Rumor Regarding the Kennedy Gold Commem at the Chicago ANA - Busing in Senior Citizens to Get Vouche
numisma
Posts: 3,877 ✭✭✭✭
Has anyone else heard this rumor? Rumor has it that at least one dealer is bringing in two busloads of senior citizens to stand in line for hours to get a voucher for the two gold Kennedy commemorative coins. I also heard that a few other dealers were taking similar measures.
This begs the question of what chaos will ensue when 1,000 or more people are fighting to get one of the 250 vouchers on the first day. Will it be similar to one of those crazy Black Friday mobs where people get injured or even killed (it has happened)?
Why doesn't the Mint have a lottery at the show to evenly and fairly distribute the vouchers? You put in your name and phone number, and that info is entered into a computer. Duplicates will be deleted to weed out the scammers. Then a few hours later 250 people are randomly selected and a list is posted in several places naming the winners. They will also be contacted via telephone. Just a thought.
Do you have any ideas on how to make the sale of 500 Kennedy gold commems per day (for 5 days) fair for everyone, including dealers and collectors?
Edited to fix the last line from: "sale of 250 Kennedy gold commems"
This begs the question of what chaos will ensue when 1,000 or more people are fighting to get one of the 250 vouchers on the first day. Will it be similar to one of those crazy Black Friday mobs where people get injured or even killed (it has happened)?
Why doesn't the Mint have a lottery at the show to evenly and fairly distribute the vouchers? You put in your name and phone number, and that info is entered into a computer. Duplicates will be deleted to weed out the scammers. Then a few hours later 250 people are randomly selected and a list is posted in several places naming the winners. They will also be contacted via telephone. Just a thought.
Do you have any ideas on how to make the sale of 500 Kennedy gold commems per day (for 5 days) fair for everyone, including dealers and collectors?
Edited to fix the last line from: "sale of 250 Kennedy gold commems"
0
Comments
at 2 per, that's a lot of work for a coin that will be shipped from the mint shortly after.
``https://ebay.us/m/KxolR5
The Mysterious Egyptian Magic Coin
Coins in Movies
Coins on Television
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
<< <i>Has anyone else heard this rumor? Rumor has it that at least one dealer is bringing in two busloads of senior citizens to stand in line for hours to get a voucher for the two gold Kennedy commemorative coins. I also heard that a few other dealers were taking similar measures.
This begs the question of what chaos will ensue when 1,000 or more people are fighting to get one of the 250 vouchers on the first day. Will it be similar to one of those crazy Black Friday mobs where people get injured or even killed (it has happened)?
Why doesn't the Mint have a lottery at the show to evenly and fairly distribute the vouchers? You put in your name and phone number, and that info is entered into a computer. Duplicates will be deleted to weed out the scammers. Then a few hours later 250 people are randomly selected and a list is posted in several places naming the winners. They will also be contacted via telephone. Just a thought.
Do you have any ideas on how to make the sale of 250 Kennedy gold commems fair for everyone, including dealers and collectors? >>
It doesn't matter how many folks the dealers "bus" in, "fly" in or just "Do" in.
Only 2,500 of these coins will be sold over 5 days with a maximum of 500 coins per day. Tickets will be given out in a line which will be formed at some unknown location within the show. Only folks with "tickets" will be able to purchase one (or two) of the Kennedy Gold Coins. What this means is that at low end of the scale, only 250 people will get tickets or maybe 1,000 people will get tickets, but, only 500 coins will be sold.
The US Mint has said that 40,000 of the coins will be available for sale/shipping on August 5th. Of that 40,000 , only 2,500 will sell at the ANA Show.
If I lived in Denver, I'd visit the Coin Shop at the Denver Mint with my buyers in tow and I expect that this is what will happen since the coins will be available at the US Mint Stores as well as the ANA Show as well as online.
No doubt, it'll be a free for all but "bussing" folks into a Show where the total sales are limited and getting into the ticket line will require paying attention and the ability to move quickly to the assigned location, might not be a really smart business proposition.
Oh why did I say that? I hope its true because then more money will be lost than gained.
The name is LEE!
