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CRO Coin Commentary: The Eric Newman Collection (Part IV, the colonials!)
MidLifeCrisis
Posts: 10,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
MidLifeCrisis
Posts: 10,614 ✭✭✭✭✭
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Successful BST deals with mustangt and jesbroken. Now EVERYTHING is for sale.
Doggedly collecting coins of the Central American Republic.
Visit the Society of US Pattern Collectors at USPatterns.com.
Appreciate the linky, MLC
Fellas, leave the tight pants to the ladies. If I can count the coins in your pockets you better use them to call a tailor. Stay thirsty my friends......
Nice article. Thanks to CRO for writing it, and thanks to the OP for linking it.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
The only point I could nitpick is that I was actually able to buy several coins cheaper than that 1723/2 Hibernia...which I suppose would make them the equivalent of a Mona Lisa postcard or something
area I don't collect.
Jim
Ouch. Interesting use of 'aggressive'....but I like it.
<< <i>The only point I could nitpick is that I was actually able to buy several coins cheaper than that 1723/2 Hibernia...which I suppose would make them the equivalent of a Mona Lisa postcard or something
Indeetlib is, er, was correct. Not sure how I screwed that up, but I did and it is now fixed.
Coin Rarities Online
mbogoman
https://pcgs.com/setregistry/collectors-showcase/classic-issues-colonials-through-1964/zambezi-collection-trade-dollars/7345Asesabi Lutho
carolinacollectorcoins.com
<< <i>Outstanding write-up John, I will certainly regret not being able to view the coins or attend the sale. I am a bit surprised that you did not comment on the 1722 Hibernia Farthing, which looked super in the photos. >>
Thanks!
The 1722 1/4d was not nearly as nice in hand.
Coin Rarities Online
The Newman house has been undergoing significant renovations since the auctions began. I think that they are "pulling an RYK" and adding a new kitchen with the proceeds from the coin sales.
I wa fortunate to snag one of the London elephant's but not the one that you commented well in
your writeup.
Enjoyed the read; much appreciate it.
raja
How do you gauge the participation of collectors vs dealers in the sale? Average mix?
Latin American Collection
<< <i>Very enjoyable read John. Thanks for taking the time.
How do you gauge the participation of collectors vs dealers in the sale? Average mix? >>
More collectors than at a typical sale, and many of the other dealers present and bidding in the room seemed to be primarily (or entirely) representing collectors, as opposed to buying for their own inventory.
The most striking thing to me was, as noted, the small crowd at lot viewing on Thursday. I still don't understand that.
Coin Rarities Online
Keeper of the VAM Catalog • Professional Coin Imaging • Prime Number Set • World Coins in Early America • British Trade Dollars • Variety Attribution
CoinJunkie: <<It's always fun to read detailed postmortem auction commentary from a noted expert, even in an area I don't collect.>>
SeattleSlammer: <<Ouch. Interesting use of 'aggressive'....but I like it.>>
Kaz: << This was really a historic sale and I hope others who were there will post reports >>
Guys, please remember that I have been reviewing coin auctions for more than twenty years, including countless reviews, in the past, in Numismatic News newspaper. My current column has appeared in a leading publication every Wednesday for more than three years. My coverage of auctions has lead to several awards from the NLG.
Of course, I agree that the CRO report is indeed interesting and educational. I was delighted to read it.
I, too, attended this auction and I spent several hours viewing lots earlier in the week.
CRO and I are in agreement about the quality of several of the coins sold. Please consider some comments here.
CRO: <<very reasonable $94,000>>
How is this amount so reasonable for an "AU-58" 1773/74 Virginia Pattern in silver? The Ford piece is reportedly a GEM and brought $115k not that long ago. The Newman piece is somewhat dull, has very noticeable wear, and has many contact marks on the face. I take the 94k result to be strong. Besides, this is an obscure pattern that few people have really thought much about. It is not needed for a set.
CRO: <<But the most anticipated coin in the NJ series would be the last one, lot #30233, the 1788 Maris 77-dd ‘Running Fox’ graded MS65 by NGC. And it looked pretty darn good to me and others too, with some rapid fire bids carrying it to $105,750 which was about where I expected it to land>>
I agree with CRO about the quality and importance of this coin.
