1921-D Silver Morgan "12th Dollar Released" PCGS, BU listing not mine

lostincoins · June 6, 2014 11:13AM

How do you feel about the asking price of this Morgan Dollar and what do you think about the engraving? ( does it detract, does it add value etc) This is not about the seller or the pics as they suck so as much as possible lets keep it about the coin. Edit to add: Whoops did not mean to make it sound like the dealer sucks. link to coin

Weiss · June 6, 2014 11:20AM

Neat piece of history. I'd pay a few hundred for it. Maybe up to $1,000 if I had some extra cash and it was graded AU58 like it should be. But $19,000 or anywhere near that much? No.

Rampage · June 6, 2014 11:23AM

The seller is optimistic in his asking price. He is also optimistic in the asking prices of a few other coins. Having said that, this is a really neat coin.

magikbilly · June 6, 2014 11:45AM

That is a very special coin - it is not often you get the exact moment - that snapshot so clear, something often so blurry. The correlation of between those qualities, of time and history, and the price, is not an easily quantifiable thing. This is not a normal coin. It is much more than a coin.

There was a somewhat maligned great ocean liner and World's Fair dealer, now passed, who had a saying (because people talked about his prices): "Show me another". Today, people miss him, his stock and his prices. He simply had stuff no one had, and priced accordingly. Those that bought and held, did very well, and he is only gone 6 years

Eric

MsMorrisine · June 6, 2014 11:55AM

is there anything out there that establishes the engraving as mint engraved?

magikbilly · June 6, 2014 11:58AM

<< is there anything out there that establishes the engraving as mint engraved? >>

I wondered this but have heard of this coin before and know Julian to be straight up.

Eric

19Lyds · June 6, 2014 12:06PM

Hmmm.

12th Dollar "released" from the 1st 100 Coined.

Could have been the 1st one coins, could have been the 100th one coined. Could have been the 120th coined if there had been 20 broadstrikes, or off centers or trial strikes?

I think the price is a bit steep but then, what do I know?

Oh yeah.

I know that I could not afford it at that price!

MsMorrisine · June 6, 2014 12:18PM

<< 

<< is there anything out there that establishes the engraving as mint engraved? >>

I wondered this but have heard of this coin before and know Julian to be straight up.

Eric >>

I recognize the seller.

I'd want something somewhere better than word of mouth.

How do I know it's not a 70 year old urban legend?

410a · June 6, 2014 12:21PM

I love the inscription on the coin and it adds to the value, although not $20,000 worth of value. No, not $20,000.

lostincoins · June 6, 2014 12:29PM

I would think that because the slab from PCGS states it is mint engraved that it was verified so the could say it is genuine. My thought on the engraving is that it is the 12th struck of the first 100 acceptable for circulation.

MsMorrisine · June 6, 2014 12:39PM

I noted the label says Mint and DW would complain that they would not put that on a label without knowing it's true.

Or... it's a mechanical error or some other.

I'm just amazed there is nothing out there that confirms the engraving other than word of mouth.

magikbilly · June 6, 2014 12:45PM

Hey, if I were actually buying it there would be due diligence to be sure! But no more or less than anything else I buy. I like Julian, especially since "working" with the proof Colombian thread, but when I buy I don't care who the seller is. My criteria - my dollar.

Eric

jughead1893 · June 6, 2014 12:51PM

heritage sold one yesterday for 13k

cmerlo1 · June 6, 2014 1:40PM

Want.

Wolf359 · June 6, 2014 1:55PM

<< heritage sold one yesterday for 13k >>

Links are usually helpful in times like this. 3rd one engraved & sold

Unknown · June 6, 2014 2:00PM

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Wolf359 · June 6, 2014 2:02PM

Opinions are interesting:

PCGS called the 12th engraved as code 80, (unlisted code).

Broadstruck · June 6, 2014 2:03PM

I've held the 12th in hand at a show and IMHO it's far nicer surface wise then 3rd that just sold.

lkeigwin · June 6, 2014 2:04PM

You've got $13,000 to spend. Considering all the other possible purchases, is this where you'd spend it?
Lance.

CaptHenway · June 6, 2014 2:11PM

<< is there anything out there that establishes the engraving as mint engraved? >>

I've handled two of the ten engraved pieces. The engraving style is very distinctive, and I'm sure that the die variety and die state could be established by comparison with other pieces.

Wolf359 · June 6, 2014 2:16PM

<< 

<< is there anything out there that establishes the engraving as mint engraved? >>

I've handled two of the ten engraved pieces. The engraving style is very distinctive, and I'm sure that the die variety and die state could be established by comparison with other pieces. >>

VAM-2, I've already checked Julians one years ago.

Unknown · June 6, 2014 2:19PM

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Broadstruck · June 6, 2014 2:27PM

<< 

<< I've held the 12th in hand at a show and IMHO it's far nicer surface wise then 3rd that just sold. >>

Did you see the 3rd in hand. so one can compare apples to apples? Is it $7k better than the HA.com? So when are you buying it, since you love it that is?

