not the way it works. i know this the hard way on the seller end. feedback can be removed unilaterally if and only if ebay rep deems it to have violated policy. very strange. whatever. don't care anymore.
Phil ... let us know when you receive your refund. Good Luck.
STAY HEALTHY!
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
<< <i>I have never returned anything on EBAY. Under what grounds can the OP return the cards?
He thought he hit a home run and was getting the better end of the stick until many on the boards convinced him otherwise.
How does something like this work? Do you simply say you don't like the item? >>
The seller has a clearly stipulated 14-day return policy listed in the auction, which essentially covers any reason.
Even if there weren't a return option, though, cards that are altered or trimmed are covered by ebay buyer protection. I don't know if this is still the case, but at one point, only PSA, SGC and BGS graded cards were even permitted to be sold on ebay.
On a side note, his denigration of PSA regarding them grading altered or trimmed cards to bolster these sad examples is rather telling, imo.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I have never returned anything on EBAY. Under what grounds can the OP return the cards?
He thought he hit a home run and was getting the better end of the stick until many on the boards convinced him otherwise.
How does something like this work? Do you simply say you don't like the item? >>
The seller has a clearly stipulated 14-day return policy listed in the auction, which essentially covers any reason.
Even if there weren't a return option, though, cards that are altered or trimmed are covered by ebay buyer protection. I don't know if this is still the case, but at one point, only PSA, SGC and BGS graded cards were even permitted to be sold on ebay.
On a side note, his denigration of PSA regarding them grading altered or trimmed cards to bolster these sad examples is rather telling, imo. >>
Here is PWCC return policy. I see it the same way. The cards may be trimmed but there is no proof. The buyer has buyers remorse and to me that is not a good enough reason. Had he never started this thread he would have thought he was in the money. Instead he found out he wasn't. Sometimes you buy things and regret it but it is not the sellers fault. The cards were scanned and graded with a low end company and that was known from the start. I could see the seller fighting this one and he may lose but he has a fair argument.
Our 14-day return policy is not a 'no questions asked' return policy. Returns are only accepted if an item is misrepresented in the auction title/description/images, email, or phone communication. Buyer's remorse is not a valid reason for return. We strive to be reasonable in the event of a disagreement and ask that buyers afford us the same level of fairness. Misrepresentation of an auction item is exceedingly rare. Regarding professionally graded cards: we at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders. Professional grading is subjective and different 3rd party graders will often disagree over the grading on a single card. Such a disagreement is NOT a justifiable reason for a return with PWCC. As a broker of graded sportscards, our responsibility is the accurate description and delivery of the item advertised, but is not to guarantee how a graded card will be assessed by another grading company. Any issue a buyer has with a card's 3rd party grade should be addressed with the company that graded the card, not PWCC. Returned items must be received back in the condition they were received. Original shipping will be refunded along with the full purchase price upon receiving back a returned item.
A seller can try and state whatever conditions they want, but those who have been on ebay long enough know that a buyer will get a refund in any case, regardless of circumastance if a return privilege is offered, and in many cases even when it is not. You can try and "fight the return" any way you want, but as as a seller you will lose. That's just the way it is on ebay, and it has been that way for quite some time. Ask miniduff about the guy who returned his factory sealed set because after opening it, the cards weren't as mint as expected.
I don't agree with returns for any reason, but for cards graded by this company which the seller is guaranteeing as authentic and unaltered? And in an auction where the seller states he will accept a return? Like I said, at one time ebay didn't even allow such cards to be sold as only the "big three" were recognized TPGs, but I certainly don't think the buyer should have to be stuck with an item that is very likely (and almost certainly) NOT as described. Maybe you do, but most people with a sense of fairness would not.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>A seller can try and state whatever conditions they want, but those who have been on ebay long enough know that a buyer will get a refund in any case, regardless of circumastance if a return privilege is offered, and in many cases even when it is not. You can try and "fight the return" any way you want, but as as a seller you will lose. That's just the way it is on ebay, and it has been that way for quite some time. Ask miniduff about the guy who returned his factory sealed set because after opening it, the cards weren't as mint as expected.