CRO: <<... there was lot #30177, a 1786 Maris 14-J which was graded MS65 by NGC but which I personally did not see as a gem ... The price realized of 'only' $25,850 suggested I was not alone in that view.>>
Yes, if pertinent bidders had really graded this as MS-65, then it would have brought much more than 26k. I found this coin to be disappointing as well.
CRO: <<I also liked lot #30026, a VERMONTENSUM Ryder-7 graded ... by NGC at MS62, though this piece had a bit more evident rub on the highpoints ... . On the other hand, it had lovely color, ... and despite the minor complaints still ranked highly among all landscapes I’ve seen. So I was not expecting it to be inexpensive and it wasn’t, selling for $44,062.50
In my article, I emphasized that this coin is excellent, though it has wear. Remarks by CRO seem consistent with my analysis of this coin.
CRO: << lot #30375, the lovely 1787 Nova Eborac graded MS64+ RB by NGC. That was graded about right IMO, but wasn’t especially well struck and had a slightly distracting clip, neither of which seemed to have any effect at all on the price as it rocketed to $55,812.50:>>
I interviewed the buyer, who is quoted in my review. He and I agree that this is a fabulous coin. It was better struck than some others that have received high grades from the PCGS or the NGC. Indeed, a 65RB certification would be fair. The originality, surface quality and eye appeal are great. This is just an amazing coin.
CRO: <<lot #30380, the 1787 George Clinton Cent in an ambitious NGC MS63 holder>>
Did anyone else challenge the 63 grade? What was wrong with it?
Like many early copper pieces, it has been oiled and brushed, though I have seen certified 65 and even "66" grade large cents that have been as well. This pattern has no significant scratches and hardly any contact marks, plus a neat overall look. I think it would be likely to cross, if submitted to the PCGS, though it is particularly hard to predict how pre-1793 coppers will be interpreted by TPGs.
The Fabulous Eric P. Newman Collection, part 11: Auction Results for pre-1793 coins, patterns and tokens
<< <i>CRO: <<very reasonable $94,000>>
How is this amount so reasonable for an "AU-58" 1773/74 Virginia Pattern in silver? The Ford piece is reportedly a GEM and brought $115k not that long ago. The Newman piece is somewhat dull, has very noticeable wear, and has many contact marks on the face. I take the 94k result to be strong. Besides, this is an obscure pattern that few people have really thought much about. It is not needed for a set. >>
The Ford coin sold in January of 2005, which was 9+ years ago. I consider that to be a long time in the coin market. The coin was lovely. It was also raw, and sold in an auction with little or no internet participation. The buyer that day was Anthony Terranova on behalf of Colonial Williamsburg. Had the coin been for resale, it would have changed hands instantly after the sale for well above the auction price. I know. I was there and there were two people who wanted to buy it.
If that coin came to market today, in a 64 or 65 holder (which is about what I would expect), I would suggest that it would bring a dramatically higher price. I would certainly pay much more for it myself.
Just as a comparison, in that same session a pair of St. Patrick's Farthings in silver which would be called AU today brought $13,800 and $17,250, which is, very conservatively, 1/2 or perhaps 1/3 the price they would bring today. Most other pieces in that Ford sale are worth dramatically more today than they were then.
So, I don't think that the 115K you cited is relevant as an indicator of the current value of the Ford piece.
As another point of reference, the only other Virginia Shilling offered publicly in the last several decades was the piece in Bill Anton's February 2005 Numismatist ad priced at $265,000. And while that does not mean that that was an indicator of true value, that coin is now in strong hands.
At the end of the day, the Newman Virginia Shilling was the only one likely to be available for some time, and while you may describe it as "not needed for a set", I would suggest that for those who feel differently this was possibly the only chance to buy one for a very long time. Which is why I thought it would sell for more.
