Help. Best way to submit these Ryan Rookies

angelenocarddude

I just bought these at Ebay. Made a lowish offer and was surprised that it was accepted. Terms of auction says that he guarantees not altered. So, I really have no choice but to sumbit for crossover grading. Right? Also, he has sold a few other cards graded by this same grader and has 100% feedback. All high end stuff.

I have never done this before. In your experience, does subbing in a junk holder bias graders against? I was going to sub with min of 8. They look very sharp and seem to measure correctly. Thoughts? Appreciate it.

EagleEyeKid

At least these guys no longer use screwdown holders with rivets.
You still have to ask yourself, why are these cards in these holders in the first place?
I think if you sub them in junk holders, they'll just laugh at you and keep your money.

I would crack out the bottom one and sub it raw. I would send the top one in and ask for a min of 5.

Edit: Didn't the reprints have darker red letters for 1968 rookie pictures? I see the Mets logo is different
in both. One is blue and one is purple, but what the hell do I know.

angelenocarddude

if unaltered, they're nowhere near 5s. that's silly. i have had an 8 before and it was right in this range (raw submit).

EagleEyeKid

Good luck! You can try and defend your purchase anyway you'd like, but unless you got these 2 cards for peanuts
I don't think your results will be good. Any big name cards that are not in the big 3 automatically raises red flags.

angelenocarddude

that's the point of my post - putting a reasonably high value on min grade because i'd rather get it back in the orig case if it turns out to be altered in any way so that i can make a claim against seller and refund. if i crack out, pretty hard to prove my case. BUT i fear that i'll end up with lower grades if in this cruddy graders case in the first place if unaltered.

EagleEyeKid

Okay gotcha. Then you'll have to send it in an express service to get them back quickly.
Will PSA make a notation if the card has been altered on crossovers? I've never done one, so I don't know.
But regardless, hope you hit it big.

angelenocarddude

i believe they will reject it if evidence of alteration, same as a raw card.

jfkheat

Something to think about, if these cards would grade PSA 8, why are they in a Pro holder? Anyone that knows anything about graded cards knows that a PSA graded card will sell for 10 times, or more, what a Pro graded card would sell for. If you had a Ryan rookie in hand and you thought it would grade a PSA 8 would you send it to PSA or Pro? They are in Pro slabs for a reason. What the heck is a 10+?
James

angelenocarddude

sure. that's the obvious question, right? nothing new there. auction says graded 10+ years ago and stashed away. guy has also sold 3 52 mantles and jordan rookies in recent times. good feedback, for what it's worth. none psa or beckett. some sgc

jfkheat

I just looked at the listing. I think the major problem you have it that if you crack them out and submit them to PSA and there are issues with the cards you will not win a claim if you file one with Ebay because you will have no way to prove they are thesame cards you received. If you send them to PSA in the PRO slabs will PSA be able to determine if the cards have been altered or are reprints without busting them out of the slab? If PSA cracks them out of the slab and there is a problem with the cards you will be in the same boat as if you busted the slabs. I'm not trying to be a smart azz but you should have asked questions here before buying the cards.
James

grote15

You have a connundrum. If you submit the cards in those holders, there's going to be a healthy amount of skepticism on PSA's part (and rightfully so), but if you crack them out, you won't get your money back if they come back altered or trimmed (or not authentic). Your best shot is to submit them raw, but I can't say I can recall anyone ever crossing a card of that magnitude from PRO to PSA on a crossover service. Good luck!

charrigan

This seller is also listing a lot of 5 OPC Gretzky rookies and a number of other high value cards.

I would just return them and pass. Basic reason as stated by others. You CANT CANT CANT crack them out (because, in all probability, they are fakes or altered) and that would void your ability to seek a refund. If subbing to PSA, I wouldn't put a min grade (unless you are into them for the price of, say, a PSA 5 or whatever). No chance of crossing to PSA 8s, IMO. It's risk:reward, but the cost of expedited grading alone > slim chance of a cross. So, I would return and pass.

charrigan

Can you show larger scans of the cards? Do you have them in hand?

PMKAY

Return them for a refund. Unfortunately he will just relist them and take advantage of someone else.