I don't agree with returns for any reason, but for cards graded by this company which the seller is guaranteeing as authentic and unaltered? And in an auction where the seller states he will accept a return? Like I said, at one time ebay didn't even allow such cards to be sold as only the "big three" were recognized TPGs, but I certainly don't think the buyer should have to be stuck with an item that is very likely (and almost certainly) NOT as described. Maybe you do, but most people with a sense of fairness would not. >>
No one held a gun to his head and said you must buy these cards. For a time he thought he was in a profit. Personally I think that if you feel that a deal is possible and pull the trigger you own it. There have been examples on this board of high dollar cards coming out of BCCG slabs when many have bashed them to death so there are examples of huge wins when buying lower quality slabs.
The person who pulled the trigger is not a novice card buyer and has experience with the major grading companies. If this was a novice collector I might be more sympathetic.
I made one of the most bone headed moves ever witnessed on these boards when I bought the hit by pitch kings card and paid for it and owned up to it. I was hoping for a quick profit and instead it turned into a 90% loss. That is the risk you take.
The card may be garbage but he tried to convince you all it was good and to me that means you must keep it.
I would imagine he will be fine and especially if he paid with a credit card but I see it how Brent does. I wonder what kind of return issues Brent has with that policy clearly in every auction description.
I do understand your point, and to an extent I do agree with you, but in this case the seller (wrongly, imo) essentially guarantees the cards are authentic and unaltered when they are most likely not and he also offers a return privilege. If he doesn't want to offer that option, he ought to list the cards and simply state no returns. Don't offer a policy you aren't going to honor.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I do understand your point, and to an extent I do agree with you, but in this case the seller (wrongly, imo) essentially guarantees the cards are authentic and unaltered when they are most likely not and he also offers a return privilege. If he doesn't want to offer that option, he ought to list the cards and simply state no returns. Don't offer a policy you aren't going to honor. >>
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you could send these in on a cross over and ask for an AUTH grade.
If they deem they are trimmed you would have evidence and that would satisfy the sellers return policy and clearly make you a winner in an EBAY or PayPal dispute.
Personally I think dealing in cards in these slabs is shady but there is a market for it as people are still willing to buy with hopes of hitting the lottery.
<< <i>I do understand your point, and to an extent I do agree with you, but in this case the seller (wrongly, imo) essentially guarantees the cards are authentic and unaltered when they are most likely not and he also offers a return privilege. If he doesn't want to offer that option, he ought to list the cards and simply state no returns. Don't offer a policy you aren't going to honor. >>
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you could send these in on a cross over and ask for an AUTH grade.
If they deem they are trimmed you would have evidence and that would satisfy the sellers return policy and clearly make you a winner in an EBAY or PayPal dispute.
Personally I think dealing in cards in these slabs is shady but there is a market for it as people are still willing to buy with hopes of hitting the lottery. >>
That may work, depending on the service level and turnaround time (ebay disputes must be filled within 45 calendar days), but in this case, I doubt the OP was hoping for an Authentic grade. Lesson learned here is that if a Ryan RC is in an XYZ holder, there is almost certainly a valid reason for that. As a wise man once said, "All that glitters is not gold."
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
I agree with Dpeck in principle. As long as a card is not misrepresented, buyer's remorse isn't a legit reason to return.
While that principle seems like the best policy to me, Grote is right that it is no defense in the court of eBay. I don't really think Dpeck is disagreeing that returns do happen all the time even when there isn't a good reason. Just because you shouldn't, doesn't mean you can't. Credit card chargebacks are another even more aggressive option. I've said it before, but the chances that a buyer who does not want to keep an item and pursues all options for a refund will be stuck with it is almost none.
In this case, the question is: did the seller misrepresent by saying unaltered? If so, by what standards is that judged?
I am not in any way defending selling cards in these slabs. I would be just fine if EBAY didn't allow any of these to be sold online in an effort to protect consumers. That being said they are available and if a buyer wants to participate in the upside they should also have to participate in the downside.
The OP went back and forth with some experienced hobby participants and was clearly trying to make money on the buy and thought he had.
To me this points to buyers remorse as the reason for a return and I am not in favor of these.
Dpeck, if the seller represented the cards as "high grade" Ryan rookies and, once in hand, a buyer determined that they were actually "low grade" by their standards, would that be a justifiable return? The slab is unchanged. The buyer's perception of the quality of the card has, though.
PWCC clearly says it is not. Makes sense, since most disagreements are pretty minor, given the quality of PSA/SGC grading. But, for something like PRO or another garbage grader, could the disparity between "flip grade" and "actual grade" be big enough to justify a return on essentially the grounds of SNAD?