<< <i>Senior citizens are an option but so are a bus load of grade school kids and teens. At least they can stand for more than 10 minutes without getting winded. >>
Ha ha ha!
What about getting bored and distracted??
The name is LEE!
I called the sales and marketing department at the U.S. Mint and talked with a friendly, knowledgeable representative of that office. He assured me that they are aware of all of the rumors about people being bused in by the hundreds. He said several dealers were doing this. However, he said that they are dedicated to making this event as fair as possible for everyone, and they are taking steps to avoid chaos, to the best of their ability.
As for the details, he said they are not releasing the details until right before the show. That is one way to make this fair for everyone. I wonder if their strategy will make it a waste of time to pay people to stand in line.
“In matters of style, swim with the current; in matters of principle, stand like a rock." - Thomas Jefferson
My digital cameo album 1950-64 Cameos - take a look!
An announcement will be made where to line up shortly before sales begin on Tuesday. People in line will be given a ticket allowing them to buy two coins that day. There will be more cashiers than there were last year, so this should go more quickly. Tuesday's sales will determine how limits are handled the rest of the week.
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
Why is the rush to get one? If demand will be high they will up the mintage. No rush here.
since I can't attend the Show and neither can 99%+ of collectors who might want one, I think the notion that it can somehow be "fair" is a fair-y tale. they should probably just eliminate the promotion. to that end there really isn't much of a fair way with modern technology to get anything anymore. gone are the days of old, if you wanted to see Black Sabbath you actually had to go wait in line to buy a ticket with cash. now coins and concerts go the same rout --- as long as you have money you just wait for the promoters to buy everything up and then you pay the premium.
end of rant.
<< <i>Senior Citizens are not going to stand in line for hours.
As soon as they get their ticket they can go sit at McDonalds until the Bus leaves. Or they can bring their little electric scooter.
<< <i>"The issue will be struck to demand, he said."
Why is the rush to get one? If demand will be high they will up the mintage. No rush here. >>
The rush is that any of the 2500 coins sold at the ANA show qualify for a special PCGS (and NGC) label, which will be in strong demand for the few weeks after the convention. Those spending $1,300 for a gold Kennedy commemorative can then have it certified at the show for $100 (I am guessing) and then sell a PR70 First Strike ANA for $3000 to $4000. That is what is causing all of this drama.
<< <i>"The issue will be struck to demand, he said."
Why is the rush to get one? If demand will be high they will up the mintage. No rush here. >>
It has nothing to do with the coin and everything to do with the special labels to be offered by the TPGs. Exonumia is alive an thriving!
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
So what happens after the first day when the secret location is known? Do they keep changing it?
Really - just have a lottery every day for tickets, and post the winning stubs on a board near the Mint's booth and avoid the crowd frenzy.
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i>I called the sales and marketing department at the U.S. Mint and talked with a friendly, knowledgeable representative of that office. He assured me that they are aware of all of the rumors about people being bused in by the hundreds. He said several dealers were doing this. However, he said that they are dedicated to making this event as fair as possible for everyone, and they are taking steps to avoid chaos, to the best of their ability.
As for the details, he said they are not releasing the details until right before the show. That is one way to make this fair for everyone. I wonder if their strategy will make it a waste of time to pay people to stand in line. >>
Another funny one!
Exactly what "details" are left other than the location of the "ticket line"?
The name is LEE!
comin' into the show to line up, I'm worried
that they'll find my table, and then all
get in line behind me!
<< <i>
<< <i>Senior citizens are an option but so are a bus load of grade school kids and teens. At least they can stand for more than 10 minutes without getting winded. >>
Ha ha ha!
What about getting bored and distracted??
Thank God for smartphones, tablets and text messaging. Actually I prefer using the younger folks to do the job. At least they could outrun and outmaneuver the living fossils.
Authorized dealer for PCGS, PCGS Currency, NGC, NCS, PMG, CAC. Member of the PNG, ANA. Member dealer of CoinPlex and CCE/FACTS as "CH5"
Yes, that is correct. They will change it "as needed" to minimize chaos.
Really - just have a lottery every day for tickets, and post the winning stubs on a board near the Mint's booth and avoid the crowd frenzy.