Ltl509

Yeah but psa screws up too. I submitted a Ryan RC that I bought in 1985 from a guy at a garage sale that was selling his kids card. That Ryan came back "trimmed" no F'n way. Psa might be #1 but those graders have eyes same as the rest and screw up. Never sending anything back to those donkeys.

charrigan

<< <i>Yeah but psa screws up too. I submitted a Ryan RC that I bought in 1985 from a guy at a garage sale that was selling his kids card. That Ryan came back "trimmed" no F'n way. Psa might be #1 but those graders have eyes same as the rest and screw up. Never sending anything back to those donkeys. >>



Don't want to derail whole thread, but god I do love anecdotal "one time they screwed up ergo no one should ever use them" posts. Pls tell us more.

charrigan

<< <i>I just bought these at Ebay. Made a lowish offer and was surprised that it was accepted. >>



This is also a red flag.

vintagefun

I'm a subbing novice, but could you use crossover service with min grade 5 in hopes to get them in PSA holder. That gets the authenticity out of the way. Once back send for review service and hope they bump.

Field seems skeptical they'll even grade so maybe best to punt now.

Good luck whichever way you go.

stormtrooper80

Those might be Milton Bradleys. Anyone here know anything about that?

ClockworkAngel

The Ryans look trimmed, but I'm no expert.

Cracking is your only hope. And I would say go to PSA, then SGC, then BGS. If any of those 3 grade it you might make some money out of the deal

vols1

I think you got what you paid for...two PSA 6's

otwcards

Why is it that when the group is asked for an opinion and the logic of the group is sound, does the person asking for opinions find reason to reject such responses with the logic that they seem justified in believing? If the OP thinks he knows better, then more power to him. I think the majority have had enough experience and history to have made the points that they've made and not have them called into question. Best of luck to the OP in whatever he plans to do with the cards. My opinion is that they are not close to PSA 8 quality based upon the scans provided (not even considering the "holders."

Dboneesq

Phil,

For the price you paid, if they both come back PSA "7", you LOSE money. I'd take the advice that most people have already given you ... send them back and get your money back. I think it would be a HUGE risk to try to get either one in a PSA "8" holder. Best of luck, whatever you choose to do.

Webb63

I don't know anything about that grading company but I assume their cert number is unique. If so, that same card (the 10+) was sold by another seller on May 4th. That adds another red flag doesn't it?

jfkheat

<< <i>I don't know anything about that grading company but I assume their cert number is unique. If so, that same card (the 10+) was sold by another seller on May 4th. That adds another red flag doesn't it? >>



The other one "sold" on April 22nd buy the same seller that the OP bought these two from.
James

BLUEJAYWAY

<< <i>At least these guys no longer use screwdown holders with rivets.
You still have to ask yourself, why are these cards in these holders in the first place?
I think if you sub them in junk holders, they'll just laugh at you and keep your money.

I would crack out the bottom one and sub it raw. I would send the top one in and ask for a min of 5.

Edit: Didn't the reprints have darker red letters for 1968 rookie pictures? I see the Mets logo is different
in both. One is blue and one is purple, but what the hell do I know. >>

Not only that but the top cards"1968 ROOKIE STARS" is more orange while the bottom one of the same #/lettering is more red.

addicted2ebay

Looking at his feedback for purchases then clicking on the stars for that seller you can then find his account under that sellers feedback "left for buyer" and it shows that he buys a lot of Psa 7 cards. My guess is that is what he then turns into his "10's". You should get your money back but if you buy his Jordan or Gretzky "10's" you can feel free to crack those out and if they do not grade to what you'd like you would win a SNAD case because there not allowed to be sold in any holder on eBay other than the big three (trust me I learned this the hard way).

angelenocarddude

thanks for all. i will prob just send them back for a refund, but will talk to PSA first about whether they can determine whether altered inside the cases. I have just spent 20 minutes looking at them through a loupe vs. my own raw card in my colleciton, and the dot patterns are consistent. i don't know for sure, of course, but they do not seem to be fakes.

Arsenal83

Can someone please post a link to the listing?