<< <i>Dpeck, if the seller represented the cards as "high grade" Ryan rookies and, once in hand, a buyer determined that they were actually "low grade" by their standards, would that be a justifiable return? The slab is unchanged. The buyer's perception of the quality of the card has, though. >>
I personally would never buy a card like this. That being said if you bought a 10+ card with a pristine rating based on the third party authenticators grading it is not the sellers fault. In my view common sense would steer you clear of these cards but we are all susceptible to stupid purchases fueled by the profit motive.
There are loads of cards that show up on these boards that many question the grade in top tier third party grading companies slabs. Unless the card had an error in the listing or was misrepresented like suggesting a PSA 9OC is equivalent to a PSA 9 mint grade I think the sale should stand.
The whole idea of third party grading is to take our opinions out of the equation. I am fine with that. Our opinion is relegated to what we are willing to pay for the card.
<< <i>OK. I won't proceed with a bunch of lawyering, because, well, I'm not a lawyer.
But, you see that this turns on the question of what sufficiently constitutes misrepresentation.
Some might say that PRO Grade slabs that say "10+ PRISTINE!!! OMG WOW" but actually contain EX+ (at best) cards are misrepresentation.
Some might say that anyone who isn't a total n00b should know that, thus they were not misrepresented (and were really just trying to make a buck).
But, you can see how it's at least a grey area? >>
There is a difference between not getting the specific card you were buying based on brand then the perceived condition. Condition is an opinion, brand is a fact.
<< <i>OK. I won't proceed with a bunch of lawyering, because, well, I'm not a lawyer.
But, you see that this turns on the question of what sufficiently constitutes misrepresentation.
Some might say that PRO Grade slabs that say "10+ PRISTINE!!! OMG WOW" but actually contain EX+ (at best) cards are misrepresentation.
Some might say that anyone who isn't a total n00b should know that, thus they were not misrepresented (and were really just trying to make a buck).
So, you can see how it's at least a grey area?
EDIT: Someday, I will manage to write a post without a grammatical error. Someday ... >>
If a seller has a card listed and says it is NM-MT and it has an obvious wrinkle or crease on the back that can't be seen in a scan and the buyer gets the card and wants to send it back I am fine with that.
In this case the cards were in third party holders.
We can all poke fun at this card grading company but they rendered an opinion and the seller showed the card with a scan and a buyer thought he was getting a steal.
It happens every day. In this case he would have lost.
There are loads of examples of collectors buying cards and getting them to bump. Should they have to go back to the seller and share the profits? Of course not.
All debate aside, if you do not want to offer a return on a TPG card, you choose the "no returns" option when listing the card, NOT the 14-day return option. At least then you can argue that the buyer did not read or abide by the terms when bidding. You can't have it both ways.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>What is the "Milton Bradley" refrerence about? >>
Assuming you are being serious. There are two different versions of the Ryan rookie and one is a Milton Bradley version. Anytime this card is being discussed a few smart comments are made and it is in reference to a specific board member.
by the way - this is why I posted this thread. NOT to ask will I make out okay. It was to solicit expert opinion on whether these looked altered, as I was guaranteed that they were not. all this stuff about it's wrong to return stuff is just nonsense. I have 7 years and nearly 8K of successful transactions. how many returns? TONS! it happens and any seller knows it's part of doing business, no matter how aggravating when the buyer is being unreasonable. you eat the postage and move on.
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
The seller sold them to the OP on May 25th. OP returned them. Seller sold them again on June 12th for $1600 and received postitive feedback on June 13th. They were relisted again today, June 14th. Yeah, this is a legit seller. James
Comments
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
James >>
Nigel Tufnel: The numbers all go to eleven. Look, right across the board, eleven, eleven, eleven and...
Marty DiBergi: Oh, I see. And most amps go up to ten?
Nigel Tufnel: Exactly.
Marty DiBergi: Does that mean it's louder? Is it any louder?
Nigel Tufnel: Well, it's one louder, isn't it? It's not ten. You see, most blokes, you know, will be playing at ten. You're on ten here, all the way up, all the way up, all the way up, you're on ten on your guitar. Where can you go from there? Where?
Marty DiBergi: I don't know.
Nigel Tufnel: Nowhere. Exactly. What we do is, if we need that extra push over the cliff, you know what we do?
