another c/s on a 1807 50c little known maker O-105 R-5
Realone
Posts: 18,519 ✭✭✭✭✭
EX:Henry Hilgard/Tony Terranova and on a Overton-105 R-5. Rulau says the is a Maverick, a Mav54 R-9 , "Whitcom c/s on U.S. 1807 & 1831 Half dollar". The 1831 is the Brunk Plate btw. Otherwise not much known about him.
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have these c/s coins been imaged by mg? they seem awfully sharp and evenly lit. sure wish they were 500x500 though. i've seen all the ones you've posted and have enjoyed them all.
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WOW!
Love it, you have a great collection there.
BHNC #203
"135. Countermarked Rare Brockage Large Cent! 1849. The date of this coin can be seen in mirror image on the reverse as 184- with the last digit overstruck by the countermark so it might be "1849" or "1848" The large cent is slightly broad struck because of the multiple strikes. The reverse had at least two solid coin die incuse stampings with a shift of about 5 degrees between them, which resulted in offset stars. It finally was stamped at an extreme angle by the edge of another coin, which did not eject. This resulted in a depressed area of reeding at the coin's edge and also flattened part of the obverse date. The coin then circulated for some time before being stamped on both the obverse and reverse by "H. Whitcombe" This piece was called "H. Whitcomb" by others, and was listed as Brunk W-476, "H. Whitcomb" before it could be examined, and the "e" at the end of the merchant's name recognized. Rare Large Cent brockage, probably the only brockage countermarked! $1500.00-2000.00+"
"397. Early American "A. Whitcom" Bar Punch with July 1827 Date! Enigmatic, large bar punch in Script! This should be identifiable, but no one has identified it yet! The punch is so large that it inevitably is weakly struck, and the full mark had to be pieced together by examining a number of specimens. "1827:6" very small numerals above large signature "A. Whitcom", all in a single, large bar stamp with toothed edge. Mostly bold F/VF, left side weaker. On choice VG/Fine 1817 Bust Half Dollar. $250.00-300.00+
COMMENT: 2003 Brunk Color Cover Photo. 1987 Brunk Plate."
from:
http://www.exonumia.com/sale11/alla.htm
It seems clear on this large cent example that the script stamp is H. Whitcom, not A. Whitcom.
Plus we have the HW initial stamp tied in on the same coin.
On the previous 1817 bust half example, any letter left of Whitcom seems unclear.
It is a puzzle as to why there is no b at the end, i.e. Whitcomb .
from a 2011 thread:
http://forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm?catid=26&threadid=816279
And a 2012 ebay listing suggests he is Henry Whitcomb, from Adams, NY.
"A wonderful counterstamp listed in the main section of the Brunk reference as #W-479...the beautiful script mark of Henry Whitcomb as "H. WHITCOMB. ADAMS" in raised letters within a shaped depression. The highly respected and ingenious Adams, NY jeweler, watchmaker and inventor.
Henry Whitcomb arrived in Adams, NY in 1804 as a jeweler and watchmaker. He was a respected craftsman known to be extremely precise about the measurement of time. For many years he regulated the time of the Rome and Watertown Railroad. He was also a jeweler of great ingenuity -- according the the History of Jefferson County by John A Haddock, "few people in the vicinity cared to purchase a timepiece that had not been approved by Henry Whitcomb." As an inventor, he was granted a patent on October 25, 1827 for an improvement in the method of discharging cannon and ship-guns. His name is still well remembered in the Adams NY area."
http://www.ebay.com/itm/179-2-reales-with-the-exquisite-counterstamp-of-Henry-Whitcomb-/110897120172?nma=true&si=yGwWrdjj5LLiVP0a0X2zTId0ifU%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557
Actually the above text is copied from the 2011-09-11 Stacks-Bowers auction, lots 836 and 837 (no illustration).
http://media.stacksbowers.com/VirtualCatalogs/2011/Stacks-Bowers-Galleries/10SBG_Sept2011_CatalogLR.pdf
The complete quote from the original source is:
"Henry Whitcomb came to Adams in 1804.
He was a jeweler of great ingenuity, and
few people in the vicinity cared to purchase a
timepiece that had not been approved by
Henry Whitcomb. He was exact to a
moment in his calculation of time, and for
many years he regulated the time of the
Rome and Watertown Railroad with great
precision. He married Miss Clarinda Holley,
and resided in Adams over sixty years. He
died in Detroit in 1886."
from p.379 of:
The Growth of a Century: as Illustrated in the History of Jefferson County ...
By John A. Haddock
http://books.google.com/books?id=KyUVAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA379#v=onepage&q&f=false
"H. Whitcomb appears in the 1859 & 1882 New York state business directory as a dealer in watches & jewelry in Adams."
from:
http://tokencatalog.com/token_record_forms.php?action=DisplayTokenRecord&td_id=282740&inventory_id=242827&attribution_id=288186&td_create_uid=39
Census records show Henry Whitcomb, born 1799/1800 Massachusetts, in Adams, NY with wife Clarinda Whitcomb and children Elizabeth and Edward:
1830, 1840, 1850, 1855, 1860, 1870, 1875, 1880
BHNC member # 184!
http://www.busthalfaddict.com
I agree there are some differences in the shapes of the letters - the O is somewhat square on the large cent.
But it is also interesting how much the letter shapes vary just on both sides of the large cent.
Perhaps the depth of the impression makes a substantial difference.
Diameters:
32.5 mm draped bust half dollar
27.5 mm 1849 large cent without brockage
Why does the first H not show on the bust half?
Perhaps the hammer blow was not straight on,
so the right side of the stamp got a deeper impression.
The field recess explains the very light W, but I don't know if the letter height on Y * is also lower than the bust.
It is also possible that the letters in the stamp are not fully level; the H might be higher, so it would give less of an impression.
My best guess is that Henry Whitcomb had at least 4 stamps:
H. Whitcom 1827/ in script letters
H. WHITCOMB in block serif letters, 27 mm wide for large cents
H. WHITCOMB or WHITCOM in block serif letters, 34 mm wide for halfs or larger coins
H.W in block serif letters
Since it appears to me he already spelled his name both ways (Whitcom and Whitcomb),
if the B is missing on the stamp for the half, I wouldn't be very surprised.
It does seem like there should be some trace of a B on the rim if it was in the stamp,
unless the rim is rather low there.
I can tell you are very enthusiastic regarding the counterstamped coins but are you really loving them too much?
Personally, I want to see the actual location stamped into the coin. Just my opinion.
<< <i>
<< <i>I'm afraid the "maverick" counterstamps just don't do anything for me. Are you sure you should be putting money into "mavericks"?
I can tell you are very enthusiastic regarding the counterstamped coins but are you really loving them too much?
Personally, I want to see the actual location stamped into the coin. Just my opinion. >>
Then you would also be ignoring the well known EB maverick c/s of Ephraim Brasher's counterstamp too. All opinions are welcome though!
The Brasher patterns don't depend on the counterstamps for their interest.