<< <i>CRO: << lot #30375, the lovely 1787 Nova Eborac graded MS64+ RB by NGC. That was graded about right IMO, but wasn’t especially well struck and had a slightly distracting clip, neither of which seemed to have any effect at all on the price as it rocketed to $55,812.50:>>
I interviewed the buyer, who is quoted in my review. He and I agree that this is a fabulous coin. It was better struck than some others that have received high grades from the PCGS or the NGC. Indeed, a 65RB certification would be fair. The originality, surface quality and eye appeal are great. This is just an amazing coin. >>
I agree this was a lovely coin, and I tried very hard to buy it myself, but the strike IMO was average at best as illustrated in this comparison with a better struck piece:
<< <i>CRO: <<lot #30380, the 1787 George Clinton Cent in an ambitious NGC MS63 holder>>
Did anyone else challenge the 63 grade? >>
All of the specialist dealers in this area that I spoke to as well as the actual buyer of the coin saw it about as I did. I would have expected it to grade 58 / 62 on technical merits, but realistically any great rarity like this is usually given a little bump.
Coin Rarities Online
Please understand I mean no offense, it's just when I read your opening sentence in your reply to John, it seems like you feel you don't get the attention and maybe respect that you think you deserve. Perhaps I've misinterpreted your comments, and please tell me if I did.
I've read over a hundred of your articles on CoinWeek and when they were on Coin Link. They are very informative. However, they are more akin to reading an encyclopedia - filled with facts and very grammatically correct.
John on the other hand, is one part Stephen King - one part Stephen Colbert. One part Albert Einstein - one part Costello (yes, I know it's Abbot not Albert, but couldn't think of any funny Alberts). The point being, reading one of his articles is more like reading a short story that is both educational and entertaining, all the while doing it in a way that doesn't shout "hey look at me". I am 100% confident that he can write a five page article on how he literally watched paint dry on a Sunday afternoon and I would be riveted until the last page.
Again, I say this not to offend you or question your numismatic knowledge (which is clearly very expansive), but rather as some food for thought on ways to possibly further expand your audience, which I'm sure must already be fairly large.
RKP: CRO <<is one part Stephen King - one part Stephen Colbert. One part Albert Einstein - one part Costello (yes, I know it's Abbot not Albert, but couldn't think of any funny Alberts). The point being, reading one of his articles is more like reading a short story that is both educational and entertaining ... I am 100% confident that he can write a five page article on how he literally watched paint dry on a Sunday afternoon and I would be riveted until the last page.>>
One of my new year’s resolutions was to coin a sense of humor. I have not yet gotten around to it. Hopefully, someday, I will be at least half as funny as CRO.
Seriously, I acknowledge RKP's point that my articles are very serious. People who buy colonials from CRO already know a lot about coins and can pose questions to John on the phone. Indeed, many collectors of colonials and other pre-1793 numismatic items spend a tremendous amount of time doing research.
In contrast, many of the people who spend a lot of money on U.S. coins do not know that much about them and are nervous. Adult beginners and many successful business people do not have much time to do research. They are looking for facts, serious remarks and analytical conclusions in my articles.
I am communicating with a wider audience than CRO. Thousands of CoinWeek readers come across my articles through Google or Yahoo searches. Furthermore, many readers have never met leading coin experts and/or are embarassed to ask questions. They are more interested in learning from my articles than in being entertained in the sense that RKP is suggesting. There are other sources of entertainment on the Internet and people can always watch movies rather than read about coins.
Even so, I appreciate RKP's criticism, which I do find helpful. I am thinking about publishing more easygoing and personal remarks in a different context, perhaps in a blog or e-newsletter. I have always enjoyed reading many of Doug Winter's personal obsevations and I very much like CRO's Road Reports. I agree with RKP in that John's dynamic personality does 'come to life' in his writings.