Marty DiBergi: Put it up to eleven.
Nigel Tufnel: Eleven. Exactly. One louder.
Marty DiBergi: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top number and make that a little louder?
Nigel Tufnel: [pause] These go to eleven.
He thought he hit a home run and was getting the better end of the stick until many on the boards convinced him otherwise.
How does something like this work? Do you simply say you don't like the item?
<< <i>I have never returned anything on EBAY. Under what grounds can the OP return the cards?
He thought he hit a home run and was getting the better end of the stick until many on the boards convinced him otherwise.
How does something like this work? Do you simply say you don't like the item? >>
The seller has a clearly stipulated 14-day return policy listed in the auction, which essentially covers any reason.
Even if there weren't a return option, though, cards that are altered or trimmed are covered by ebay buyer protection. I don't know if this is still the case, but at one point, only PSA, SGC and BGS graded cards were even permitted to be sold on ebay.
On a side note, his denigration of PSA regarding them grading altered or trimmed cards to bolster these sad examples is rather telling, imo.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>
<< <i>I have never returned anything on EBAY. Under what grounds can the OP return the cards?
He thought he hit a home run and was getting the better end of the stick until many on the boards convinced him otherwise.
How does something like this work? Do you simply say you don't like the item? >>
The seller has a clearly stipulated 14-day return policy listed in the auction, which essentially covers any reason.
Even if there weren't a return option, though, cards that are altered or trimmed are covered by ebay buyer protection. I don't know if this is still the case, but at one point, only PSA, SGC and BGS graded cards were even permitted to be sold on ebay.
On a side note, his denigration of PSA regarding them grading altered or trimmed cards to bolster these sad examples is rather telling, imo. >>
Here is PWCC return policy. I see it the same way. The cards may be trimmed but there is no proof. The buyer has buyers remorse and to me that is not a good enough reason. Had he never started this thread he would have thought he was in the money. Instead he found out he wasn't. Sometimes you buy things and regret it but it is not the sellers fault. The cards were scanned and graded with a low end company and that was known from the start. I could see the seller fighting this one and he may lose but he has a fair argument.
Our 14-day return policy is not a 'no questions asked' return policy. Returns are only accepted if an item is misrepresented in the auction title/description/images, email, or phone communication. Buyer's remorse is not a valid reason for return. We strive to be reasonable in the event of a disagreement and ask that buyers afford us the same level of fairness. Misrepresentation of an auction item is exceedingly rare. Regarding professionally graded cards: we at PWCC are not professional graders so we trust in the reputation and opinion of 3rd party professional graders. Professional grading is subjective and different 3rd party graders will often disagree over the grading on a single card. Such a disagreement is NOT a justifiable reason for a return with PWCC. As a broker of graded sportscards, our responsibility is the accurate description and delivery of the item advertised, but is not to guarantee how a graded card will be assessed by another grading company. Any issue a buyer has with a card's 3rd party grade should be addressed with the company that graded the card, not PWCC. Returned items must be received back in the condition they were received. Original shipping will be refunded along with the full purchase price upon receiving back a returned item.
I don't agree with returns for any reason, but for cards graded by this company which the seller is guaranteeing as authentic and unaltered? And in an auction where the seller states he will accept a return? Like I said, at one time ebay didn't even allow such cards to be sold as only the "big three" were recognized TPGs, but I certainly don't think the buyer should have to be stuck with an item that is very likely (and almost certainly) NOT as described. Maybe you do, but most people with a sense of fairness would not.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>A seller can try and state whatever conditions they want, but those who have been on ebay long enough know that a buyer will get a refund in any case, regardless of circumastance if a return privilege is offered, and in many cases even when it is not. You can try and "fight the return" any way you want, but as as a seller you will lose. That's just the way it is on ebay, and it has been that way for quite some time. Ask miniduff about the guy who returned his factory sealed set because after opening it, the cards weren't as mint as expected.
I don't agree with returns for any reason, but for cards graded by this company which the seller is guaranteeing as authentic and unaltered? And in an auction where the seller states he will accept a return? Like I said, at one time ebay didn't even allow such cards to be sold as only the "big three" were recognized TPGs, but I certainly don't think the buyer should have to be stuck with an item that is very likely (and almost certainly) NOT as described. Maybe you do, but most people with a sense of fairness would not. >>
No one held a gun to his head and said you must buy these cards. For a time he thought he was in a profit. Personally I think that if you feel that a deal is possible and pull the trigger you own it. There have been examples on this board of high dollar cards coming out of BCCG slabs when many have bashed them to death so there are examples of huge wins when buying lower quality slabs.
