that, they are also responsible for making "rarities" out of something which is not rare. The "first sold" labels for the Kennedy gold is a perfect example.
Obviously as the number of non-modern coins being slabbed dropped, the TPGs needed a new arena to keep their business up -- modern commemoratives. I totally understand why they did it. I just don't think - in MY opinion - it has added much to the hobby.
Greg
Greg Lyon, ANA Board of Governors 2011-2017 -- The views represented here are my own personal opinions and do not represent those of the American Numismatic Association.
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits. >>
Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted. >>
So we should find a board that bows down to the TPG's? Why not add the auction companies also?
PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality!
Modern coin grading is a profit center for these TPG's. They will not stop. The US Mint needs to change they way they distribute. Go back to the 60's man and only allow orders through the mail.
<< <i>PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality! >>
You have no idea how their business model works.
Obviously as the number of non-modern coins being slabbed dropped, the TPGs needed a new arena to keep their business up -- modern commemoratives. I totally understand why they did it. I just don't think - in MY opinion - it has added much to the hobby.
Greg
I wonder if NGC will continue to be the only bidder for the ANA endorsement. PCGS wised up and has passed. NGC should as well.
<< <i>I wonder if we stepped back in time, would the same be said about the commemorative half series in the late 1930's through 1950? >>
Not sure, but to me, it's two different things. The coins are works of art. First Strike is a paper label signifying something that doesn't make a coin more significant or valuable, intrinsically.
Outside of the paper labels (FS), I think they are quite similar. In fact very similar.
Anyone can disagree on "how nice the artwork" is, believe me there are some bombs in the classic commem series. BTW, Wash Carver, Bridgeport, Arkansas, lots of uglies there too.
I was talking about the paper labels only, and not the products. 97 percent of modern "commemoratives" are awful. You're right ... not all the "classics" are very pretty.
Cant disagree with you on the artwork for moderns.
I get sick when they have to interject "PC" themes as well. Just leave it alone. There are enough themes to commemorate that everyone will get their chance.
<< <i>PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality! >>
This isn't the problem. The people who schemed to game the system are the problem.
<< <i>I'm sure I'll be scorned for saying so, but Legend is a part of the "greed" mechanism that is so rightly disparaged in the post. I have said as much before(and it's fallen on deaf ears) about how dealers/collectors will pretty much do whatever it takes to get what they want, this is just an extreme example of that and, unfortunately, out in the public domain like never before. most of the back-stabbing and treachery takes place behind closed doors and never sees the light of day leading many to believe it never takes place at all. here's a headline --- it does!!
dealers can point fingers if they want, but it is one of "them" who is the problem and it is the mechanism of how they do "business" that is at the root of things. >>
What on earth? Is this supposed to derail the thread to be against Legend? Say what you will but I feel they help the hobby. There aren't many that are trying to irradiate coin doctors from this hobby so collectors don't get burned. And all this "greed" mechanism you speak of is called BUSINESS. >>
Good One Ankur J, that is funny. Oh, wait! You were serious, weren't you?
You're saying that Laura is trying to actually irradiate the coin doctors, as in Nuke them? If she literally does that, I'm afraid that some collectors may get burned.
Or did you mean that she is just trying to illuminate them intellectually or spiritually? Well, good luck with that. But perhaps she is the person most qualified to do it.
Maybe she was just trying to irradiate them by bringing them out of the shadows and shinning a light on them and their practices for all to see. No, maybe not. I think that was tried and didn't go so well.
Possibly the word you were searching for was eradicate. She is trying to eradicate the coin doctors. That makes much more sense.
Do you mean that she is literally trying to eliminate them by utterly destroying them or erasing them? Now that sounds kind of scary.
<< <i>PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality! >>
This isn't the problem. The people who schemed to game the system are the problem. >>
If there was no such thing as first strike or first sold, everyone would buy them from the mint at home. And wait for the same blue label to be on every coin. It kind of is the problem! I am not against grading, but just grade! That should be good enough! There is no such thing as first strike, no one knows what was stuck first. This is ridiculous and always was!
<< <i>Modern coin grading is a profit center for these TPG's. They will not stop. The US Mint needs to change they way they distribute. Go back to the 60's man and only allow orders through the mail. >>
If the Mint ever needs to pump up the volume after hitting a lull in sales they just need to step back a few years. Have someone discover an error of some sort. Watch ordering jump way up.
While it could have been mis-classified or not reported
I think signs point to it just being an unfounded rumor.