Technically the 3rd one is now the first one since the 1st two were lost. >>

No but glancing at the HA images you can easily tell it's pretty scruffy.

Although I'm not interested in either... My B-Day is coming up and if it's your treat Realone I'd prefer the 12th

Unknown · June 6, 2014 2:30PM

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LanceNewmanOCC · June 6, 2014 2:31PM

.
interesting. $20k obo and uploaded the minimum dimensions on images.

some of mine from older listings are still small but they are also the lower-dollar (under $50 or $20) and as i image coins i do them at 1000x1000 minimum.

talking about a lot of sellers, not just picking on julian.
.

Wabbit2313 · June 6, 2014 2:43PM

He has been taking offers on it for 3 years. You will eventually be able to put a zero after that 3 at this price.

MrEureka · June 6, 2014 3:05PM

I've held the 12th in hand at a show and IMHO it's far nicer surface wise then 3rd that just sold.

Agreed.

lostincoins · June 6, 2014 3:17PM

I find the coin interesting because of the history behind it. But at that price should I have the money it would not be where I would spend it.

Unknown · June 6, 2014 3:21PM

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lostincoins · June 6, 2014 3:28PM

Hum what if you found #1 when you buy your hoard from Monaco? What would that one be worth?

Broadstruck · June 6, 2014 3:33PM

<< I find the coin interesting because of the history behind it. But at that price should I have the money it would not be where I would spend it. >>

Same here as when I first saw one it intrigued me to research them and to me that's what this hobby is all about.

CaptHenway · June 6, 2014 11:32PM

<< 

<< I've held the 12th in hand at a show and IMHO it's far nicer surface wise then 3rd that just sold.

Agreed. >>

Remember it still has damaged surfaces and will never straight grade, some collectors find zero value to damaged coins others want a major price discount and who can blame them after all would your rather have a high grade example or example such as this that was ruined by a heavy handed worker exactly 97 years ago......

>>

Not a "heavy handed worker." The engraving was very professionally done by a skilled engraver.......93 years ago.

ricko · June 7, 2014 1:50AM

The price (IMO) is ludicrous.... I suppose those who collect provenances would be interested, but even then, this would be a waste of money. Cheers, RickO

BAJJERFAN · June 7, 2014 3:28AM

<< 

<< I find the coin interesting because of the history behind it. But at that price should I have the money it would not be where I would spend it. >>

Same here as when I first saw one it intrigued me to research them and to me that's what this hobby is all about. >>

How many did the Mint have engraved like this? Seems to me from previous discussions here that it was 20.

DCW · June 7, 2014 3:31AM

I'd use the money elsewhere, but I can see the appeal it could hold for some.

lostincoins · June 7, 2014 4:01AM

I was told by the seller that a large file of papers on the coin and it's history will be included. This could be interesting if some of the previous owners were well known etc as Ricko said " I suppose those who collect provenances would be interested"

MsMorrisine · June 7, 2014 4:06AM

Tsk. If I were still in MD I'd go scan them in.

Curse Moving!

CaptHenway · June 7, 2014 4:15AM

<< 

<< 

<< I find the coin interesting because of the history behind it. But at that price should I have the money it would not be where I would spend it. >>

Same here as when I first saw one it intrigued me to research them and to me that's what this hobby is all about. >>

How many did the Mint have engraved like this? Seems to me from previous discussions here that it was 20. >>

Apparently it was ten, numbers 3 through 12. Numbers 1 & 2 went to a museum, unengraved, but are not currently known.

jughead1893 · June 7, 2014 5:27AM

the mint should do 10 silver eagles like that every year.mix them in with the others.luck of the draw who gets one.

Tibor · June 7, 2014 6:01AM

David Bowers in his 2 volume book on silver dollars discusses these coins (pages 2685-2687).
In the 80's at a show in St. Louis there was one of these coins for sale at $3000. It sold rather
quickly, I wish I could have been the purchaser. I know that the engraving was not part of the
die but added later by mint employees; I would not consider this as damaged or "98".

Kove · June 7, 2014 6:18AM

<< 

<< I've held the 12th in hand at a show and IMHO it's far nicer surface wise then 3rd that just sold.

Agreed. >>

Remember it still has damaged surfaces and will never straight grade, some collectors find zero value to damaged coins others want a major price discount and who can blame them after all would your rather have a high grade example or example such as this that was ruined by a heavy handed worker exactly 97 years ago......

>>

Post-strike engraving that takes place at the mint is not necessarily damage.

PCGS straight-grades the "CAL" $2.50 pieces, where the CAL was added post-strike.

1921-D Silver Morgan "12th Dollar Released" PCGS, BU listing not mine

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1921-D Silver Morgan &quot;12th Dollar Released&quot; PCGS, BU listing not mine

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1921-D Silver Morgan "12th Dollar Released" PCGS, BU listing not mine