The person who pulled the trigger is not a novice card buyer and has experience with the major grading companies. If this was a novice collector I might be more sympathetic.
I made one of the most bone headed moves ever witnessed on these boards when I bought the hit by pitch kings card and paid for it and owned up to it. I was hoping for a quick profit and instead it turned into a 90% loss. That is the risk you take.
The card may be garbage but he tried to convince you all it was good and to me that means you must keep it.
I would imagine he will be fine and especially if he paid with a credit card but I see it how Brent does. I wonder what kind of return issues Brent has with that policy clearly in every auction description.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
<< <i>I do understand your point, and to an extent I do agree with you, but in this case the seller (wrongly, imo) essentially guarantees the cards are authentic and unaltered when they are most likely not and he also offers a return privilege. If he doesn't want to offer that option, he ought to list the cards and simply state no returns. Don't offer a policy you aren't going to honor. >>
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you could send these in on a cross over and ask for an AUTH grade.
If they deem they are trimmed you would have evidence and that would satisfy the sellers return policy and clearly make you a winner in an EBAY or PayPal dispute.
Personally I think dealing in cards in these slabs is shady but there is a market for it as people are still willing to buy with hopes of hitting the lottery.
<< <i>
<< <i>I do understand your point, and to an extent I do agree with you, but in this case the seller (wrongly, imo) essentially guarantees the cards are authentic and unaltered when they are most likely not and he also offers a return privilege. If he doesn't want to offer that option, he ought to list the cards and simply state no returns. Don't offer a policy you aren't going to honor. >>
Correct me if I am wrong but I believe you could send these in on a cross over and ask for an AUTH grade.
If they deem they are trimmed you would have evidence and that would satisfy the sellers return policy and clearly make you a winner in an EBAY or PayPal dispute.
Personally I think dealing in cards in these slabs is shady but there is a market for it as people are still willing to buy with hopes of hitting the lottery. >>
That may work, depending on the service level and turnaround time (ebay disputes must be filled within 45 calendar days), but in this case, I doubt the OP was hoping for an Authentic grade. Lesson learned here is that if a Ryan RC is in an XYZ holder, there is almost certainly a valid reason for that. As a wise man once said, "All that glitters is not gold."
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
While that principle seems like the best policy to me, Grote is right that it is no defense in the court of eBay. I don't really think Dpeck is disagreeing that returns do happen all the time even when there isn't a good reason. Just because you shouldn't, doesn't mean you can't. Credit card chargebacks are another even more aggressive option. I've said it before, but the chances that a buyer who does not want to keep an item and pursues all options for a refund will be stuck with it is almost none.
In this case, the question is: did the seller misrepresent by saying unaltered? If so, by what standards is that judged?
The OP went back and forth with some experienced hobby participants and was clearly trying to make money on the buy and thought he had.
To me this points to buyers remorse as the reason for a return and I am not in favor of these.
PWCC clearly says it is not. Makes sense, since most disagreements are pretty minor, given the quality of PSA/SGC grading. But, for something like PRO or another garbage grader, could the disparity between "flip grade" and "actual grade" be big enough to justify a return on essentially the grounds of SNAD?
<< <i>Dpeck, if the seller represented the cards as "high grade" Ryan rookies and, once in hand, a buyer determined that they were actually "low grade" by their standards, would that be a justifiable return? The slab is unchanged. The buyer's perception of the quality of the card has, though. >>
I personally would never buy a card like this. That being said if you bought a 10+ card with a pristine rating based on the third party authenticators grading it is not the sellers fault. In my view common sense would steer you clear of these cards but we are all susceptible to stupid purchases fueled by the profit motive.
There are loads of cards that show up on these boards that many question the grade in top tier third party grading companies slabs. Unless the card had an error in the listing or was misrepresented like suggesting a PSA 9OC is equivalent to a PSA 9 mint grade I think the sale should stand.
The whole idea of third party grading is to take our opinions out of the equation. I am fine with that. Our opinion is relegated to what we are willing to pay for the card.
