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I usually don't do this, but... Who agrees with this grade?

AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
This has to be the nicest 62 I have ever seen....

image

image

I may need new glasses.
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    illini420illini420 Posts: 11,587 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Hard to tell from the photo, but maybe it has some rub on the check and should technically be a 58... but was instead market graded up to a 62???

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    agentjim007agentjim007 Posts: 6,256
    There's a reason. You just can't see it.
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    Wabbit2313Wabbit2313 Posts: 7,268 ✭✭✭✭✭

    Price wise a 62 or 63 are a wash in this date. That being said, I agree that if there are some light hairlines, they were just being nice and gave it 62. (On the cheek.)
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    LindeDadLindeDad Posts: 18,766 ✭✭✭✭✭
    If I had sent it in it would probably, from first glance, of come home a 95.
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    telephoto1telephoto1 Posts: 4,966 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I like it more as a 63 but the soft strike may have been factored in.

    RIP Mom- 1932-2012
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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>Hard to tell from the photo, but maybe it has some rub on the check and should technically be a 58... but was instead market graded up to a 62??? >>



    this is what i am thinking too. it's a *really* nice 58. but, again...this is judging from the photo only. there's nothing like seeing it in hand. the grade is just an opinion anyway. the market pays what it's worth.
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    BustHalfBrianBustHalfBrian Posts: 4,199 ✭✭✭✭
    Luster looks subdued, which is sometimes enough (even if the coin is virtually mark-free) for harsh assessment by a TPG.
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    MGLICKERMGLICKER Posts: 7,995 ✭✭✭


    << <i>Hard to tell from the photo, but maybe it has some rub on the check and should technically be a 58... but was instead market graded up to a 62??? >>



    Agree. Quite a bit of activity on the cheek. Still very nice looking for the grade.
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    291fifth291fifth Posts: 25,206 ✭✭✭✭✭
    AU58.
    All glory is fleeting.
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    lostincoinslostincoins Posts: 4,278
    Send in for reconsideration. How is the in hand look compared to your pics which are just a bit dark?
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    BochimanBochiman Posts: 25,790 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Is it yours? Do you have it inhand?
    The thing about this type of thing is that the angle/lighting may be hiding/diminishing the look of a lot of scratches, particularly on the cheek.

    I've seen it in the past when I had a marked up cheeky morgan that graded MS62 by PCGS....I took a few photos at different angles, since it was nicely toned,
    When I reviewed the photos later, to see which best represented the look, I noticed that a couple of them made it very hard to see the scratches and that it made the coin look like a much better grade than it was.
    Could easily be nothing intentional with the photo (or, it could be), but the lighting/angle are super important at times.

    I've been told I tolerate fools poorly...that may explain things if I have a problem with you. Current ebay items - Nothing at the moment

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    indeetlibindeetlib Posts: 607 ✭✭
    The fields look 63/64, but it seems the hairlines on the cheek and eagle's breast are the culprit.
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    AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    No hairlines anywhere or real evidence of cleaning (coin has been dipped in its lifetime). That blemish in the field to the left of the nose is hugely superficial. The only real contact mark is on the reverse. Coin has full brilliant luster, not dull in any way. I do not buy the fact that they were being nice with an AU58 coin, PCGS is too "above board" to give away grades. All I can tell is the blemish in front of the nose looks bad head on (not pictured well) but when you spin the coin there is barely any abrasion on the surface. Also agree that the strike is not great, but not 62 bad.

    Yes the coin is mine, it came back as part of batch grading of 122 coins, almost all of which were graded accurately, this and one other (a 1935 Peace Dollar) seemed to be more harshly graded. This is not about value, just curious as to what other people may see. All good comments by the way.
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    MsMorrisineMsMorrisine Posts: 39,675 ✭✭✭✭✭
    luster? or lacking luster?

    it's a photo.

    it appears to have a cartwheel.



    mechanical error?

    chatter hidden in the dark part of the cartwheel?