If the dealer wants to file a police report for a robbery, I'll take the police report number after it's filed. (a robbery with the items recovered later is still a robbery)
Wow, I have been away from the coin scene for a while now. Looks like I might have picked the wrong time to come back! ha ha... I had no idea all this craziness had happened.
"When I die I want to go peacefully in my sleep like grandpa did, not screaming like the rest of the people in his car." --- Jack Handy
Positive BST transactions with members - Tander123, Twincam, UtahCoin, ianrussell
<< <i>New? A majority of those in person sales went to paid line sitters. >>
Yeah, NEW ! Just what I said. Find something really disgusting from Jersey. At least someone is working security , quietly going after the really bad guys. Let's talk gangs
Yeah, this thread was ........well, OK. Then her market report came out and she mellowed out a bit. I guess considering she is on the ANA board too. Believe me the ANA is at fault here with this nonsense too. FS, etc. lines and selling badges etc...........I think her Hot topic was better focused on the problem.
When the air comes out of this bubble, depending on how many people are hurt and how badly, someone might ask what designations like "first sold", "first strike" and "early release" have to do with a coins grade. That someone might be the FTC. Please note that I am not advocating this.
Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
Maybe the FTC will go after the food companies; "low fat", "low sugar", "reduced fat", "new and improved", etc, or the car companies; "limited", "sport", "luxury", etc, or the used car companies; "low mileage", "barely used", "like new", etc, or the retail companies; "sale", "reduced", or god forbid the investment companies; "strong buy", "buy", etc
Maybe. I would note that the FTC is acquainted with PCGS, though. Of course, that is old news, which if you don't know about can easily be retrieved with Google. I do believe that there is a large short interest in the stock, and a common tactic of professional shorts is to stir up regulators. From my perspective, my experience with TPG's has been entirely positive, I'm just making an observation. This has developed into a volatile situation, and who knows what can happen from here?
Collector since adolescent days in the early 1960's. Mostly inactive now, but I enjoy coin periodicals and books and coin shows as health permits.
<< <i>PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality! >>
Thanks for your opinion. Even if a vast majority don't necessarily agree with it (seen by the fact it is collected and a number on here collect them as well). Heck....any high grade cent/nickel/dime/half dollar/dollar, to include proofs, in the last number of decades, would qualify for your statement. Glad you think they shouldn't be slabbed
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits. >>
Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted. >>
But...but....but....he's posted here for four years. Doesn't that automatically mean he deserves everyone's support for re-election, or election as Vice President or President?
The Peter Principle proves itself once again, IMHO.
<< <i>It's interesting to see all the negative press directed at the ANA, Dealers involved, TPG's - and in my opinion all warranted,
but the SILENCE from these groups is what surprises me the most.
Not looking good from my perspective, no statements released, either way.......SPEAKS A THOUSAND WORDS. >>
The least culprit in the ANA Show and Mint fiasco was NGC and PCGS... the Mint products were provided to people so coins could be graded .. no coins , no labels . . As for the ANA and MInt ...they hope their show mess drifts off quietly But you are correct in that ANA govs had a meeting last Sat, but silence from them was rather loud from the lack of comment about ANA Show There is always 2015
Going forward I don't think a lottery or wristbands or whatever is going to solve much as you still have the large throng of people standing on line waiting to get their golden ticket. The loads of people everywhere is a big part of the problem. Something online like a ticket voucher that is mailed and doesn't have to be handed out might work but I doubt stodgy organizations like ANA or the US Mint would ever be able to figure that out.
Comments
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
<< <i>
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits. >>
Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted.
<< <i>
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits. >>
Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted. >>
I disagree with your premise but if you don't belong you don't get to vote.
Worry is the interest you pay on a debt you may not owe.
"Paper money eventually returns to its intrinsic value---zero."----Voltaire
"Everything you say should be true, but not everything true should be said."----Voltaire
Actually, it might be worth joining ...
<< <i>Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted. >>
Thank you for taking my comments completely out of context.
Reputable TPG services (and we all know some are not up to the same standards as others) are a good thing in many cases, providing a level of standard and security previously not available in numismatics - especially to less knowledgeable collectors or investors.
Having said that, they are also responsible for making "rarities" out of something which is not rare. The "first sold" labels for the Kennedy gold is a perfect example.
Obviously as the number of non-modern coins being slabbed dropped, the TPGs needed a new arena to keep their business up -- modern commemoratives. I totally understand why they did it. I just don't think - in MY opinion - it has added much to the hobby.
Greg
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits. >>
Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted. >>
So we should find a board that bows down to the TPG's? Why not add the auction companies also?