Buyer purchases 1984 O-Pee-Chee PSA 9 Steve Yzerman rookie for $225.
Gets it in hand, realizes that it is actually a Topps card worth about $20 that has been mislabeled as OPC.
Return?
<< <i>One more hypothetical:
Buyer purchases 1984 O-Pee-Chee PSA 9 Steve Yzerman rookie for $225.
Gets it in hand, realizes that it is actually a Topps card worth about $20 that has been mislabeled as OPC.
Return? >>
Yes
If it was said to be the OPC version and turns out not to be it was misrepresented.
But, you see that this turns on the question of what sufficiently constitutes misrepresentation.
Some might say that PRO Grade slabs that say "10+ PRISTINE!!! OMG WOW" but actually contain EX+ (at best) cards are misrepresentation.
Some might say that anyone who isn't a total n00b should know that, thus they were not misrepresented (and were really just trying to make a buck).
So, you can see how it's at least a grey area?
EDIT: Someday, I will manage to write a post without a grammatical error. Someday ...
<< <i>OK. I won't proceed with a bunch of lawyering, because, well, I'm not a lawyer.
But, you see that this turns on the question of what sufficiently constitutes misrepresentation.
Some might say that PRO Grade slabs that say "10+ PRISTINE!!! OMG WOW" but actually contain EX+ (at best) cards are misrepresentation.
Some might say that anyone who isn't a total n00b should know that, thus they were not misrepresented (and were really just trying to make a buck).
But, you can see how it's at least a grey area? >>
There is a difference between not getting the specific card you were buying based on brand then the perceived condition. Condition is an opinion, brand is a fact.
I just wanted to point out that what you and I think is not the same as what eBay thinks. And, there is a semi-reasonable opposing case.
That's all.
<< <i>OK. I won't proceed with a bunch of lawyering, because, well, I'm not a lawyer.
But, you see that this turns on the question of what sufficiently constitutes misrepresentation.
Some might say that PRO Grade slabs that say "10+ PRISTINE!!! OMG WOW" but actually contain EX+ (at best) cards are misrepresentation.
Some might say that anyone who isn't a total n00b should know that, thus they were not misrepresented (and were really just trying to make a buck).
So, you can see how it's at least a grey area?
EDIT: Someday, I will manage to write a post without a grammatical error. Someday ... >>
If a seller has a card listed and says it is NM-MT and it has an obvious wrinkle or crease on the back that can't be seen in a scan and the buyer gets the card and wants to send it back I am fine with that.
In this case the cards were in third party holders.
We can all poke fun at this card grading company but they rendered an opinion and the seller showed the card with a scan and a buyer thought he was getting a steal.
It happens every day. In this case he would have lost.
There are loads of examples of collectors buying cards and getting them to bump. Should they have to go back to the seller and share the profits? Of course not.
Collecting 1970s Topps baseball wax, rack and cello packs, as well as PCGS graded Half Cents, Large Cents, Two Cent pieces and Three Cent Silver pieces.
Supposition yes...
With all that said, seller did have a return policy...
<< <i>What is the "Milton Bradley" refrerence about? >>
it's like that dreadful acne so many of us used to have as adolescents.
no matter what you tried it wouldn't go away. and just got worse.
<< <i>What is the "Milton Bradley" refrerence about? >>
Assuming you are being serious. There are two different versions of the Ryan rookie and one is a Milton Bradley version. Anytime this card is being discussed a few smart comments are made and it is in reference to a specific board member.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-LOT-OF-1968-Topps-177-Nolan-Ryan-Rookie-PCG-10-PRISTINE-GEM-Have-PSA-Grade-/301214869346?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item4621ce2762
Doug
Liquidating my collection for the 3rd and final time. Time for others to enjoy what I have enjoyed over the last several decades. Money could be put to better use.
James
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<< <i>What is the "Milton Bradley" refrerence about? >>
it's like that dreadful acne so many of us used to have as adolescents.
no matter what you tried it wouldn't go away. and just got worse. >>
Jeff, once again you do not disappoint. Love reading your posts, even the ones I don't quite understand.
Dodgers collection scans | Brett Butler registry | 1978 Dodgers - straight 9s, homie
<< <i>Anyone have experience with the seller's mattresses? Look comfortable. >>
Maybe he sells the mattresses so he has a comfortable bed for when he screws his buyers.
James