    Current maintainer of Stone's Master List of Favorite Websites // My BST transactions
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    PokermandudePokermandude Posts: 2,713 ✭✭✭
    62 looks fair to me. FWIW, my second best GTG on it would be 58.
    http://stores.ebay.ca/Mattscoin - Canadian coins, World Coins, Silver, Gold, Coin lots, Modern Mint Products & Collections
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    123cents123cents Posts: 7,178 ✭✭✭
    Probably net graded for something you can see in the photos.
    image
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    mercurydimeguymercurydimeguy Posts: 4,634 ✭✭✭✭
    Not to hijack this thread, but I've had one head scratcher in the last 6 months that completely eats at me (I know, it's stupid, we should just let things like this go).

    Similar scenario but worse...cracked an 1869 PCGS MS63 5C from a PCGS holder because I was doing a raw submission (the coin looked stone cold 64'ish so I saw ZERO issues with doing this plus it's a $250 coin so no big deal). To my shock, the coin comes back "Genuine-Cleaning-Unc Details"

    Whoa????

    I look at the coin and said ... ah! I see, the coin has very typical die polish for shield nickels. I know it's die polish because a) it's raised, b) it's on the surface, and c) it doesn't go over the devices (which are nice and frosty). I laugh and say, ah...I get it, they quickly glanced at it and said, "oh hairlines," and bagged it. Cracked it again to send in with the next batch of raw coins, whoa!!! It came back Cleaning again.

    WTF???

    The coin has no cleaning, a blind person can see it's just die polish that exists on a good portion of all PCGS graded shield nickels. I have like 4 photographs already amassed of other coins in MS63 to MS65 PCGS slabs and thinking I'm going to ship this package back to PCGS with all this proof, yada yada...and then I just stopped myself. I'm about to spend in total now more than $120 in grading fees for a coin that I can buy new for $250...so I'm thinking I'm just going to crack the coin out, put it in a flip, and send it in for grading again in a couple years or when they have a CU members special or something (I cannot look at it in it's cleaning unc details slab, makes me sick).

    Moral of my story (back to the thread topic now)...sometimes you have to walk away and say, I agree to disagree... it's cheaper and in the long run you get to keep more of your sanity.

    BTW, the irony of my situation was that it was in PCGS MS63 holder to begin with. I bet had I not cracked it out of the PCGS MS63 holder and simply sent in for re-grading, the coin right now might very well be in a 64 holder or at least no less than it's original 63 grade... but this latter topic is probably a thread on to itself.

    OK...done venting now, I feel a little better image

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    messydeskmessydesk Posts: 20,784 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Strong die clash. Looks like VAM 30A. Can't tell how the luster looks on the cheek, but the picture does look nice for a 62.
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    TwoSides2aCoinTwoSides2aCoin Posts: 45,090 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I disagree. But that's just a guess.
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    pmacpmac Posts: 3,189 ✭✭✭
    I agree with you, the pictures make that look like a stunner!
    Paul
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    johnny9434johnny9434 Posts: 33,122 ✭✭✭✭✭
    who knows for sure
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    DIMEMANDIMEMAN Posts: 22,403 ✭✭✭✭✭
    >>> the grade is just an opinion anyway. the market pays what it's worth.<<<

    This is not necessarly true......I had a seated dime in a 63 holder that was 64 all day long. Several dealers agreed, but would only pay 63 money for it because it was in a 63 holder.

    I still have the dime.image

    As for the coin here......it is probably lack of blast. PCGS is all blast and will forgive marks. I have seen 65's with more marks than this coin!
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    TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭✭✭
    From the photo, I agree with the grade, but it does have very nice fields for a 62, particularly on the obverse.

    Tom

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    stevebensteveben Posts: 4,666 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>>>> the grade is just an opinion anyway. the market pays what it's worth.<<<

    This is not necessarly true......I had a seated dime in a 63 holder that was 64 all day long. Several dealers agreed, but would only pay 63 money for it because it was in a 63 holder.

    >>



    yeah, but you're talking about dealers.
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    lcoopielcoopie Posts: 8,875 ✭✭✭✭✭
    this may be one of those unable to grade by photo situations
    LCoopie = Les
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    SeattleSlammerSeattleSlammer Posts: 10,125 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Yes, it looks badly undergraded from those pics.
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    metalmeistermetalmeister Posts: 4,624 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Don't feel bad, I have plenty of higher grade coins sitting in 62, 63 and 64 holders. Graded on a Bad day? Eyes shot? Monday?
    email: ccacollectibles@yahoo.com

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    19Lyds19Lyds Posts: 26,503 ✭✭✭✭
    I agree with that grade!
    I decided to change calling the bathroom the John and renamed it the Jim. I feel so much better saying I went to the Jim this morning.