<< <i>I just don't think - in MY opinion - it has added much to the hobby. >>
I'll agree with that. It has added NOTHING to the hobby, except for perceived rarity. First struck? First sold? WHO CARES????
<< <i>It has added NOTHING to the hobby, except for perceived rarity. >>
I wonder if we stepped back in time, would the same be said about the commemorative half series in the late 1930's through 1950?
<< <i>PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality! >>
You have no idea how their business model works.
Obviously as the number of non-modern coins being slabbed dropped, the TPGs needed a new arena to keep their business up -- modern commemoratives. I totally understand why they did it. I just don't think - in MY opinion - it has added much to the hobby.
Greg
I wonder if NGC will continue to be the only bidder for the ANA endorsement. PCGS wised up and has passed. NGC should as well.
<< <i>I wonder if we stepped back in time, would the same be said about the commemorative half series in the late 1930's through 1950? >>
Not sure, but to me, it's two different things. The coins are works of art. First Strike is a paper label signifying something that doesn't make a coin more significant or valuable, intrinsically.
<< <i>it's two different things. >>
Outside of the paper labels (FS), I think they are quite similar. In fact very similar.
Anyone can disagree on "how nice the artwork" is, believe me there are some bombs in the classic commem series. BTW, Wash Carver, Bridgeport, Arkansas, lots of uglies there too.
I get sick when they have to interject "PC" themes as well. Just leave it alone. There are enough themes to commemorate that everyone will get their chance.
<< <i>PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality! >>
This isn't the problem. The people who schemed to game the system are the problem.
<< <i>This isn't the problem. The people who schemed to game the system are the problem >>
Agree 100%
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm sure I'll be scorned for saying so, but Legend is a part of the "greed" mechanism that is so rightly disparaged in the post. I have said as much before(and it's fallen on deaf ears) about how dealers/collectors will pretty much do whatever it takes to get what they want, this is just an extreme example of that and, unfortunately, out in the public domain like never before. most of the back-stabbing and treachery takes place behind closed doors and never sees the light of day leading many to believe it never takes place at all. here's a headline --- it does!!
dealers can point fingers if they want, but it is one of "them" who is the problem and it is the mechanism of how they do "business" that is at the root of things. >>
What on earth? Is this supposed to derail the thread to be against Legend? Say what you will but I feel they help the hobby.
There aren't many that are trying to irradiate coin doctors from this hobby so collectors don't get burned. And all this "greed" mechanism you speak of is called BUSINESS. >>
Good One Ankur J, that is funny. Oh, wait! You were serious, weren't you?
You're saying that Laura is trying to actually irradiate the coin doctors, as in Nuke them? If she literally does that, I'm afraid that some collectors may get burned.
Or did you mean that she is just trying to illuminate them intellectually or spiritually? Well, good luck with that. But perhaps she is the person most qualified to do it.
Maybe she was just trying to irradiate them by bringing them out of the shadows and shinning a light on them and their practices for all to see. No, maybe not. I think that was tried and didn't go so well.
Possibly the word you were searching for was eradicate. She is trying to eradicate the coin doctors. That makes much more sense.
Do you mean that she is literally trying to eliminate them by utterly destroying them or erasing them? Now that sounds kind of scary.
But then... she is from New Jersey, no?
<< <i>
<< <i>PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality! >>
This isn't the problem. The people who schemed to game the system are the problem. >>
If there was no such thing as first strike or first sold, everyone would buy them from the mint at home. And wait for the same blue label to be on every coin. It kind of is the problem! I am not against grading, but just grade! That should be good enough! There is no such thing as first strike, no one knows what was stuck first. This is ridiculous and always was!
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
0 robberies on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
there were 3 thefts at the convention center reported for those 3 days.
There were 0 thefts in the "streets" immediately adjacent to the convention center.
<< <i>Modern coin grading is a profit center for these TPG's. They will not stop. The US Mint needs to change they way they distribute. Go back to the 60's man and only allow orders through the mail. >>
If the Mint ever needs to pump up the volume after hitting a lull in sales they just need to step back a few years.
Have someone discover an error of some sort. Watch ordering jump way up.
<< <i>The Rosemont, IL police report
0 robberies on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
there were 3 thefts at the convention center reported for those 3 days.
There were 0 thefts in the "streets" immediately adjacent to the convention center. >>
Thanks for that. Apparently, the worlds lamest "gangs" were wandering around the bourse. What's the normal crime reports? 2-3 issues?
<< <i>
<< <i>The Rosemont, IL police report
0 robberies on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
there were 3 thefts at the convention center reported for those 3 days.