Stingray

I have to believe that top one is trimmed??

mbz430e

Without the cards in hand it is impossible to tell, but a PSA 7 grade on either one of those cards would be stretch just based on four corner wear. I would expect a 5 and 6 grade from what I can see. Return the cards and get a full refund, you'll sleep better. The possibility of these being Milton Bradley's is also pretty real which if they are and they grade out a 6, you lose. Let us know what you decide, and what the final outcome is. Just a footnote, there is a good bit of red ink bleed around the header and the emblem ink in the caps are not crisp, they seem distorted by the scans sent.

itzagoner

<< <i>The possibility of these being Milton Bradley's is also pretty real...... >>





never in all my days at this forum have i ever read through a thread which made my head damn near swivel off its axis. this one is getting very close.

otwcards

<< <i>

<< <i>The possibility of these being Milton Bradley's is also pretty real...... >>





never in all my days at this forum have i ever read through a thread which made my head damn near swivel off its axis. this one is getting very close. >>





You spin me right round, baby
Right round like a record, baby
Right round round round
You spin me right round, baby
Right round like a record, baby
Right round round round

JHS5120

I have no idea what you paid for these cards nor do I have any skin in this game, but if you paid more than $500 you got cheated.

Mickey71

You could send them crossover with a minimum of 1. Although, on vintage cards.....some would argue if a crossover service even exists. I've seen subs of centered SGC 88's and 92's not get a minimum of 8. My 1st crossover I sent in 10 SGC and GAI 8 and above that were previously in PSA holders and none crossed. Broke them out and all graded at 8 or higher. Major HOF cards. They had said EOT on all of the GAI's and minimum grade on the SGC. These were cards that I sent in on the EXEMPLAR service with GAI years before. I was pissed. For those who do not know....EXEMPLAR meant that GAI was agreeing with the grade and would holder it (these were sent in PSA 8 holders)....which told the owner that both companies had graded the card. They would write EXEMPLAR on the holder with the grade.

Mickey71

I would say based on the scans that if unaltered and original.....you're looking at 5-6 grades. Not sure where you are seeing 8 potential; but the scans are junky, so who knows. Good luck; but if you paid more than 100 a piece....return them with signature confirmation and insurance....hell, have the National Guard deliver them and have Nolan Ryan sign for them himself as you are just waiting to get ripped off. Please don't buy vintage in these type holders....I don't want PAYPAL to keep upping their rates to fund these types of purchases with buyer protection.

WinPitcher

I replied over at the non sports forum....

angelenocarddude

seding them back. prob not worth the risk, i.e., you have convinced me.

Burks

1. Send them back, refund.

2. Submit them in the holders, get them crossed at any grade, get them back, crack, and resend raw. At least you know the cards are then legit.

3. Crack and pray to whatever deity you want that they aren't fake or altered.



You can find deals in holders outside the top 3. Happens a lot in the coin world, you just have to be very educated.

Dboneesq

<< <i>I have no idea what you paid for these cards nor do I have any skin in this game, but if you paid more than $500 you got cheated. >>


Looks like three times that ... $1,500.00.

grote15

I think you made the right decision to return them.

charrigan

Anyone want some Gretzkys?

BobS

1st one, top border is trimmed. Haven't looked closely at the rest of the scans/cards, but I saw that from a mile away. It's a trapezoid

Hope you end up getting your money back and just buying a nice 7 or 8


Bob.

miklia

I only buy 10+ or higher.

angelenocarddude

update: has passive/aggessively fought me at every turn on return. didn't respond to case for several days. cards were returned and received friday. no response to emails. still hasn't refunded. just dropped neg feedback, which I NEVER do. avoid this guy, if that isn't already obvious. let me be the idiot for the rest of you.

grote15

If you haven't done so, open a claim immediately. Don't rely on this clown to refund you.

angelenocarddude

yep. escalated to a claim this morning.

charrigan

Please keep this thread updated as the claim progresses. I'd like to know how eBay handles it if the seller is a pain. Don't forget the credit card dispute option as back-up. Good luck.

charrigan

Any update? Looks like your Neg was removed.

angelenocarddude

that is very weird. i certainly didn't violate any policy on the feedback. guy claimed he had death in the family, etc., but i hadn't done anything to remove it. strange.

PMKAY

Sounds like he would have had an easy time convincing ebay to remove that feedback. He likely claimed he had done nothing wrong and was still within the time frame of being able to issue the refund.