I asked them about doing a lottery and he quickly stated that, "the United States government cannot hold a lottery." In fact, he cut me off before I could finish the question, so I was not the first to suggest this.
Exactly what "details" are left other than the location of the "ticket line"?
There are other details. For example, there may not be vouchers but rather another item (this was mentioned). Also, if there are vouchers, will they be tied to a name/driver's card to prevent the sales of vouchers? They are just being secretive.
<< <i>Do you have any ideas on how to make the sale of 250 Kennedy gold commems fair for everyone, including dealers and collectors?]/b]
since I can't attend the Show and neither can 99%+ of collectors who might want one, I think the notion that it can somehow be "fair" is a fair-y tale. they should probably just eliminate the promotion. to that end there really isn't much of a fair way with modern technology to get anything anymore. gone are the days of old, if you wanted to see Black Sabbath you actually had to go wait in line to buy a ticket with cash. now coins and concerts go the same rout --- as long as you have money you just wait for the promoters to buy everything up and then you pay the premium.
end of rant. >>
I agree with all of the above, but would substitute Grateful Dead for Black Sabbath (
We are a nation of flippers, and I do my best to avoid buying stuff which requires me to pay an upcharge to compensate middlemen that add no value other than to make the item or service more expensive. If it were food or water, I would suck it up and pay. Concert tickets? US Mint products? American Girl dolls? No f'ing way!
<< <i>
<< <i>"The issue will be struck to demand, he said."
Why is the rush to get one? If demand will be high they will up the mintage. No rush here. >>
The rush is that any of the 2500 coins sold at the ANA show qualify for a special PCGS (and NGC) label, which will be in strong demand for the few weeks after the convention. Those spending $1,300 for a gold Kennedy commemorative can then have it certified at the show for $100 (I am guessing) and then sell a PR70 First Strike ANA for $3000 to $4000. That is what is causing all of this drama. >>
Who are these schmucks that pay an extra $2000-3000 for the special label? I have never seen one in the wild.
<< <i>Really - just have a lottery every day for tickets, and post the winning stubs on a board near the Mint's booth and avoid the crowd frenzy.
I asked them about doing a lottery and he quickly stated that, "the United States government cannot hold a lottery." In fact, he cut me off before I could finish the question, so I was not the first to suggest this. >>
BS
The BEP holds/help lotteries in the past for special release notes.
<< <i>Exactly what "details" are left other than the location of the "ticket line"?
There are other details. For example, there may not be vouchers but rather another item (this was mentioned). Also, if there are vouchers, will they be tied to a name/driver's card to prevent the sales of vouchers? They are just being secretive. >>
Who said anything about "vouchers"?
The name is LEE!
<< <i>?
Really - just have a lottery every day for tickets, and post the winning stubs on a board near the Mint's booth and avoid the crowd frenzy.
I asked them about doing a lottery and he quickly stated that, "the United States government cannot hold a lottery." In fact, he cut me off before I could finish the question, so I was not the first to suggest this.
. >>
Wonder if anyone remembers the Draft Lottery during the Vietnam War????
==Looking for pre WW2 Commems in PCGS Rattler holders, 1851-O Three Cent Silvers in all grades
Successful, problem free and pleasant transactions with: illini420, coinguy1, weather11am,wayneherndon,wondercoin,Topdollarpaid,Julian, bishdigg,seateddime, peicesofme,ajia,CoinRaritiesOnline,savoyspecial,Boom, TorinoCobra71, ModernCoinMart, WTCG, slinc, Patches, Gerard, pocketpiececommems, BigJohnD, RickMilauskas, mirabella, Smittys, LeeG, TomB, DeusExMachina, tydye
<< <i>As for the details, he said they are not releasing the details until right before the show. >>
They should just do the lottery!!!!!
Show up before 11AM, get a number. Have a board or electronic number board with the number called......just like you're at the deli counter. Except random called number.
Solve the "buying for others issue" and the possible large amounts of cash being taken for payment - ONLY accept a credit card or debit card in the persons name with other photo ID to corroborate for payment.