I disagree with RKP's point that my writings are somehow self-centered. More so than any other coin expert who writes, I feature the comments of others. I have cited John Albanese on innumerable occasions. In my review of this Newman sale of pre-1793 items, I quote Jim McGuigan, Jason Carter, Andy Lustig and John G. In my recent review of the sale of the Riverboat Collection of pioneer gold coins, I cite Charlie Browne at length. Charlie has served as a PCGS grader in four different time periods and has worked as a grader for dealers who spent millions. Matt Kleinsteuber is perhaps the sharpest grader under age 35 and he frequently is cited. I am not implying that I always agree with the experts who I cite. My point here is that I devote much time to including the views of other experts in my writings, so that readers can learn from several grading experts and/or sophisticated connoisseurs.
Plus, in my weekly columns, the spotlight is on collections and on the coins themselves. I do not understand how RKP could think that I am putting a spotlight on myself.
Curiously, CRO (John) seems to put the spotlight on himself. From his writings on the CRO website, we learn about: how much sleep he gets, the exact arrival times of his flights, what food he eats, how many people visit his bourse table on specific days, books he reads, movies he watches ("Taken" with Liam Neeson), his trips to "the gym," efforts he makes to find electical outlets, etc.
Consider the following excerpt from the CRO Road Report of 08/12/13:
CRO: <<And of course I ate a Sloppy Joe, a specialty of this convention center and a surprisingly delicious lunch alternative to their greasy pizza or giant pretzel doused in yellow mustard. If you order one, however, I do strongly recommend eating it with a spoon. ... Followed by some cool show and tell items brought by collectors to the table, more buying, a couple of pretty good sales late in the day and then a nice dinner with a good customer at Gibson's, where the food is excellent, and they have shoe-horned extra tables into every available space (including ours, which was elegantly positioned directly in the middle of a doorway, making it an ideal spot to have a tuna steak during an earthquake if there was one, which of course there was not). Still very nice though and highly recommended.>>
Though funny, I do not see how this passage helps anyone, except the owner of Gibson's. Richard Burdick, another sophisticated source for my articles, also speaks very highly of this restaurant. Is it really that good?
I think it is ok, and expected, for John to use his web site to market himself. It is, after all, his commercial enterprise. Professional journalists, however, follow a different set of ethics than rare coin dealers.
And, I think Gibson's is very good.
EVP
How does one get a hater to stop hating?
I can be reached at evillageprowler@gmail.com
EVP: <<I think it is ok, and expected, for John to use his web site to market himself. It is, after all, his commercial enterprise. >>
It might be my fault that the wording of my previous post (of 05/28) was not accurately interpreted by EVP. I was not criticizing CRO (John). Indeed, I have a great deal of respect for John; he is one of the 'good guys' in the coin business and he has a sophisticated eye for coins. Furthermore, I made clear above that I was delighted to read his commentary on the recent Newman auction and that, for years, I have enjoyed reading his 'Road Reports' in addition to other writings on the CRO website.
I was responding to the constructive criticism of myself put forth by RKP (not EVP). While I think RKP fairly pointed out that my articles on CoinWeek and earlier on CoinLink tend not to be humorous and not to be characterized by aspects of human personalities, one point was very unfair and misleading. RKP seemed to imply, perhaps unintentionally, that my writings about coins are self-centered.
I honestly maintain that my writings about coins are the least self-centered of the writings by any coin expert in the history of coin collecting. Indeed, please read my previous post. I devote much time and effort to seeking out perspectives other than my own. I frequently quote experts and/or newsmakers, including several of the leading graders in the United States, like John Albanese and Charlie Browne. In many instances, I have included opinions with which I very much disagree. My articles are about coins, not about me, though admittedly this present post is about me.
Latin American Collection
I have to say, reasonable people differ about coins and values all the time. We all like different things. I was at the auction too. I lot viewed, bid and bought also. And for what it is worth, I agree with some things and not others that you each had to say. I even was at the Ford sale and remember the Virginia Shilling quite well, before, during, and after it was sold. But we all like different things. Some like rarity, some like color and surface, some like strike......type......mint red ....on and on.... Honestly, I would have enjoyed the articles less if they both said the same thing.
Anyway, I just hope you both keep doing what your doing, continue the great write-ups and I would really hate it if you both ended up writing the same things and having the same views in the future. I like the different perspectives....especially different ones than my own.
Thanks for the great write ups,
novacaesarea