    The name is LEE!
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    CoinspongeCoinsponge Posts: 3,927 ✭✭✭
    I have a lot to learn in grading but I wonder if they diminished the grade do to what seems like weak luster on the cheek.
    Gold and silver are valuable but wisdom is priceless.
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    coinkatcoinkat Posts: 24,481 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Not wild about the overall look- that likely explains the 62

    Experience the World through Numismatics...it's more than you can imagine.

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    bidaskbidask Posts: 14,057 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I agree with the grade
    I manage money. I earn money. I save money .
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    AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Just for the record. I would buy all MS62 Morgans that look like this for full Ask (if CDN had an Ask for MS62's) from anyone who was ever looking to sell.

    image
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
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    rainbowroosierainbowroosie Posts: 4,875 ✭✭✭✭
    58
    "You keep your 1804 dollar and 1822 half eagle -- give me rainbow roosies in MS68."
    rainbowroosie April 1, 2003
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    the cheek looks smoothed. Maybe it was downgraded because there was very light cleaning.
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    ShortgapbobShortgapbob Posts: 2,332 ✭✭✭
    The coin looks to have high point hairlines across the cheek. PCGS is much more forgiving of bag marks on Morgan Dollars than they are of this high point friction/hairlines/slidelines, etc.
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -- Aristotle

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    NumisOxideNumisOxide Posts: 11,044 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Really clean fields for that grade but I agree the graders must of saw some light rub.
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    darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭
    The hairlines kill it. Lucky to get into a pcgs slab.
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    BryceMBryceM Posts: 11,937 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I dunno. I sent this walker in figuring it to be a 65:

    image

    It came back from our hosts at MS62.
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    Looks MS63 to me, maybe a lack of luster not seen in the photo?
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    COALPORTERCOALPORTER Posts: 2,900 ✭✭


    << <i>Hard to tell from the photo, but maybe it has some rub on the check and should technically be a 58... but was instead market graded up to a 62??? >>



    My first thought is that it is a slider they let slide into a MS holder
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    leothelyonleothelyon Posts: 8,552 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ok..........hmmm..........where can I send my $50 for this coin? image

    The more qualities observed in a coin, the more desirable that coin becomes!

    My Jefferson Nickel Collection

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    Cougar1978Cougar1978 Posts: 9,916 ✭✭✭✭✭
    How severe is the gash on the cheek? Could be the reason for the grade. Also the coin seems a little soft over the ear. Its an average strike but not wellstruck.
    Investor
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    darktonedarktone Posts: 8,437 ✭✭✭


    << <i>How severe is the gash on the cheek? Could be the reason for the grade. Also the coin seems a little soft over the ear. Its an average strike but not wellstruck. >>




    No, it's the hairlines that can easily be seen on the cheek and others start to appear when you look at the obverse fields.
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    RampageRampage Posts: 9,677 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Looks correctly graded to me.

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    TJM965TJM965 Posts: 446 ✭✭✭


    If you did not show the grade, I'm sure the guesses would have been in the 64 - 65 range. Once the grade is revealed, everyone is an expert.image
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    AMRCAMRC Posts: 4,280 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you did not show the grade, I'm sure the guesses would have been in the 64 - 65 range. Once the grade is revealed, everyone is an expert.image >>



    Great post.
    MLAeBayNumismatics: "The greatest hobby in the world!"
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    TPRCTPRC Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭✭✭


    << <i>If you did not show the grade, I'm sure the guesses would have been in the 64 - 65 range. Once the grade is revealed, everyone is an expert.image >>



    I don't agree with that. There are obvious dangers in grading from photos, but the dollar shown has fields indicative of a 64 or 65 and an unc reverse of 3 or so, but obvious rub on the cheek. That makes it a 2 to me, and possibly a 58, and I would have said that from the photo.

    Now, the walker above looks like a solid 4+ so something is there that is not showing on the photo, IMO.

    Tom

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    Looks like it was lightly cleaned. Downgraded because of that.
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    tradedollarnuttradedollarnut Posts: 20,647 ✭✭✭✭✭
    Morgans, because there are so many fresh from the bag examples, are severely punished for mishandling.

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