There were 0 thefts in the "streets" immediately adjacent to the convention center. >>
Thanks for that. Apparently, the worlds lamest "gangs" were wandering around the bourse. What's the normal crime reports? 2-3 issues? >>
The worlds lamest "gangs". LOL The get a long gangs
mugging in the bathroom = robbery
While it could have been mis-classified or not reported
I think signs point to it just being an unfounded rumor.
If the dealer wants to file a police report for a robbery, I'll take the police report number after it's filed. (a robbery with the items recovered later is still a robbery)
<< <i>Where there any assaults? >>
I narrowed my request to
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday
Robberies and Thefts
<< <i> think signs point to it just being an unfounded rumor. >>
Or, maybe the suspect ran into a guy from Jersey who left him laying there with no take.
--- Jack Handy
Positive BST transactions with members - Tander123, Twincam, UtahCoin, ianrussell
There is a reason most cities require a permit for something like this. I could only hope that the cities involved follow up with zeal.
Common sense would have dictated porta potties be furnished but that would have torpedoed the false spontenaity drama.
<< <i>New? A majority of those in person sales went to paid line sitters. >>
Yeah, NEW ! Just what I said. Find something really disgusting from Jersey.
At least someone is working security , quietly going after the really bad guys. Let's talk gangs
Let's speak to marauding gangs.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I'm still waiting for my handy. :the wave; >>
Spell check …. haha
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>I'm still waiting for my hundy.
You didn't include a mug shot
<< <i>PCGS should put their foot down and say NO MORE to grading modern stuff that was never in circulation. We will have none of this insanity anymore, No more first strike, no more special lables none of it. PCGS you got our backs! Stop this insanity! Ok, now back to reality! >>
Thanks for your opinion. Even if a vast majority don't necessarily agree with it (seen by the fact it is collected and a number on here collect them as well).
Heck....any high grade cent/nickel/dime/half dollar/dollar, to include proofs, in the last number of decades, would qualify for your statement. Glad you think they shouldn't be slabbed
I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment
<< <i>
<< <i>
<< <i>Do all ANA members get to vote on board members? If so, I'm joining. >>
Yes---members elect the governors, president, and vice president. The excellent magazine alone (The Numismatist) is worth the cost of membership plus they have a lending library and other benefits. >>
Based on the inflammatory posts from Greg Lyons and his HATE for the TPG's (even though NGC pays to be endorsed by the ANA), he should be ousted. >>
But...but....but....he's posted here for four years. Doesn't that automatically mean he deserves everyone's support for re-election, or election as Vice President or President?
The Peter Principle proves itself once again, IMHO.
but the SILENCE from these groups is what surprises me the most.
Not looking good from my perspective, no statements released, either way.......SPEAKS A THOUSAND WORDS.
<< <i>It's interesting to see all the negative press directed at the ANA, Dealers involved, TPG's - and in my opinion all warranted,
but the SILENCE from these groups is what surprises me the most.
Not looking good from my perspective, no statements released, either way.......SPEAKS A THOUSAND WORDS. >>
The least culprit in the ANA Show and Mint fiasco was NGC and PCGS... the Mint products were provided to people so coins could be graded .. no coins , no labels . .
As for the ANA and MInt ...they hope their show mess drifts off quietly
But you are correct in that ANA govs had a meeting last Sat, but silence from them was rather loud from the lack of comment about ANA Show
There is always 2015
<< <i>It's interesting to see all the negative press directed at the ANA, Dealers involved, TPG's - and in my opinion all warranted,
but the SILENCE from these groups is what surprises me the most.
Not looking good from my perspective, no statements released, either way.......SPEAKS A THOUSAND WORDS. >>
When you have nothing to say in your defense, SAY NOTHING.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
<< <i>Her marketing ploy cost $10M. Litpon's only cost $100K. Maybe she got out thought.
To classify and denigrate all modern collectors as junk is shameless. To each their own. >>
You mean Kevin Lipton winner of the 2012 PNG Lifetime Achievement Award. Classic!
http://www.coinweek.com/people-in-the-news/kevin-lipton-png-lifetime-achievement-award-recipient-2012-video/
<< <i>
<< <i>Her marketing ploy cost $10M. Litpon's only cost $100K. Maybe she got out thought.
To classify and denigrate all modern collectors as junk is shameless. To each their own. >>
You mean Kevin Lipton winner of the 2012 PNG Lifetime Achievement Award. Classic!
http://www.coinweek.com/people-in-the-news/kevin-lipton-png-lifetime-achievement-award-recipient-2012-video/ >>
How the mighty have fallen, eh?