One transaction per card per day.
These two steps will cut out most of the funny business.
<< <i>Who are these schmucks that pay an extra $2000-3000 for the special label? I have never seen one in the wild. >>
IDK but there were a lot of them buying 2013 RP Buffs with ANA show labels for $4500.
<< <i>
<< <i>Senior citizens are an option but so are a bus load of grade school kids and teens. At least they can stand for more than 10 minutes without getting winded. >>
Ha ha ha!
What about getting bored and distracted??
few old seniors.... but a lot of others will be transported to the show just for the buying the kennedy gold at the show . imagine a getting a kennedy ticket to buy 2 coins ... for what will amount to $3,000 profit for a 1 day's work.. just like hitting the lotto
The Mint and ANA risk some sort of a possible human catastrophe happening .. especially after people hearing the money made from the HOFs at the Baltimore show .... Good Luck
Some of the old seniors are the tough guys who survived for many decades . don't short change them
<< <i>Do you have any ideas on how to make the sale of 250 Kennedy gold commems fair for everyone, including dealers and collectors?]/b]
since I can't attend the Show and neither can 99%+ of collectors who might want one, I think the notion that it can somehow be "fair" is a fair-y tale. they should probably just eliminate the promotion. to that end there really isn't much of a fair way with modern technology to get anything anymore. gone are the days of old, if you wanted to see Black Sabbath you actually had to go wait in line to buy a ticket with cash. now coins and concerts go the same rout --- as long as you have money you just wait for the promoters to buy everything up and then you pay the premium.
end of rant. >>
ANA show sales just a payoff / incentive to dealers to push Mint products.. No else mentioned, but I heard dealers with tables at the show, will be offered 1-2 Gold Kennedy coins .. no waiting
No else mentioned, but I heard dealers with tables at the show, will be offered 1-2 Gold Kennedy coins .. no waiting
500 Tables, each with an option to purchase 1 to 2 gold Kennedy commemorative coins? That's up to 1,000 coins out of a limit of 2,500 pieces for the ANA convention, leaving 1,500 coins for collectors and the bus loads of shills.
The trouble with the Kennedy gold coin is that the "minted on demand" policy means that there are not limits as to the number coins that might be sold. I suppose the "quick hitter" people and the "be the first on your block to own one of these" could support the market, but don't stay on the merry-go-round until it stops, but if you do the brass ring will be made of lead that will drag down your finances.
Leo
The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!
My Jefferson Nickel Collection
I will be there and i'll take pics......if there are 100's of canes and walkers, or smelly homeless folks, then i'll be proven wrong.
is the irony intentional?
Liberty: Parent of Science & Industry
<< <i>No else mentioned, but I heard dealers with tables at the show, will be offered 1-2 Gold Kennedy coins .. no waiting
500 Tables, each with an option to purchase 1 to 2 gold Kennedy commemorative coins? That's up to 1,000 coins out of a limit of 2,500 pieces for the ANA convention, leaving 1,500 coins for collectors and the bus loads of shills. >>
I doubt they would do that.
<< <i>
<< <i>No else mentioned, but I heard dealers with tables at the show, will be offered 1-2 Gold Kennedy coins .. no waiting
500 Tables, each with an option to purchase 1 to 2 gold Kennedy commemorative coins? That's up to 1,000 coins out of a limit of 2,500 pieces for the ANA convention, leaving 1,500 coins for collectors and the bus loads of shills. >>
I doubt they would do that. >>
I doubt that they would to that also.
The mint must already know that collectors were not happy with the distribution of the HOF coins. I know I gave them an earful, and I know I was not the only one.
These are all just rumors at this point. One new rumor is that a dealer hired a high school wrestling team to stand in line. Ugh.
<< <i>These are all just rumors at this point. One new rumor is that a dealer hired a high school wrestling team to stand in line. Ugh. >>
the only fact right now looks like the Mint is ready to mess up on Aug 5th
<< <i>One new rumor is that a dealer hired a high school wrestling team to stand in line >>
The BS is getting more thick every time I check back on this thread......
At this point we are drowning in BS.
Now im betting there are three people on the line come Aug 5.